Deanh Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Yesterday's issues? So someone hasn't come to this forum and reported an issue in the last week or month. Excellent, hope that trend continues. But that does not mean owners are not having continued quality issues. I want to agree with you and Nick, as I really like the MKZ. But based off the many recent vehicle launches and the initial quality issues these vehicles have had and the time it's take to resolve (if resolved), I am skeptical. Im not defending as the car I saw was pretty badly in need of adjustment, thet Fusion hood is a pretty complex stamping, HOWEVER, it was one car amoungst the 30 or so we have on the lot...it will obviously be adjusted before delivery. So I guess my question is, why arent the dealers "dealing" with the fit finish issues ( that said there shouldnt be any at this stage of the game either ) Edited October 10, 2013 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 At least they are coming in the door in the first place. Previously, buyers weren't even coming into Lincoln showrooms to see the crappy products at all. Sure they are getting to the door, all fine and dandy. Any new flashy product can. The MKZ to me is a beautiful design and believe that is what attracts the buyers. And as you stated, Lincolns products of recent haven't had much of any style to attract those buyers. But as with other vehicles, if all the vehicle has is style, problems and no substance, then owners won't be back for another. So again, I'm rooting for the MKZ, just a shady outlook as of now IMO. So I guess my question is, why arent the dealers "dealing" with the fit finish issues ( that said there shouldnt be any at this stage of the game either ) My big question too! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I'm rooting for the MKZ, just a shady outlook as of now IMO. Naturally, you are also concerned about the ability of Audi to succeed despite its well documented reliability issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying quality problems don't exist with the MKZ, I just don't believe the problems are as widespread as some may think. Ford is working Hermosillo so hard and has changing everything, so some of the past comfort margins have been reduced to increase profit margins. It's all about staying vigilant and on top of looming issues, hopefully adding production to FRAP will ease Hermosillo's work load a touch and allow more time to build those very profitable MKZs. Edited October 10, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Naturally, you are also concerned about the ability of Audi to succeed despite its well documented reliability issues. Truthfully, Audi's are beautiful products, but personally would never own one because of their extensive history of reliability issues. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying quality problems don't exist with the MKZ, I just don't believe the problems are as widespread as some may think. That I can agree with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I saw the ad, but it didn't show any of the cars and their answers? Maybe Lincoln decided against showing the Lexus last minute. It was a pretty lame commercial. It showed the people asking questions to the camera with nothing answering and at the end they said, "so Lincoln has all these". Not very good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Truthfully, Audi's are beautiful products, but personally would never own one because of their extensive history of reliability issues. That's not a direct answer. You're concerned about the MKZ, based on impossible to quantify reports of launch issues, but you have no worries for Audi, which has been plagued with reliability issues for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 That's not a direct answer. You're concerned about the MKZ, based on impossible to quantify reports of launch issues, but you have no worries for Audi, which has been plagued with reliability issues for years. What are Audi's sales figures, whether you count US or global. I would have to say they have been around the block enough and enough product volume to survive these issues. This is much different that Lincoln, which is attempting to rebuild its products and reputation in a sense. So if Lincoln can start selling at the Audi levels, with reliability issues, more power to them. Just wouldn't hold my breath, that they would be nearly as successful as Audi with said issues. People look at Audi and assume German, good car and dismiss the flaws. Lincoln can't do that as people have a much different opinion and view of American vehicles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 they have been around the block enough and enough product volume to survive these issues Have these issues prevented volume growth? No? Then what's the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Have these issues prevented volume growth? No? Then what's the difference? And as stated, these problems aren't concerning me right now, as the MKZ is the gotta have it product. The concern is, will these owners re-up or purchase another Lincoln product when it's time to, especially if they've dealt with many of the various reported fit/finish/quality issues? Again selling one vehicle, that's nice. Selling a person multiple vehicles or turning them into a lifetime Lincoln buyers is something totally different. Edited October 10, 2013 by V8-X 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 What are Audi's sales figures, whether you count US or global. I would have to say they have been around the block enough and enough product volume to survive these issues. This is much different that Lincoln, which is attempting to rebuild its products and reputation in a sense. So if Lincoln can start selling at the Audi levels, with reliability issues, more power to them. Just wouldn't hold my breath, that they would be nearly as successful as Audi with said issues. People look at Audi and assume German, good car and dismiss the flaws. Lincoln can't do that as people have a much different opinion and view of American vehicles. V8...the Z has had reliability issues?...havent heard of any and the Fusion has been fine, what were the issues?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 will these owners re-up or purchase another Lincoln product when it's time to, especially if they've dealt with many of the various reported fit/finish/quality issues? Why wouldn't the majority of them re-up with Lincoln? If the majority of Audi purchasers are not put-off by worse and more long-standing reliability issues, despite the availability of other, higher quality makes both German (Mercedes, BMW) and elsewhere (Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura)? I can't help but think that you are building a hypothetical future scenario out of a poorly established current state in order to have something to be either contrary or negative about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Why wouldn't the majority of them re-up with Lincoln? If the majority of Audi purchasers are not put-off by worse and more long-standing reliability issues, despite the availability of other, higher quality makes both German (Mercedes, BMW) and elsewhere (Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura)? I can't help but think that you are building a hypothetical future scenario out of a poorly established current state in order to have something to be either contrary or negative about. good point Richard....after a z3, a 3 series conv, a 5 series and the Mini....ALL of which had various issues, in the Minis case terminal, I will not be re-visiting a BMW or BMW built car