theoldwizard Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Having sat on 2008 EXPY at least two years too long anticipating significant changes, now disappoint. Ford an industry leader with cutting edge design of F-150, resources must have been sapped in presenting an mildly updated Expedition. ... DING DING DING We have a winner ! Ford announced that they were hiring a significant amount of "white collar" employees earlier this year. People have forgotten that there was an approximate 30% reduction of salaried employees in 2007. Since then, "natural attrition" has occurred. The problem is, the Detroit 3 are all looking for experienced engineers. Not many available and they want top $$$ which the Detroit 3 are unwilling to pay. With changes/cut in benefits and other items, fewer graduating engineers are interested in working in the "rust and snow belt" ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 ...2016 ish, expect a complete makeover, aluminum maybe?...but until then i dont criticize for Ford NOT pouring resources into what is basically a stop gap. I certainly hope we get a aluminum Expedition for 2017MY, but I agree, we won't see it before then. I'm not certain when the RHD Mustang and Edge will show up, but those are significant engineering efforts and only time will tell it they are worthwhile effort (IMHO, the additional sale will not be worth the cost). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) . With changes/cut in benefits and other items, fewer graduating engineers are interested in working in the "rust and snow belt" ! With modern engineering and IT infrastructures, just how necessary is it anymore for all of those engineers to actually work in the "rust and snow belt"? I'm not certain when the RHD Mustang and Edge will show up, but those are significant engineering efforts and only time will tell it they are worthwhile effort (IMHO, the additional sale will not be worth the cost). Mustang, eh, perhaps -- but I think that vehicle may simply need more volume overall to justify its own platform any way they can get it. I can see Edge doing fairly well in some foreign markets. And all the underlying hardware should already be there for a RHD Edge anyway if it's going to be CD4-based. Edited February 21, 2014 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Pilot Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Re; "throldwizard"....... increased inflection regarding your comment of limited number of engineers for Big 3. Maybe that is why in recent years my personal fleet of vehicles no longer singular brand loyal......read Blue Oval.......but what moves me emotionally and physically. I had really hoped for at least moderately refreshed Expedition exterior in 2015 while awaiting coming aluminum? Expy. Ford already has underpinnings of sophisticated suspension, true fold flat seats, ongoing interiors which GM still playing catchup. Modular 5.4 long in tooth, but many disappointed wonderful NA 5.0 not offered along with puffed V6. GM is rivaling MPG & performance in NA V8's vrs enhanced Ford V6's, without increased maintenance and compromised lifespan of hotter running stressed smaller displacement engines. Costs would not have been significantly more to throw something sexier at exterior. This would have kept me from looking elsewhere for full size SUV. We've had too many that just.....hate that word......look too much alike! When one spends $60k -$70k on utilitarian vehicle one would like to have something inspiring cosmetically even though still the most comfortable full size SUV on market. Wondering if it's in the cards to hope for an aluminum full size offering that is not body on frame? I'm not whining.....just.....there's that word again.......not looking forward to convincing my wife why we need to look elsewhere in replacing her favorite vehicle in our garages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I certainly hope we get a aluminum Expedition for 2017MY, but I agree, we won't see it before then. I'm not certain when the RHD Mustang and Edge will show up, but those are significant engineering efforts and only time will tell it they are worthwhile effort (IMHO, the additional sale will not be worth the cost). well, in terms of the Mustang alone maybe...unless other iterations utilize the Stangs underpinnings....( Lincoln anyone ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmy311 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I find the Expedition better looking than the segment leader... Agree. They ruined the front of the Tahoe. The interior is its only saving grace. Also, unless you get the LTZ (shown here), the Tahoe looks rental grade and very boring outside. I know the Expedition shown is the top shelf trim as well, but I think it will look much better regardless of trim line. I just hope they market it and get the word out that they still DO sell them. I think they have a chance of picking up quite a bit of sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Sort of interesting that the Navigator and Expedition have the exact same engine. It would have made sense to offer the 5.0 in the Expedition as standard and the 3.5 EB in the Navigator as standard, but an option in the Expedition. Oh well I'm guessing they didn't want to spend the money on that since this model probably will only run 2 or 3 years. Edited February 23, 2014 by 2005Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Makes you wonder if an EB or SC v8 is yet to come for Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The refreshed Expedition will be out for only about 20 