New Light & Medium Duty News

[SoonerLS]

Wasn't the "frame"-or lack of one-the issue? Don't Transit cut aways have some sort of boxed sub assembly?

The Transit has, IIRC, a ladder frame, at least aft of the cab. It seems like that was a limiting factor in towing and payload--and why the big E-Series were continued even after the Transit hit production.

[jpd80]

Correct, the lighter construction of Transit makes it a lot more efficient in the lower classes but a strong box frame is needed for the heavy duty cutaways.

[Bob Rosadini]

Correct, the lighter construction of Transit makes it a lot more efficient in the lower classes but a strong box frame is needed for the heavy duty cutaways.

And remember the E-550? It had a beam front axle and leaf springs!

[twintornados]

Correct, the lighter construction of Transit makes it a lot more efficient in the lower classes but a strong box frame is needed for the heavy duty cutaways.

.

Econoline / E-Series does NOT have a boxed frame in ANY of the iterations of the line.....

 

Here is a 2003 E-550 and you can just make out the open "C" channel frame rails...

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by twintornados

[fordmantpw]

Wasn't the E-550 only available for a year or two?

[jpd80]

.

Econoline / E-Series does NOT have a boxed frame in ANY of the iterations of the line.....

 

Here is a 2003 E-550 and you can just make out the open "C" channel frame rails...

 

Wow, those C channels are massive - perfect for upfitters to attach whatever box or tray is required

[Bob Rosadini]

Wasn't the E-550 only available for a year or two?

correct-I believe two

[Joe771476]

Chevy is still having TV ads produced condemning the Ford aluminum bodies. Maybe Ford should create an ad showing the possible rusted rear fender wells in 10 years on a Chevy, and then show a shot of what an F150 will look like in ten years.........the same as it does new! Especially since many states have gone to salt in winter; even their plow trucks are rusting! Hey there's an angle for medium duty sales: Ford should go to aluminum bodied mediums! I'm guessing they plan to anyway. Ford and Hino are close in July Class 7 sales. Ford and Freightliner are neck and neck in Class 6 with Freight ahead in July but Ford ahead YTD. With the amount of Class 7 & 8 trucks Freightliner sells, they can afford to give away the Class 6 trucks, which I believe they are doing!!

[jpd80]

Chevy is still having TV ads produced condemning the Ford aluminum bodies. Maybe Ford should create an ad showing the possible rusted rear fender wells in 10 years on a Chevy, and then show a shot of what an F150 will look like in ten years.........the same as it does new! Especially since many states have gone to salt in winter; even their plow trucks are rusting! Hey there's an angle for medium duty sales: Ford should go to aluminum bodied mediums! I'm guessing they plan to anyway. Ford and Hino are close in July Class 7 sales. Ford and Freightliner are neck and neck in Class 6 with Freight ahead in July but Ford ahead YTD. With the amount of Class 7 & 8 trucks Freightliner sells, they can afford to give away the Class 6 trucks, which I believe they are doing!!

By the looks of it, Chevrolet's ads are having virtually no effect on F Series sales,

those ads are more about convincing GM's buyers to go buy what's now becoming

an outdated truck... before GM eventually goes to aluminum body as well...

 

Quite funny actually.

[Bob Rosadini]

Just checked out North American Commercial Vehicle Show web site-after reading all about F'liner, Navistar etc etc on another truck web site.

 

Looks like Mr Hackett doesn't think commercial trucks are in the playbook.

 

And to those who will say-"Oh-that is a class 8 show", the key word is "commercial"- Hino and Isuzu are there and Daimler has a separate Sprinter site.

[SoonerLS]

Looks like Mr Hackett doesn't think commercial trucks are in the playbook.

In fairness to Hackett, he has much bigger fish to fry right now. I doubt any shows other than NAIAS are even on his radar at the moment.

[Bob Rosadini]

In fairness to Hackett, he has much bigger fish to fry right now. I doubt any shows other than NAIAS are even on his radar at the moment.

I doubt that he has a clue about the commercial vehicle show-my point is perhaps the word has already filtered down. Has OAP resumed production? When you claim to be the gorilla in commercial trucks, how can you NOT have a presence at such a show?

 

And again-its not just the class 8 players that are there- Isuzu-GM's medium duty source- Hino and Sprinter are there.

