jpd80 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 The niche Ford goes after in class 6 gasoline is quite fickle at the moment, There was word a while back that a few big fleet orders were delayed and Now coming later in the year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Go back and read post #2022. Yes, seems maybe some big fleet orders that were originally scheduled for 2017MY have been pushed back. Waiting to hear if the big shake-up will have an effect on commercial truck........... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Ford Lays Off 130 Workers as Medium-Duty Pickup Demand Slows (AP/Alan Diaz)....LINK Friday, 05 May 2017 10:25 AM Ford Motor Co. has temporarily laid off 130 workers at its plant in Avon Lake, Ohio -- jobs it had hoped to preserve by moving commercial pickup production there from Mexico in 2015. The Dearborn, Michigan-based automaker is taking the plant down to one shift to match output with slower customer demand for its medium-duty pickup trucks. The laid-off employees are expected to return to work this fall when Ford begins building redesigned versions of the models, a spokeswoman said in an emailed statement. Fleet buyers waiting for upgraded truck later in the year? Edited June 22, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 On my way out to the East Coast last week I saw a few truckloads of 650 or 750s that were painted UPS brown. I couldn't get close enough to verify whether they were gas or diesel's, but it looks like UPS is buying some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) On my way out to the East Coast last week I saw a few truckloads of 650 or 750s that were painted UPS brown. I couldn't get close enough to verify whether they were gas or diesel's, but it looks like UPS is buying some. If it is brown, it must be gas. But seriously... UPS operates gasoline fleet so I'm guessing gas. Edited June 22, 2017 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 On my way out to the East Coast last week I saw a few truckloads of 650 or 750s that were painted UPS brown. I couldn't get close enough to verify whether they were gas or diesel's, but it looks like UPS is buying some. There was a picture of a UPS box truck (like a 22 footer) on BigMack months ago. I posted to see if anyone had a recollection or sighing to confirm "gas or diesel" but no answer. good sign that more new ones sighted in transit- How about it-anyone at OAP with info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 There was a picture of a UPS box truck (like a 22 footer) on BigMack months ago. I posted to see if anyone had a recollection or sighing to confirm "gas or diesel" but no answer. good sign that more new ones sighted in transit- How about it-anyone at OAP with info? Just found it-pictured of what I believe is a 650 in Buster Brown colors posted "in service" Oct. 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 Latest HDT mag has Ford print ad showing a beverage tractor trailer combo. Also, apparently that Transport Topics info was for May because HDT has in April Class 6 Ford still at #1 with 1886, Freight at 1599 and Intern'l. at 1262. Class 7 April Ford with 189, Hino with 97. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 First shots of the new GM/International class 4/5 https://www.trucks.com/2017/06/22/spy-shots-first-look-navistargm-medium-duty-work-truck/ Looks like a fiberglass tilt hood which if priced reasonably, should give Ford and Dodge a bit of concern-in particular with fleet customers who run high mileage. Nothing like good access versus leaning over a fender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) First shots of the new GM/International class 4/5 https://www.trucks.com/2017/06/22/spy-shots-first-look-navistargm-medium-duty-work-truck/ Looks like a fiberglass tilt hood which if priced reasonably, should give Ford and Dodge a bit of concern-in particular with fleet customers who run high mileage. Nothing like good access versus leaning over a fender. . If GM/Navistar can build out class 4/5 using an existing GM cab with a tilt nose, so can Ford. I remember the GM Top Kick was a similar tilt nose setup using the cab of the full size van. Ford should use either a Transit cab or, hell, even a Econoline cab with a tilt nose. Remember E-550?? Imagine that with a tilt nose.... . Edited June 28, 2017 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I've always liked the idea of using a tilt nose on these trucks, especially the way the 6.7 PowerStroke is shoehorned in the Super Duties. Sure seems better than removing the cab! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) What engines are they projecting for the GM/Navistar? If it's just the 6.6L Duramax they're basically just claiming their piece of the diesel class 4/5 "pie". Hopefully they're not planning on torturing buyers with the 6.0L gas V8. That engine is already not competitive in 2500/3500. Other than the flip hood, such a truck would be a far cry from the V10 Fords. It wouldn't even really hold a candle to Ram's 6.4 Hemi. Now if they were to resurrect the 8100 vortec and give it the same cam/head upgrades that the 6.0L has benefitted from, they might really shake the market up pretty good. That'd be an honest 475 hp engine with a bottom end torque curve equal or better than the V10 Ford. Edited June 28, 2017 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 What engines are they projecting for the GM/Navistar? If it's just the 6.6L Duramax they're basically just claiming their piece of the diesel class 4/5 "pie". Hopefully they're not planning on torturing buyers with the 6.0L gas V8. That engine is already not competitive in 2500/3500. Other than the flip hood, such a truck would be a far cry from the V10 Fords. It wouldn't even really hold a candle to Ram's 6.4 Hemi. I believe for sure the 6.6 Duramax but doesn't Isuzu have a decent 4 cylinder?? And they for sure will need a gas engine so does that mean the 6.0 is a given.?? I'm sure 7M3 will jump in here as he seems to have good intel on where these GM/"Binder" trucks are headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 . If GM/Navistar can build out class 4/5 using an existing GM cab with a tilt nose, so can Ford. I remember the GM Top