facility in the near future, I think they had their fair share of me re-upping, never learnt my lesson I guess......in fact St Fiesta was ordered yesterday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fou_bleu Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Here's an introductory ad to the campaign: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNqwdGaheCM Lincoln are also posting the following ads on their YouTube page: www.youtube.com/user/lincoln I personally think the execution is brilliant - the setting and environment is right, the music is absolutely spot on, the people are well into the target market (finally!) and it's still somewhat light hearted enough to not get people alienated via smugness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I agree. It's a novel way to tout the MkZ features without being boring. I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 That commercial was better than what I expected. Seems likely to be cut down and matched with regional selling text at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Yep, that was the ad I saw during the game. Seeing it again doesn't seem too bad, but show more of the car!!!! It is beautiful and the more the public see's it the more interest it will create. I know it's tough getting lots of info in a 30 sec ad, but they have to figure more car shots in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Yep, that was the ad I saw during the game. Seeing it again doesn't seem too bad, but show more of the car!!!! It is beautiful and the more the public see's it the more interest it will create. I know it's tough getting lots of info in a 30 sec ad, but they have to figure more car shots in. There are other ads in the series (they were in the "related videos" grid at the end of this one, at least when I watched it); this is just the opening salvo. The descriptions of the ads make them sound kind of weird, but, after watching them, I think they're actually well executed. "So shiny." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Lincoln needs to be careful with this kind of direct comparison while they are still ramping up feature content. There's still a bevy of features offered on a lot of Lexus vehicles that no Lincoln can offer, so they have to be aware of possible counterpunches. Nick I echo your concerns. Do you notice that most , if not all, commercials that have one maker attacking the other (Eg..Ram/Chevy attacking F150) its because they've failed to lead in that segment and are left with simple 'attack' ads in a futile attempt to draw buyers. I think it simply reflects desperation and lack of integrity. I really don't think Lincoln should be using this type of ad as a comparison against the Lexus. I know how these Lexus owners feel about their cars...and , despite the clear fact that Lexus is NOT the advanced leader in product superiority it once was a decade ago...They live on with the "Prestige and Image' it reflects. Lincoln is batting at a bee hive that will only make these obstinate, close minded Lexus owners more of the same. Look at the majority of the Cadillac ads...they simply show the features of the car and not a direct comparison with the competition....! I think its a clear sign of desperation when you call out the brand you are competing with and try to attack it. Lack of integrity..and buyers see it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) Look, when you're the top vehicle in the segment, you don't need to acknowledge the competition. The MKZ is decidedly *not* the top vehicle in the segment. The difference between the F150 & the MKZ is that the F150 is the 'default' choice for a pickup buyer. The MKZ isn't the default choice for a luxury car buyer, therefore, you have to give people a reason to buy your product. And that includes highlighting exclusive features. Edited October 11, 2013 by RichardJensen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Why wouldn't the majority of them re-up with Lincoln? If the majority of Audi purchasers are not put-off by worse and more long-standing reliability issues, despite the availability of other, higher quality makes both German (Mercedes, BMW) and elsewhere (Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura)? I can't help but think that you are building a hypothetical future scenario out of a poorly established current state in order to have something to be either contrary or negative about. I'll bet that the majority of Audis are LEASED, not bought, so the driver has traded for a brand-new one before any major issues have reared their ugly head. It's probably the same with the other German luxury cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Nick I echo your concerns. Do you notice that most , if not all, commercials that have one maker attacking the other (Eg..Ram/Chevy attacking F150) its because they've failed to lead in that segment and are left with simple 'attack' ads in a futile attempt to draw buyers. I think it simply reflects desperation and lack of integrity. I really don't think Lincoln should be using this type of ad as a comparison against the Lexus. I know how these Lexus owners feel about their cars...and , despite the clear fact that Lexus is NOT the advanced leader in product superiority it once was a decade ago...They live on with the "Prestige and Image' it reflects. Lincoln is batting at a bee hive that will only make these obstinate, close minded Lexus owners more of the same. Look at the majority of the Cadillac ads...they simply show the features of the car and not a direct comparison with the competition....! I think its a clear sign of desperation when you call out the brand you are competing with and try to attack it. Lack of integrity..and buyers see it! From back when Lexus was trying to establish itself as a veritable competitor: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 ...And that includes highlighting exclusive features. I think it's great that Lincoln is finally highlighting their exclusive features after decades of seeing Toyota (among others) play up features as though they've invented them (despite the fact that they'd debuted on FoMoCo products years earlier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I think it's great that Lincoln is finally highlighting their exclusive features after decades of seeing Toyota (among others) play up features as though they've invented them (despite the fact that they'd debuted on FoMoCo products years earlier). Well, let's face it. It's been awhile since Lincoln has had any exclusive features to highlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Look, when you're the top vehicle in the segment, you don't need to acknowledge the competition. The MKZ is decidedly *not* the top vehicle in the segment. The difference between the F150 & the MKZ is that the F150 is the 'default' choice for a pickup buyer. The MKZ isn't the default choice for a luxury car buyer, therefore, you have to give people a reason to buy your product. And that includes highlighting exclusive features. I agree about showing reasons to buy it, but why not advertise it without attacking the SPECIFIC competitors , in the same manner as Cadillac has done with their recent ads? To me, you avoid gaining enemies! People buy a Lexus/BMW because it says LEXUS/BMW. Its all about prestige! I just think Lincoln can "highlight exclusive features" like Richard says...but try to avoid mocking the target. (I guess I should wait to see the commercial..but it appears that is the intent) . Lets all agree Lincoln needs a revolution...similar to Cadillac!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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