jpd80 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Still, it's great to see Lincoln and Ford taking chances and advertising the MKZ, I believe it's a product that will respond well to a little bit of push advertising. Hopefully, ads like this one will increase sales in the slower months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 ROTFLMAO. they can't be serious. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Do the headlights turn on automatically in the ES? I know one of my friends was floored when he bought one years ago and it didnt have that feature. Geez, I would hope so! My '05 F150 XLT had that. I never used it, but it had the auto feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Just be aware that you see a handful of complaints compared to the thousands of MKZs sold every month, those problem cars may not be a true reflection of the quality standard the majority of owners experience. We've been round and round with this discussion (maybe not you personally). You can't decipher how many nor how few issues are out there based on forum posts. Just because there are a lot of complaints on forums doesn't mean the problem is wide spread. Just because there are few complaints on forums doesn't mean the issue is small. Not everyone with a problematic vehicle posts on a forum and plenty of people visit forums to brag about their ride. So the 5.4L issues, both seizing into the heads (3V) and being shot of the head (2V) are small issue because people posted their issues on forums. Because certain people and Toyota models experienced SUA and posted it on forums for years until anything was done about is, was a small problem. Just like there are bound to be many many perfectly fine vehicles that don't have issues, there are many many vehicles out there experiencing the issue. So in my opinion, you simply shouldn't discredit the problems as easily as you'd like to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 We've been round and round with this discussion (maybe not you personally). You can't decipher how many nor how few issues are out there based on forum posts. Just because there are a lot of complaints on forums doesn't mean the problem is wide spread. Just because there are few complaints on forums doesn't mean the issue is small. Not everyone with a problematic vehicle posts on a forum and plenty of people visit forums to brag about their ride. So the 5.4L issues, both seizing into the heads (3V) and being shot of the head (2V) are small issue because people posted their issues on forums. Because certain people and Toyota models experienced SUA and posted it on forums for years until anything was done about is, was a small problem. Just like there are bound to be many many perfectly fine vehicles that don't have issues, there are many many vehicles out there experiencing the issue. So in my opinion, you simply shouldn't discredit the problems as easily as you'd like to. from what I understand the issues arent mechanical. more ill fitting trim and the like, which i thought had been corrected....UNTIL I witnessed a Fusion with a hood that was tight on the LH sade and 1/2 an inch on the right....ARG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Do the headlights turn on automatically in the ES? I know one of my friends was floored when he bought one years ago and it didnt have that feature. Geez, I would hope so! My '05 F150 XLT had that. I never used it, but it had the auto feature. So does my '01 Bonneville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 From the sounds of it, that's going to be a lame commercial. At least the commercial will be congruent with the lameness of the car itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Same complaint on our 08 Edge. I think it's just because they don't have the same sensors as the windows, but I'm not sure why. That's weird--every Ford or Lincoln I've owned that had a moon roof ('89 T-Bird SC, '92 SHO, '04 and '06 LSes) had one-touch close. Maybe they had problems with balancing the sensors with the size of the roof; on both of my LSes, I would occasionally have problems getting the moonroof to close from the fully-open position on hot (100*F+) days--it would almost close, then bounce back at the last moment. I'm guessing that they're using feedback through the motor to sense obstructions, and the heat was causing something to expand just enough to increase drag just enough for it to be seen as an obstruction. I can only imagine that would be magnified by the BAMR's mass, so maybe they just went with the "discretion is the better part of valor" idea and skipped it rather than inviting inevitable warranty claims... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 At least the commercial will be congruent with the lameness of the car itself. Troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 At least the commercial will be congruent with the lameness of the car itself. Lameness of the car — aw, you're being churlish. Seems the market disagrees with you, the MKZ seems to be doing rather well, with steady sales growth. Disappointing, but you gotta be you, right? One thing's for certain, though, roughly 3,000 people a month don't think the way you do. Their perception of value is not yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) The MKZ has global open and close (windows/moonroof) and intelligent high beams. The MKZ also has LED headlamps, Lincoln Ride Control and auto-parallel park that I don't think the ES offers at all. Why would a Lexus have Lincoln Ride Control? It is nice to see Lincoln recognizing it's place in the market...even if going after Lexus is a bit optimistic. Edited October 10, 2013 by EBFlex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131009/AUTO0102/310090021/1148/auto01/Lincoln-s-new-ads-get-more-direct BTW, not all months have been 3000+ sales though, athough new leases are very attractively priced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Why would a Lexus have Lincoln Ride Control? It is nice to see Lincoln recognizing it's place in the market...even if going after Lexus is a bit optimistic. The MKZ has an electronically controlled