Lincoln Studying What New Models to Bring Out Next

[NickF1011]

The issue is that for the VAST majority of people a Sonata (or even an Elantra) is all they really want.

Well, of course. That's why they don't (and surely aren't expecting to) sell 25,000 Equus's a month.

[Deanh]

Well obviously the test drives need to be scheduled. What happens when 10 people walk into the showroom at the same time? Some of them wait. At least if you're at home waiting you can go do something else. But really, what are the odds of 10 people, let alone more than one or two, wanting to test drive an Equus at the same time? I see it as a pretty cheap way to do something a little extra for a potential customer.

I dont veiw that kind of customer service with any type of WOW factor....most dealers, regardless of manufacturer are quite happy to do the same given reason to loyal customers...the only weakness ( regarding test drives ) is having 10 dealers within a 20 mile radius, I dont think Genesis has the same populace so they would be a lot happier to offer a test drive to a shopper...after all, if Im one of 10 ford dealers why would I do all the groundwork when ultimately someones just going to shop me anyways......( hopefully that makes sense ).

[Deanh]

The issue is that for the VAST majority of people a Sonata (or even an Elantra) is all they really want.

 

Once you start getting past the say the 30K mark for a car...you're starting to cater to people who want some cache to go along with the car they are buying. That means people are going to want to get an Audi, BMW, etc because they have name recognition.

 

Its more or less like this...you can get a purse from Target for say $50 bucks or goto the mall and get a fancy Coach bag for $350 that does the same thing or might be physically smaller then a similar bag from Target. But that bag from the Coach store has more cache then one from Target....

 

Seems more like Luxury is about creating aspirations than actual "luxury"

so "cache" is now "luxury"....should I add "image", "vanity" and "ego"....that said, I DO have a weakness for Watches....

[silvrsvt]

Well, of course. That's why they don't (and surely aren't expecting to) sell 25,000 Equus's a month.

 

But at the sametime, Hyundai still has to make a business case to build it or sell it in the USA....its not like they are immune to factors at play here.

 

Thus all the arguments about why Ford hasn't done a RWD sedan, which would sell roughy in the same # as an Equus or Genesis sedan.

[silvrsvt]

so "cache" is now "luxury"....should I add "image", "vanity" and "ego"....that said, I DO have a weakness for Watches....

 

You can apply that to just about anything you buy....cars are no different then say buying a can of Peas and Carrots from the local grocery store vs Whole Foods Market (or whole paycheck market from what I've heard! LOL)

[Deanh]

You can apply that to just about anything you buy....cars are no different then say buying a can of Peas and Carrots from the local grocery store vs Whole Foods Market (or whole paycheck market from what I've heard! LOL)

should we add the word "Organic"?....lol

[papilgee4evaeva]

should we add the word "Organic"?....lol

 

Meh... for me, if it's biodegradable, it's organic.

 

(I've seen "organic water." That's a travesty in the name of the natural sciences.)

[Edstock]

should we add the word "Organic"?....lol

 

Probably. Check how much of any Lincoln is recyclable, natural materials, besides the metal.

[BrewfanGRB]

All your opinion, of course. But, no, none of us have seen the production MKC yet. From what we have seen of it, I think it's far more striking than the MKZ, particularly in the side sculping. And from what I recall, you weren't exactly a huge fan of the Escape at first either, so of course you're not going to like the MKC as much.

 

I completely agree. I personally think the MKC is a better and more "stand out" design than the MKZ. I like the Z, but there's just...something...about the nose I can't get excited about. I like how you pointed out the side sculpting on the C. It really highlight the "kinetic" aspect of this design and assuming it largely carries over to production, it will be great to see. But again, it's personal taste. I couldn't care less if the Z sold like gangbusters despite my not being entirely sold on it, because that's good for Ford.

 

And no, Borg, we don't "know what it looks like", so you can stop that anytime.

[BrewfanGRB]

I'm not saying it has to be, but it's still riding on a cheaper components and materials that do limit it's competitive reach.

 

There are a million small factors in designing and engineering a luxury car that Lincoln just can't circumvent until they are on their own.

 

Oh, FFS. That's so ridiculous it makes you look like you don't even know what you're talking about. (Even if you don't know the difference between a contraction and a possessive).