months. Remember this facelift was to have shown up in 2012 was stopped and restarted. When the program was restarted for such a small time it makes sense only one engine was engineered for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) The refreshed Expedition will be out for only about 20 months. Remember this facelift was to have shown up in 2012 was stopped and restarted. When the program was restarted for such a small time it makes sense only one engine was engineered for it. Exactly, i had to explain to what seemed like half of GMInside news that by the time this Explorer arrives later this year, it will only be around for roughly 18 months, which means the the brand newby wil be a '17... Is it true that the fuel economy boost to roughly 23 mpg will be good enough to beat the new tahoe? If so then boy, aren't the GM fans going to be pissed.... Edited February 23, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 With modern engineering and IT infrastructures, just how necessary is it anymore for all of those engineers to actually work in the "rust and snow belt"? On paper, it is not required nearly as much as before. But in reality, being on the same campus is a big win. Engineers can lunch together or work in the same lab/prototype area and that "bonding" means a lot. The launch of the Fusion/MKZ and the Escape, both designed in EU,were far from "flawless". The post-launch recalls of Escape have left a bitter taste in many management mouths especially when folks in Dearborn grumbled (right or wrong) "We would have never let that happen !" Setting up another "general engineering campus" in a sunshine state would leave a lot of hard feelings with the young folks in Dearborn. They would want complain (rightfully) that those people have a lower cost of living and more good weather (If the weather is bad, who cares if you work another hour or 2 of unpaid OT). If the EU economy doesn't have a drastic turn around in the next 12 months or so, Ford has already said there would be more cuts, and some (more) of them would likely be in engineering. How much longer will they be able to justify 2 engineering centers in EU ? Mustang, eh, perhaps -- but I think that vehicle may simply need more volume overall to justify its own platform any way they can get it. I can see Edge doing fairly well in some foreign markets. And all the underlying hardware should already be there for a RHD Edge anyway if it's going to be CD4-based. Both vehicles "need volume" to justify their existence or at least the existence of the assembly plan they are made at. Edge more so than Mustang now that Fusion is also made at Flat Rock. Flex/MkT appears to be heading toward a quiet death (can't come soon enough) and I have heard of no other product moving into Oakville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Exactly, i had to explain to what seemed like half of GMInside news that by the time this Explorer Expedition arrives later this year, it will only be around for roughly 18 months, which means the the brand newby will be a '17... I assume you meant to say Expedition ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The launch of the Fusion/MKZ and the Escape, both designed in EU,were far from "flawless". I'd pin the issues with Fusion/MKZ and Escape more with the adoption of entirely different engineering practices, not simply the distance between engineering teams. If they were working from the same point from the very beginning instead of Ford NA adapting existing Ford EU architectures and processes it probably would have gone much smoother. Both vehicles "need volume" to justify their existence or at least the existence of the assembly plan they are made at. Edge more so than Mustang now that Fusion is also made at Flat Rock. Flex/MkT appears to be heading toward a quiet death (can't come soon enough) and I have heard of no other product moving into Oakville. Isn't Edge slated to be exported to quite a few more regions soon? Could account for some of that additional volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Isn't Edge slated to be exported to quite a few more regions soon? Could account for some of that additional volume. For that matter, couldn't you throw in China-bound MKX's too? Not saying that'll add a ton of units but it all adds up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 For that matter, couldn't you throw in China-bound MKX's too? Not saying that'll add a ton of units but it all adds up I believe both Edge and MKX are/will be exported to China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I believe both Edge and MKX are/will be exported to China. Exactly. That'll add volume to the plant. Come to think of it, wasn't there talk about us getting the next-gen Galaxy as a sort of Flex replacement? I'd think that could be added to Oakville too, no (CD3-based)? Edited February 24, 2014 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Exactly. That'll add volume to the plant. Come to think of it, wasn't there talk about us getting the next-gen Galaxy as a sort of Flex replacement? I'd think that could be added to Oakville too, no (CD3-based)? Oakville is flex anyway, isn't it? So the platforms wouldn't really matter much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Oakville is flex anyway, isn't it? So the platforms wouldn't really matter much. Guess that's true, but it's still a guess at a potential product that could go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Edge will be exported to at least 20 other countries, maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I