Camo'ed Navigator caught testing

[FordBuyer]

In fact, call the next MKExplorer the Navigator.

[akirby]

I think they should also do an Aviator but I suspect that may be waiting for the new CD4 CUV platform.

 

A Navigator shares a platform with a vehicle that already sells 500K+ per year. It can be built in the same plants and share a lot of parts with F150 and Expedition.

Ranger is on a bespoke platform with no sharing.

 

A fully equipped Navigator can sell for $60K+.

A Ranger would top out around $30K.

 

They can make 3 times as much profit on a Navigator compared to a Ranger.

 

That said - I wouldn't fault them if they decided to cancel it altogether either.

[Edstock]

So why should Ford spend that kind of money on a dying segment? Why is this dying segment any different than small pickup truck segment?

 

Is it a dying segment? And even if it is a dying segment, can a Lincoln Navigator be profitable within this dying segment that it started?

 

As to why this dying segment is different than (the) small pickup truck segment, compare the prices and margins on a Ranger and a Navigator or a Tacoma/Frontier and a Lexus/Infiniti SUV-mastodon. That's why this segment may or may not be dying, but it sure is different.

[rmc523]

So why should Ford spend that kind of money on a dying segment? Why is this dying segment any different than small pickup truck segment? The few Navigators sold are to Limo companies much like most Rangers were sold to fleet. Who else is going to buy that giant, ponderous, gas eating truck? Better investment would be MKExplorer without distraction of fooling around with dying segment. Let GM have large SUV and small pickup truck market. Maybe a faint case of keeping the Expediton, but no way that abomination called Navigator.

 

Or you could have both an MKExplorer and Navigator??

[tbone]

There are people that want to buy Expeditions and Navigators, but Ford hasn't given them a compelling reason to purchase them. I had a 2007 Expedition and it was a great vehicle, however I'm not going to buy a 2013 that looks the same as my 07, inside and out. I wont even consider a Navigator for similar reasons but also because the exterior is bland and the interior is terrible. You can knock Infinity all you want about the Q56, but they invested the money into their vehicle and it draws attention. Sure the styling is up for debate, but the interior is very nice, as is the powertrain.

 

I'm in the market now for a new SUV and I want to stay in the Ford camp, but they aren't giving me many options, other than perhaps an Explorer Sport. If I knew there was a decent MCE coming in August I would certainly delay my purchase until then, but I haven't seen or heard anything that tells me this will happen. This has left me in a bit of a dilemma, considering I'm a huge FMC fan.

[jpd80]

So why should Ford spend that kind of money on a dying segment? Why is this dying segment any different than small pickup truck segment?

Because the next Expedition will share an awful lot with F150 and the transaction price

of Expedition and Navigator probably more than justifies the expenditure.

Edited March 27, 2013 by jpd80

[spotdog14]

There are people that want to buy Expeditions and Navigators, but Ford hasn't given them a compelling reason to purchase them. I had a 2007 Expedition and it was a great vehicle, however I'm not going to buy a 2013 that looks the same as my 07, inside and out. I wont even consider a Navigator for similar reasons but also because the exterior is bland and the interior is terrible. You can knock Infinity all you want about the Q56, but they invested the money into their vehicle and it draws attention. Sure the styling is up for debate, but the interior is very nice, as is the powertrain.

 

I'm in the market now for a new SUV and I want to stay in the Ford camp, but they aren't giving me many options, other than perhaps an Explorer Sport. If I knew there was a decent MCE coming in August I would certainly delay my purchase until then, but I haven't seen or heard anything that tells me this will happen. This has left me in a bit of a dilemma, considering I'm a huge FMC fan.

 

I completely agree with you, we currently have a 2008 Expedition and it is the exact same as the 2012/13. Why would I want to go out and spend 50k+ on something I can pick up used for less than half the price and it look exactly the same?

[jasonj80]

So why should Ford spend that kind of money on a dying segment? Why is this dying segment any different than small pickup truck segment? The few Navigators sold are to Limo companies much like most Rangers were sold to fleet. Who else is going to buy that giant, ponderous, gas eating truck? Better investment would be MKExplorer without distraction of fooling around with dying segment. Let GM have large SUV and small pickup truck market. Maybe a faint case of keeping the Expedition, but no way that abomination called Navigator.

 

Dying Segment? It is the new ultra Luxury segment. MB sold more GL's than they sold S-Classes. If Lincoln wants to change perceptions about the brand it needs a home run on the Navigator.

[akirby]

It's definitely much much smaller than it used to be but I think it's holding pretty steady for now.

[PREMiERdrum]

It's definitely much much smaller than it used to be but I think it's holding pretty steady for now.