 

Hope I'm wrong but it speaks volumes to me.

 

And as for Hackett, we shall see how he does at his upcoming press event. Yes he may have done very well at Steelcase. Yes he may have been a good AD. In my opinion he was in the minor leagues and now he is in the World Series. Oh yeah-he spent two days in "autonomous vehicles" at Ford. And of course we all know, anyone with a touch of "autonomous vehicles" experience must be a genius!

 

Or so Silicon Valley says.

[SoonerLS]

If this were something that might affect the whole F-Series line, it'd be something on the CEO's radar, but participating in a show for a niche product would be something handled much farther down the line. Laying their absence at Hackett's feet isn't justified, IMHO.

[Bob Rosadini]

If this were something that might affect the whole F-Series line, it'd be something on the CEO's radar, but participating in a show for a niche product would be something handled much farther down the line. Laying their absence at Hackett's feet isn't justified, IMHO.

LS- as I said.....I doubt that he has a clue about the commercial vehicle show-my point is perhaps the word has already filtered down.

 

And I don't think "commercial trucks"are a niche product. If you are thinking only 650-750 I guess you could make that case. But keep in mind, if the fleet managers of the world are at this show, and say they are looking at class 6,7 and 8, many of them also operate a lot of trucks i the lower classes.

 

Again my point was has the word "filtered down"- HACKETT SETS THE TONE....."forget it boys, we love high ATP 150's, 250's-anything else?- not on the list".

 

HOPE I'M WRONG.

[Bob Rosadini]

Well Hino announced today a big expansion of their W VA plant to begin production next year of a new class 7 as well as a class 8. My guess is the class 8 will be a tandem version of the class 7. Also will have a 9 liter Hino engine.

[7Mary3]

Isuzu is rumored to have a vocational class 8 tandem on the way as well.

[theoldwizard]

Has anyone seen a F750 beverage hauler on the road ?

[rmc523]

Has anyone seen a F750 beverage hauler on the road ?

 

I don't remember if it was a 650 or 750, but I saw one this morning.

[J-150]

Well Hino announced today a big expansion of their W VA plant to begin production next year of a new class 7 as well as a class 8. My guess is the class 8 will be a tandem version of the class 7. Also will have a 9 liter Hino engine.

I wonder when if they will ever be branded as Toyota.

[Bob Rosadini]

Has anyone seen a F750 beverage hauler on the road ?

I have seen a 650 straight job (V-10) with a beverage body-bottled water- the big guys in this neck of woods contiue tostick with International and f'liner

 

I wonder when if they will ever be branded as Toyota.

Doubt it-Hino isestablished IMO

 

Isuzu is rumored to have a vocational class 8 tandem on the way as well.

Would believe that-you don't need an 70,000lb + GVW for all applications but often a 23,000 rear axle rating just won't cut it. I remember in the old days-real old days- ford offered T-700 tandems with a 22,000 lb rear rating!

[Bob Rosadini]

Well in Hackett's dog and pony show today, one of the slides referred to...."moving goods". Perhaps medium duty is not dead after all. Although when you look at Ford "heavy truck" stats, not exactly good numbers. And with Hino stepping up their program, and GM getting back in,

Think about it. You were a power house at one time, and now you watch as Hino and GM are getting ready to eat your lunch!

 

Again-time for another diesel in addition to the Powerstoke/Torqueshift combo and time for a bigger spark motor.

 

Time to pay attention Ford-get with the program or get out. And yes I read all the comments on engineering cost containment. I still say the changes I'm referring to are chump change.

[bzcat]

Medium duty definitely not dead but the question is how it fits in with Ford's global plan.

 

Ford has medium and heavy duty truck partnership with Otosan in Turkey. The technology and truck platforms from Ford Otosan are now being used in JMC in China. JMC is controlled by Ford but still partially owned by Jiangling.

 

So the big global picture for Ford is clear on medium and heavy duty on the Otosan/JMC side. What to do with North America long term is an open question. Our preference for conventional rather than cab forward trucks means there is no product compatibility and very little synergy.

Edited October 4, 2017 by bzcat

[7Mary3]

I think Ford is right to concentrate on class 2-5 commercial in the domestic market, and their approach to class 6/7 is likely profitable at the level they are participating.