believe both Edge and MKX are/will be exported to China. Aren't they being built in Russia? (Edge at least, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Aren't they being built in Russia? (Edge at least, right?) Doesn't sound like it. It was 60 countries, not 20. Feb 13, 2014 | Toronto Ford Selects Canadian Plant to Build All-New Global Utility Vehicle for Export to More Than 60 CountriesFord will build an all-new Edge utility vehicle for global markets at its Oakville Assembly plant, near Toronto, and export to more than 60 countries Adding a new global product at Oakville follows Ford’s C$700 million investment in the plant to make it one of the most competitive and advanced global manufacturing facilities in Canada, while preserving 2,800 jobs Edge Concept, now on display at the Canadian International Auto Show, strongly hints at the technology, dynamic design and premium craftsmanship that will define the next generation of global utility vehicles from Ford Ford of Canada’s Oakville Assembly plant will build the all-new Ford Edge global utility vehicle, shipping it from Canada to more than 60 countries as demand for utility vehicles grows worldwide. The Ford Edge competes in the global utility segment, which grew 13 per cent year over year in 2013. Ford outperformed the segment with 35 per cent growth and more than 1.2 million vehicles sold worldwide, and Edge production surpassed its 1 million vehicle milestone last year. The utility segment in markets outside North America grew 112 per cent in 2013 and is forecast to grow 30 per cent in 2014, with utility sales expected to total approximately 600,000 vehicles this year. “The decision to produce the all-new global Edge in Canada is proof that Canadian manufacturers can compete, and win, globally,” said Dianne Craig, president and CEO, Ford Motor Company of Canada, Ltd. “We’re ready to showcase Oakville Assembly’s commitment to craftmanship and advanced manufacturing to deliver what our global customers want and value -- a high-quality vehicle with class-leading design, fuel efficiency and performance.” Ford announced in September a C$700 million investment at Oakville Assembly to expand the plant’s manufacturing capability to meet surging global demand and preserve more than 2,800 jobs. Oakville Assembly manufactures Ford Edge and Ford Flex, as well as Lincoln MKX and Lincoln MKT. “Oakville is vital to Ford’s global manufacturing system as we prepare to launch more vehicles this year than ever before,” said Joe Hinrichs, Ford president of The Americas. “The Oakville facility will offer world-leading flexibility, enabling us to react quickly and efficiently to shifts in consumer demand here in North America and around the globe.” Ford’s global utility portfolio spans small, medium and large vehicles – from the compact EcoSport to midsize Explorer and full-size Expedition – to fit the needs of consumers around the globe in various life stages. Ford will provide customers with more choices in 2014 as it plans an unprecedented product year launching 23 vehicles globally – 16 in North America, including the all-new global Edge. Visitors to the Canadian International Auto Show will get a glimpse of the new Ford Edge Concept vehicle at the Ford stand, including a preview of automated driving options Ford is developing. These include: Fully assisted parking aid: Automatic parking technology allows for control from inside or outside the vehicle Obstacle avoidance: Automatically steers around an object when the driver does not; if the driver fails to react, the system will automatically steer and brake to avoid a collision Adaptive steering: The next step in steering technology leads to improvements in both low- and high-speed driving situations In addition, Ford Edge Concept features fuel-saving technologies such as Active Grille Shutters, Auto Start-Stop and an innovative air curtain, which manages airflow around the front wheels to enhance aerodynamic efficiency. Edge Concept will be on display at the Ford booth Feb. 14-17, 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Doesn't sound like it. It was 60 countries, not 20. So is this not happening now? Ford EcoSport & Edge in Russia In order to meet the mounting demand in the Russian market, Ford Sollers, the joint venture between Ford Motor Co. (F - Analyst Report) and Sollers, is adding new vehicles to its production lineup in the nation. The company will be producing the Ford EcoSport sport utility vehicle (SUV) at the Naberezhnye Chelny, Tatarstan vehicle assembly plant from 2014. The automaker also announced that it will be manufacturing the Ford Edge crossover SUV in the Ford Sollers assembly plant located at Elabuga, Tatarstan from early 2014. The Naberezhnye Chelny plant is the third manufacturing plant of Ford Sollers in Russia. It will be operational from 2014. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ford-sollers-bolsters-suv-line-up-with-russian-built-ford-ecosport-and-ford-edge-coming-next-year-227655591.html Edited February 24, 2014 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 First OAC, then Elabuga, Tatarstan. Go figure. I guess the Elabugaloids are happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 They might still be making them in Russia in addition to Oakville. Not sure why they'd do that though if Oakville can supply 60 other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) I have a feeling that OAC based Edge will supply Nth America and Asia.. Edited February 25, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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