 

And, as I reported when the new Expedition/Navigator were given the greenlight last year, Ford brass senses some weaknesses in the upcoming GM efforts that they have every intention of exploiting.

[rmc523]

And, as I reported when the new Expedition/Navigator were given the greenlight last year, Ford brass senses some weaknesses in the upcoming GM efforts that they have every intention of exploiting.

 

I still haven't figured out why the GM SUVs do so well??

[PREMiERdrum]

I still haven't figured out why the GM SUVs do so well??

 

Because they have a longer history, a solid fanbase, and they've never given customers many reasons to look elsewhere.

[NickF1011]

and they've never given customers many reasons to look elsewhere.

 

I think more accurately, it's because their competition has never given them many reasons to look elsewhere. It's not like the GMT900 SUVs are some sort of earth-shatteringly good and innovative product.

[PREMiERdrum]

I think more accurately, it's because their competition has never given them many reasons to look elsewhere. It's not like the GMT900 SUVs are some sort of earth-shatteringly good and innovative product.

 

Yeah, besides reliability the GMT900's were mediocre to good in most areas, but the competition never really gave them a fight.

[NLPRacing]

Yeah, besides reliability the GMT900's were mediocre to good in most areas, but the competition never really gave them a fight.

 

In my unscientific polling of other parents that drive Tahoes, Yukons, Suburbans, etc., the women are the one's that usually pick out their own vehicle and they say they chose the GM SUV's due to them being "prettier". Those that actually use the 3rd row usually opt for the Expedition (if they're getting an SUV, otherwise, they get a minivan). But, most Moms that drive these big SUV's usually only have 1 or 2 kids and that 3rd row never gets used. One of our friends traded her Yukon in on an Acadia because they were using the third row more & more and the Acadia's third row was more comfortable and easier to access than their Yukon's. Go figure. Hopefully the next Expedition retains the fold flat 3rd row and gets a lot "prettier". Another friend of ours is looking to trade their Yukon XL in on an Expedition EL. They just bought a travel trailer and the Expedition actually has a higher tow rating than their Yukon. And they originally bought the Yukon because it was "pretty".

[akirby]

Don't discount the "I want one of those because my girlfriend has one" factor which goes back to the big embedded base of longtime satisfied owners who have no reason to look elsewhere.

 

Now you could argue that ignorance is bliss, especially when you look at the interiors and features on the older Suburbans and Yukons compared to the Expedition, but it is what it is.

[spotdog14]

In my unscientific polling of other parents that drive Tahoes, Yukons, Suburbans, etc., the women are the one's that usually pick out their own vehicle and they say they chose the GM SUV's due to them being "prettier". Those that actually use the 3rd row usually opt for the Expedition (if they're getting an SUV, otherwise, they get a minivan). But, most Moms that drive these big SUV's usually only have 1 or 2 kids and that 3rd row never gets used. One of our friends traded her Yukon in on an Acadia because they were using the third row more & more and the Acadia's third row was more comfortable and easier to access than their Yukon's. Go figure. Hopefully the next Expedition retains the fold flat 3rd row and gets a lot "prettier". Another friend of ours is looking to trade their Yukon XL in on an Expedition EL. They just bought a travel trailer and the Expedition actually has a higher tow rating than their Yukon. And they originally bought the Yukon because it was "pretty".

 

This is very true. I look at my wife, she wanted a Jeep Commander because she was a long time Jeep driver. I said well why do you want it.... "because it has the third row" so I said ok lets look at the competition. We looked at a Tahoe, Expedition and Commander. The Jeep didn't even last the entire test drive it was just bad quality. So we moved on to the Tahoe and Expedition, she hated the fact that the seats in the back didn't fold flat so we have a 2008 Expedition Limited that we love. We can load up the three dogs, kid and head up north without a problem.

 

But the reason she wanted a Tahoe was because one of her friends had one.

[akirby]

But the reason she wanted a Tahoe was because one of her friends had one.

 

Bingo! That's exactly what I'm talking about. Guys tend to want something unique and different from what their friends drive. Women tend to want whatever their girlfriends have.

 

When it was time to replace our Explorer the Expedition had just come out. I tried to get my wife to look at one but she said "it's too big! No way I want to drive something that big!". So we got a new Explorer. 2 years later her petite girlfriend got one and the next thing I hear is "how much are those?". So we ended up getting the Expedition 2 years after we bought the Explorer. And I managed to get in a few "I told you sos" on the sly without getting slapped.

[rprobst]

And I managed to get in a few "I told you sos" on the sly without getting slapped.

That's brave.

[akirby]

That's brave.

 

On second thought - maybe I never actually said that out loud.