suspension. The ES does not. Better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Lameness of the car — aw, you're being churlish. Seems the market disagrees with you, the MKZ seems to be doing rather well, with steady sales growth. Disappointing, but you gotta be you, right? One thing's for certain, though, roughly 3,000 people a month don't think the way you do. Their perception of value is not yours. And before anyone mentions that "more sales doesn't equal more desirable," let's all remember that a luxury car is, for the majority of buyers, not a "necessity of life" purchase. In this segment for these prices, people buy what they want to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) We've been round and round with this discussion (maybe not you personally). You can't decipher how many nor how few issues are out there based on forum posts. So why keep bringing it up, the issues supposedly with MKZ revolve around quality, not safety - that's the big difference If knowing the actual extent of vehicles effected is that hard, the endless forum chatter of a few disaffected owners begins to sound like everyone who ever bought one....just sayin' Edited October 10, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 ES only has parking sensors -- it will not park itself like the MKZ will. I think only the Lexus with auto park is the LS. so it is. didn't read the fine print. It does have auto headlights though. Geez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) from what I understand the issues arent mechanical. more ill fitting trim and the like, which i thought had been corrected....UNTIL I witnessed a Fusion with a hood that was tight on the LH sade and 1/2 an inch on the right....ARG! And I agree, the problems I've seen are more fit/finish/quality related than anything else. At least the commercial will be congruent with the lameness of the car itself. Well, I personally think the car is attractive, much more so than its sibling the Fusion. But would never consider buying a 1st/2nd model year (of any vehicle), simply due to the growing pains that new models typically experience, which the MKZ is showing to have. So why keep bringing it up, the issues supposedly with MKZ revolve around quality, not safety - that's the big difference If knowing the actual extent of vehicles effected is that hard, the endless forum chatter of a few disaffected owners begins to sound like everyone who ever bought one....just sayin' Where did I say there was a safety issue? I would assume the majority of owners of any vehicle never experience problems with safety related equipment, as most aren't in an accident or situation where the safety features are required. Now keep in mind we are talking about the entry luxury market here, which is a finicky group of buyers who aren't really brand loyal like say a Ford or Chevy buyer. If you are trying to attract Lexus type owners, you have to have a nearly flawless vehicle. Too many fit/finish/quality issues and owners will look at Lincoln as simply another upgraded Ford product. Too many mechanical/safety related issues and that will simply taint their view of Lincoln that much more. Owners who are putting down their hard earned cash are surely welcome to bitch and moan about a vehicle all they like, IMO. We can all love the vehicle, but if owners are having issues, they have justification as to why they are upset. I have no doubt Ford/Lincoln will get these issues under control within a year or two, but for those people who switched over from another brand in the 1st model year and experience a lot of these issues, how many will actually return to a Lincoln dealer for their next ride? It shouldn't be only about selling the person one Lincoln, it should be about selling them multiple Lincolns or making them a Lincoln owner for life. Edited October 10, 2013 by V8-X 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I have no doubt Ford/Lincoln will get these issues under control within a year or two A year or two? Based on the infrequency of complaints I've seen lately, I'd say most of the early issues have already been resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Now keep in mind we are talking about the entry luxury market here, which is a finicky group of buyers who aren't really brand loyal like say a Ford or Chevy buyer. If you are trying to attract Lexus type owners, you have to have a nearly flawless vehicle. Too many fit/finish/quality issues and owners will look at Lincoln as simply another upgraded Ford product. Too many mechanical/safety related issues and that will simply taint their view of Lincoln that much more. Owners who are putting down their hard earned cash are surely welcome to bitch and moan about a vehicle all they like, IMO. We can all love the vehicle, but if owners are having issues, they have justification as to why they are upset. I have no doubt Ford/Lincoln will get these issues under control within a year or two, but for those people who switched over from another brand in the 1st model year and experience a lot of these issues, how many will actually return to a Lincoln dealer for their next ride? It shouldn't be only about selling the person one Lincoln, it should be about selling them multiple Lincolns or making them a Lincoln owner for life. The biggest growth markets for MKZ are southern California and Florida where they are going berserk for hybrids, so much so that Ford is changing the product mix from 20% to 40% of builds and the conquest demographic is Lexus.and Acura. That is whay we're seeing these types of advertisements all ofa sudden, the car is striking accord with those buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) A year or two? Based on the infrequency of complaints I've seen lately, I'd say most of the early issues have already been resolved. Exactly, a lot of the issues discussed are yesterday land, constantly revisiting the past is no indication of the present. Edited October 10, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 A year or two? Based on the infrequency of complaints I've seen lately, I'd say most of the early issues have already been resolved. Maybe they have I can't