 

Show me where "cheaper MATERIALS" are being pulled from a Ford and used in a Lincoln. That's a cost choice, not a function of engineering. You KNOW higher quality leather and other materials ARE used in a Lincoln compared to a similar Ford. And even if the materials ARE the same, that's not because the Z is an re-done Fusion. That's a choice they've made to control costs and sale price. To bring that up as if it's caused by the cars being cousins is you simply being obtuse.

 

As for "components"--you're arguing what? That a different, more expensive window switch should be used for the sake of it being different and more expensive? Wow.

[Hugh]

Probably. Check how much of any Lincoln is recyclable, natural materials, besides the metal.

Recycled components are common-place in the auto industry. If it still works, it will be re assembled where possible. For example, You don't throw away a steering wheel turn signal component (the assembly under the column covering) just because it's been in a car already.

[Biker16]

That's your opinion. No proof, no links no nothing. What we have here is a brain-fart.

 

Lincoln product is vertical: the MKS is more expensive than the MKZ, the Navigator more expensive than the MKX and the new MKC will probably be less expensive than the MKX. THat's vertical for ya. Capisce?

 

?

you obviously are not following me.

 

So let me be more specific.

 

Lincoln products are generally thought to be engineered along side their ford product brethren to reduce costs, I.E. the fusion and MKZ were engineered together with Lincoln design on top of a shared architecture, same floorpan, electrical system, drivetrains, mechanical, etc all the way down to the switchgear which may or may not be painted differently for the Lincoln vs the ford. Basically the commonality between both cars not between other cars within brands from which they are sold.

 

Going forward with all Lincolns moving to EUCD derivatives there is an opportunity to move to a Lincoln specific 14in steering wheel that would be 100% mechanically and electrically compatible with ford platforms but 100% Lincoln designed and with a unique Lincoln feel, that is shared with all Lincolns on the EUCD architecture and not shared with a single ford model, shared vertically within in the Lincoln brand, and not laterally with other ford products. This could be extended to include stalks, buttons, pedals, ICs, LCD screens and infotainment systems. With Lincoln focusing on delivering iconic, unique and custom components that would be mechanically ford, but functionally Lincoln.

 

Vertically means sharing with other products within the brand

Laterally means sharing with products co-developed with that product, regardless of brand.

 

 

If you think is would be impossible to develop a unique version of ford infotainment systems for Lincoln, I ask how many skins are available for Google chrome right now? A Lincoln skin could have different lconetry and fonts form ford while maintaining a common architecture with ford.

[Biker16]

But at the sametime, Hyundai still has to make a business case to build it or sell it in the USA....its not like they are immune to factors at play here.

 

Thus all the arguments about why Ford hasn't done a RWD sedan, which would sell roughy in the same # as an Equus or Genesis sedan.

 

At what point does Ford's profit stop being considered sound business and begins to be profiting from lack of investment.

 

If Toyota, Hyundai, and nisssn can do what for isn't doing and ford pleads poverty when the concept of a GRWD?

 

I'd like to see real investment from ford in platforms that can make Lincoln and ford better.

[Hugh]

Perhaps maybe Lincoln can move from steel parts to aluminum in the suspension. Maybe future interiors will not have a passing resemblance to the Ford. I will say AUDI and VW are different enough however, Lexus and Toyota are not.

[Hugh]

At what point does Ford's profit stop being considered sound business and begins to be profiting from lack of investment.

 

If Toyota, Hyundai, and nisssn can do what for isn't doing and ford pleads poverty when the concept of a GRWD?

 

I'd like to see real investment from ford in platforms that can make Lincoln and ford better.

One major reason I think is the size of the corporations themselves and the industry they can muster. Take Hyundai for example, they don't just build cars. I think some of the monies from ship-building can be moved to the car section. Perhaps that's a reason they can afford a luxury division. Toyota output far exceeds Ford however, I feel Lincoln is in where Ford was in 2005-6. Ford really started separating Lincoln last year. I would say the case is happening right in front of you. If it's lack of interest or investment, they are sure being pound-foolish with what they are doing now.

[rmc523]

?

you obviously are not following me.

 

So let me be more specific.