 

As for overseas truck operations, they are JV's with little synergy with our market as bzcat pointed out. As long as they are profitable great, but they can be looked at as non-core assets.

[Bob Rosadini]

Medium duty definitely not dead but the question is how it fits in with Ford's global plan.

 

Ford has medium and heavy duty truck partnership with Otosan in Turkey. The technology and truck platforms from Ford Otosan are now being used in JMC in China. JMC is controlled by Ford but still partially owned by Jiangling.

 

So the big global picture for Ford is clear on medium and heavy duty on the Otosan/JMC side. What to do with North America long term is an open question. Our preference for conventional rather than cab forward trucks means there is no product compatibility and very little synergy.

Well Bzcat, hope your ."medium duty is not dead" comment is correct.

 

In addition to China, I believe Otosan is also involved in marketing heavy trucks in Russia as well. As for the US preference for conventionals, remember when virtually every class 7 and 8 US builder offered an LCF? And that had nothing to do with bridge formula issues. I do believe their popularity was based simply on a shorter BBC that allowed for a bigger box/platform in straight job applications as well as better maneuverability.

 

Anyone have any clue on what led to their demise? My bet would be lower first cost of conventionals. But having said that, it seems to me LCFs are making a comeback. Chevrolet will be there in class 5 with Chevy badged Isuzus, and Isuzu is back with their own class 6. And I have heard that the new Hino class 8 will be an LCF with a class 7 version to compliment the Hino conventionals

 

So with that in mind, and in addition to the Otosan effort, Ford SA appears to be going strong with the Cargo variants in Brazil that I believe cover our class 5-8. But again looking at Ford's US performance, I believe it is something less than impressive-and IMO for the reasons I have previously stated.

 

I think Ford is right to concentrate on class 2-5 commercial in the domestic market, and their approach to class 6/7 is likely profitable at the level they are participating.

 

As for overseas truck operations, they are JV's with little synergy with our market as bzcat pointed out. As long as they are profitable great, but they can be looked at as non-core assets.

I must say you appear to look at Ford one way on this subject, but many of your previous posts seem to be looking forward to GM's reputed return to medium duty. So its not a good idea for Ford, but a good Idea for GM?

 

And again, I have only been suggesting that Ford could very easily capture additional medium duty sales-in particular in class 7-if they offered a better power train option beyond the Powerstroke/Torqueshift combo. And when someone says ..."too expensive to engineer/produce", I say BS. The chassis isn't a lot different than the 2000 Cautilan 750 or the Bluediamond 4400 International chassis.

 

I look at the utility market as the best proof of that. There are plenty of heavy class 7 Bluediamond bucket trucks/polecats in service here in New England. OAP 750's? Haven't seen one. I frequently have commented on the heavy volume that goes through a nearby Altech operation. Went by there yesterday and the backlog continues to grow- all kinds of 450/550 Fords. But the big trucks? All F'liners and Internationals with an few Petes thrown in. And don't blame the absence of class 7 Fords on the cab. It was good enough in the Bluediamond era for that application . That says to me the only issue is power train choice-or lack of one.

 

Oh and you referenced the term .."non core assets". I thought for sure Hackett would be waving that flag and given Fords volume, class 6 and 7 would be gone. But as I said-the "moving goods" reference perhaps offers some hope.

[7Mary3]

I must say you appear to look at Ford one way on this subject, but many of your previous posts seem to be looking forward to GM's reputed return to medium duty. So its not a good idea for Ford, but a good Idea for GM?

 

And you referenced the term .."non core assets". I thought for sure Hackett would be waving that flag and given Fords volume, class 6 and 7 would be gone. But as I said-the "moving goods" reference perhaps offers some hope.

 

Keep in mind GM's return to medium duty is class 4/5 trucks co-developed with Navistar, and selling Isuzu LCF's, one model of which is a class 6. No class 7 or 8. And when the Navistar JV trucks are introduced, they will have rough parity with Ford's offerings, only difference being Ford will have class 6/7 conventionals and GM will have class 3 through 6 LCF's. So no, I don't think GM ought to do something substantially different than what Ford is currently doing. I don't expect GM to go any deeper in medium duty than their current plans.

 

Only reason I refer to Ford's overseas truck JV's as non-core assets is because they do not produce product for the U.S. car and light truck market, which I consider to be Ford's core. My understanding is they are profitable.