say. Hopefully they've resolved the fit/finish issues. Each model and manufacturer takes different time frames and approaches. Maybe Ford felt it more important to resolve these problems quicker than some of the problems with other vehicles. The biggest growth markets for MKZ are southern California and Florida where they are going berserk for hybrids, so much so that Ford is changing the product mix from 20% to 40% of builds and the conquest demographic is Lexus.and Acura. That is whay we're seeing these types of advertisements all ofa sudden, the car is striking accord with those buyers. Great, so there is growth in those markets NOW. My point is not about sales today. My point is about future sales. If you are attracting Lexus and Acura buyers now because of your hot new product, that's good and I applaud Ford for that. But if these owners start experiencing the many fit/finish issues that have been reported, which they didn't experience with their former brands, what is the likelihood that they will opt for a Lincoln next time around? That is my main concern, not the current sales because the MKZ is the hot new gotta have it vehicle. It's about the conquest owners experience with the vehicle and how that impression impacts their future purchases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Exactly, a lot of the issues discussed are yesterday land, constantly revisiting the past is no indication of the present. Yesterday's issues? So someone hasn't come to this forum and reported an issue in the last week or month. Excellent, hope that trend continues. But that does not mean owners are not having continued quality issues. I want to agree with you and Nick, as I really like the MKZ. But based off the many recent vehicle launches and the initial quality issues these vehicles have had and the time it's take to resolve (if resolved), I am skeptical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Maybe they have I can't say. Hopefully they've resolved the fit/finish issues. Each model and manufacturer takes different time frames and approaches. Maybe Ford felt it more important to resolve these problems quicker than some of the problems with other vehicles. Great, so there is growth in those markets NOW. My point is not about sales today. My point is about future sales. If you are attracting Lexus and Acura buyers now because of your hot new product, that's good and I applaud Ford for that. But if these owners start experiencing the many fit/finish issues that have been reported, which they didn't experience with their former brands, what is the likelihood that they will opt for a Lincoln next time around? That is my main concern, not the current sales because the MKZ is the hot new gotta have it vehicle. It's about the conquest owners experience with the vehicle and how that impression impacts their future purchases. At least they are coming in the door in the first place. Previously, buyers weren't even coming into Lincoln showrooms to see the crappy products at all. Reminds me of the line from Ferris Bueller's Day Off... Ferris: "Your car's a piece of shit." Cameron: "It's not a piece of shit." Ferris: "It is a piece of shit, but I don't have my own piece of shit so I have to envy yours." I want to agree with you and Nick, as I really like the MKZ. But based off the many recent vehicle launches and the initial quality issues these vehicles have had and the time it's take to resolve (if resolved), I am skeptical. Initial launch problems yes, not really much in the way of long-running, wide-ranging issues though. Edited October 10, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Maybe they have I can't say. Hopefully they've resolved the fit/finish issues. Each model and manufacturer takes different time frames and approaches. Maybe Ford felt it more important to resolve these problems quicker than some of the problems with other vehicles. Great, so there is growth in those markets NOW. My point is not about sales today. My point is about future sales. If you are attracting Lexus and Acura buyers now because of your hot new product, that's good and I applaud Ford for that. But if these owners start experiencing the many fit/finish issues that have been reported, which they didn't experience with their former brands, what is the likelihood that they will opt for a Lincoln next time around? That is my main concern, not the current sales because the MKZ is the hot new gotta have it vehicle. It's about the conquest owners experience with the vehicle and how that impression impacts their future purchases. fit and finish is something you can see on the car BEFORE delivery, if it was an issue we wouldn't be seeing that growth. And again, you are citing forum complaints as many customers, that may not be the case as we discussed previously. If MKZ sales stay up there, my guess is that those quality problems suggested may not be as significant or as wide spread as you imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Yesterday's issues? So someone hasn't come to this forum and reported an issue in the last week or month. Excellent, hope that trend continues. But that does not mean owners are not having continued quality issues. I want to agree with you and Nick, as I really like the MKZ. But based off the many recent vehicle launches and the initial quality issues these vehicles have had and the time it's take to resolve (if resolved), I am skeptical. Yesterday's issues as in your linking with other old dead issues that don't affect the return sales patronage other vehicles and brands you mentioned. People and times move on, suggest you do the same, those supposed quality issues don't appear to be hurting MKZ's growth into new areas where discerning buyers who have owned other luxury brands like Lexus are buying them. All those recent bad launches are now in the past and if you look at MKZ's sales to August/September, it's actually caught up all those bad early months of low supply.compared to 2012 YOY sales - not bad for a car with claimed quality problems.. Edited October 10, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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