 

Lincoln products are generally thought to be engineered along side their ford product brethren to reduce costs, I.E. the fusion and MKZ were engineered together with Lincoln design on top of a shared architecture, same floorpan, electrical system, drivetrains, mechanical, etc all the way down to the switchgear which may or may not be painted differently for the Lincoln vs the ford. Basically the commonality between both cars not between other cars within brands from which they are sold.

 

Going forward with all Lincolns moving to EUCD derivatives there is an opportunity to move to a Lincoln specific 14in steering wheel that would be 100% mechanically and electrically compatible with ford platforms but 100% Lincoln designed and with a unique Lincoln feel, that is shared with all Lincolns on the EUCD architecture and not shared with a single ford model, shared vertically within in the Lincoln brand, and not laterally with other ford products. This could be extended to include stalks, buttons, pedals, ICs, LCD screens and infotainment systems. With Lincoln focusing on delivering iconic, unique and custom components that would be mechanically ford, but functionally Lincoln.

 

Vertically means sharing with other products within the brand

Laterally means sharing with products co-developed with that product, regardless of brand.

 

 

If you think is would be impossible to develop a unique version of ford infotainment systems for Lincoln, I ask how many skins are available for Google chrome right now? A Lincoln skin could have different lconetry and fonts form ford while maintaining a common architecture with ford.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, look at the MKZ and MKC (albeit concept, but you could look at the MKZ concept if you want), you'll see they are (or will be) sharing things vertically within the brand.

 

At what point does Ford's profit stop being considered sound business and begins to be profiting from lack of investment.

 

If Toyota, Hyundai, and nisssn can do what for isn't doing and ford pleads poverty when the concept of a GRWD?

 

I'd like to see real investment from ford in platforms that can make Lincoln and ford better.

 

So platforms like CD4 (a platform that can/will sit under a sizeable portion of both brands' lineups) don't make Lincoln and Ford better?

[RichardJensen]

(I've seen "organic water." That's a travesty in the name of the natural sciences.)

 

Maybe it was carbonated.

[RichardJensen]

At what point does Ford's profit stop being considered sound business and begins to be profiting from lack of investment.

 

 

This is your argument, with a slight alteration of principals:

 

 

At what point does Hyundai's profit stop being considered sound business and begins to be profiting from lack of investment.

 

If GM, Ford and Chrysler can build fullsize trucks and Hyundai isn't doing that and pleading poverty?

 

Same exact logic: "If X, Y, and Z can do A, then B should be questioned for not doing A."

 

Maybe Ford should do an RWD platform, but your argument in favor of it, to put it mildly, is not good.

 

And I'm inclined to doubt the value of an RWD platform, because I haven't seen a single logical argument in favor of it.

 

Plenty of people saying that it would be a 'halo' car, and 'add cachet', without regard toward the failure of similar experiments at Infiniti and Cadillac.

 

Some people don't even bother to put logic into their arguments. They just assert them as though what makes sense to them is self-evidently true and in need of no further support.

Edited June 20, 2013 by RichardJensen

[papilgee4evaeva]

Perhaps maybe Lincoln can move from steel parts to aluminum in the suspension. Maybe future interiors will not have a passing resemblance to the Ford. I will say AUDI and VW are different enough however, Lexus and Toyota are not.

 

You've got the three RWD sedans and the LFA, and then... everything else shares with Toyota, from simply sharing the platform (CT Hybrid ~ Corolla) to being a blatant rebadge (LX570 ~ Land Cruiser).

 

Yet they get a pass... a Toyopass, I call it.

[silvrsvt]

Some people don't even bother to put logic into their arguments. They just assert them as though what makes sense to them is self-evidently true and in need of no further support.

 

 

I think you summed up GM's RWD planning for the past 10 years or so

 

 

[jpd80]

I think you summed up GM's RWD planning for the past 10 years or so

Well, I'm calling you out on that one,

how dare you use GM, RWD and Planning in one sentence

when at least two of the three terms are mutually exclusive...

Edited June 21, 2013 by jpd80

[2b2]

Well, I'm calling you out on that one,

how dare you use GM, RWD and Planning in one sentence

when at least two of the three terms are mutually exclusive...

 

Edited June 21, 2013 by 2b2