Kick was a similar tilt nose setup using the cab of the full size van. Ford should use either a Transit cab or, hell, even a Econoline cab with a tilt nose. Remember E-550?? Imagine that with a tilt nose.... . TT-Back to the question-with 450-550 chassis production now done at OAP is not the case stronger for a new cab structure for 450-750-and then an 850 tandem once it gets a truck work truckncab with higher seating position As for your comment on E-550, dealer friend of mine was pissed when they dropped that as he had made good progress converting class 5 customers to that truck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I believe for sure the 6.6 Duramax but doesn't Isuzu have a decent 4 cylinder?? And they for sure will need a gas engine so does that mean the 6.0 is a given.?? I'm sure 7M3 will jump in here as he seems to have good intel on where these GM/"Binder" trucks are headed. I doubt Isuzu will let their diesel go to a Navistar product. They are direct competitors. Isuzu partners with GM. Navistar partners with GM. Isuzu and Navistar are not partners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Just saw those pictures myself the other day. Don't have any facts, but I hear that the new GM/Navistar not only has a tip hood, it also has straight frame rails and an I beam front axle. Looks like they are building a scaled down class 6 truck like the TopKick/Kodiak and TerraStar. They did announce the diesel option would be the new Duramax 6.6L V-8 along with an Allison automatic standard transmission. A new larger gasoline/CNG/LNG V-8 is rumored to be in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) I doubt Isuzu will let their diesel go to a Navistar product. They are direct competitors. Isuzu partners with GM. Navistar partners with GM. Isuzu and Navistar are not partners. From my understanding, Isuzu is out on the Duramax, and has been for a while. They helped with the original design, but GM took over. Looks like they are building a scaled down class 6 truck like the TopKick/Kodiak and TerraStar. We saw how well that worked with the last batch of GM 5500 trucks. Too heavy not leaving enough payload. Edited June 28, 2017 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 How about it any OAP employees out there with news from Avon Lake? Any activity that indicates 650-750 production will be resumed? You are building 450-550 chassis right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 I just saw the latest figures for Class 6 and Ford is up on top again; I don't know what happened last month. Also, I saw an N-series wrecker at Tommy's garage in Hartford CT sitting out front with an F250/350 wrecker. You don't see them much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Well my Work Truck mag arrived yesterday and with it was a 30 page 2017 Ford Commercial Vehicles flyer. Nicely done AND shocker it covered the complete line -including 650-750 as well as E series cut aways. Also listed a GCWR of 50,000 for 750 and a max GVW of 37,000. This speaks volumes to me about Ford's faith (or lack of) in the 6.7/Torqueshift combo at higher tractor ratings.. They rate a 19,500 GVW 550 with a max GCW of 40,000 yet the 750 with a 14,000 front axle and 26,000 rear available is only given a 10,000 lb increase to 50,000. Time for another diesel and trans option. The 750 COULD be a low cost P & D tractor-but NOT at 50,000lbs IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 The F-750 is fine for what it is. 4-5 yard municipal dump pulling a skid-steer. P&D tractor? I think it's a bit light even for beverage, most beverage tractors I see are DuraStars and I think they are about 65,000#'s GCW. Beers is heavy! The question remains would the added expense of offering a vendor-supplied drivetrain be recouped in increased sales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 The F-750 is fine for what it is. 4-5 yard municipal dump pulling a skid-steer. P&D tractor? I think it's a bit light even for beverage, most beverage tractors I see are DuraStars and I think they are about 65,000#'s GCW. Beers is heavy! The question remains would the added expense of offering a vendor-supplied drivetrain be recouped in increased sales? 7m-you are missing my point-it has all the component specs suitable for up to 37,000lb GVW. In most states 35,000 gvw is max on two axles! The reason it only gets a 50,000 GCW rating is in my opinion a realistic position taken by Ford with respect to not only weight, but wind resistance associated with tractors pulling boxes. The Power Stroke can't handle that-and I doubt that the Power torque trans as well would not stand up to that kind of service.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 But the other question is - Does Ford want to compete in that segment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 But the other question is - Does Ford want to compete in that segment? Ifeg-the 64 dollar question-and I say they are dumb NOT to compete. Is the 750 cab competitive with the International, f'liner and Paccar class 7's? Not really. Is it acceptable? IMO-yes for certain buyers where $$$ is what matters. If we stick to beverage as an example if I have a 750 straight job with a beverage body but on some routes I need the added capacity and want a 27--32' trailer, for sure I want to spec for the potential of 55-65,000 GCW. Is ABF or OD likely to look at Ford? Probably not. But there are plenty of smaller fleets IMO that would. The 750 from an axle, wheel/tire, frame spec can compete right now with everything currently offered . But NOT with the existing power train. In the case I cite, does the buyer want to buy a 750 straight job but then be forced into Brand X for his tractor needs? I don't think so. And to those who will quickly say-the other powertrains will be too expensive, I say Cummins/ Allison/Eaton etc will gladly sell whatever they can. And if those specs are at a bit of a premium to Ford, perhaps Fords low cost of production on the truck can more than offset that premium. But we are probably spinning our wheels because who knows what Mr. Hackett is thinking. Half assed efforts usually don't last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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