351cid Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Just throwing this in... HOTROD did a Mustang vs Camaro in the mid 80's. The Mustang kicked the Camaro's ass all around (they hadn't offered the 350 yet) and, get this, the Camaro weighed 300 lbs more. The more things change.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordowner Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 And today they announced the 2016 Camaro will be smaller and built on the Cadillac Platform. It will be interesting to see what happens. How small? And what will it cost. And that means the current Camaro other than the very mild refresh never evolved. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/10/20/chevrolet-camaro-smaller-cadillac-ats-chassis/17599689/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 False akirby. Then define "better than the competition". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 I just want the stock to go up. I hope they sell a boat load of them and the new F150. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 And today they announced the 2016 Camaro will be smaller and built on the Cadillac Platform. It will be interesting to see what happens. How small? And what will it cost. And that means the current Camaro other than the very mild refresh never evolved. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/10/20/chevrolet-camaro-smaller-cadillac-ats-chassis/17599689/ You're not going to see a major leap--there's no low hanging fruit to be had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack219 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Been a very long while since I posted anything on here though I visit every couple of days. I can sit here and say as a fan and multi time consumer of Ford products that I am a little dissapointed in the final results of the 15 Mustang. I expected a loss in weight most notibly as the technology from Ford has become more prevelent and thus cheaper to manufacture. However that isn't the case and it is what it is. Fact is the vehicle drives better than the S197, does a 1/4 mile in the 12's, and a 0-60MPH in about 4.4 seconds for somewhere between $32,000-48,000 depending on your taste. If I bought one I would probably fall somewhere in the middle or just under 40K. Now I'm going to be realistic here with my expectations as a consumer. I will never take my 40K Mustang and balls out on a track, drag strip, or the public road for that matter. I will push it some, drive a little faster through a corner, accelerate heavy now and then, maybe even race the guy in the challenger next to me at the light to the speed limit or a little over lol. My point is I like 90% of people who spend the kind of money for these new cars are not going to ever hit 100% of the cars capabilites and therefore these track comparisons are just for show! If your damn amped about having the absolute best Mustang available then buy a used GT500 or Boss (yes they are for sale out there and it's not for 100,000 either.) I want to drive the car, enjoy the deep sound of the exhaust, have some power at the push of the pedal, but enjoy some refinement in the interior also. My father, old as he may be has a 2009 GT500 that he bought brand new. To this day it only has about 12k on it and when I do drive it, I realize that I CANT DRIVE TO THE CAPABILITIES OF THE CAR IN TOWN ANYHOW. It's cool to have 500HP but I can really only go so fast and drive so hard around town without putting myself or someone else in danger and my 50K dollar car also. Point is guys is that people will buy this car and enjoy it. It looks great and if the performance isn't up to par then people will do what they have always done with Mustangs, UPGRADE THE SHIT OUT OF IT! lol. Hopefully one day soon though Ford will bring aluminum body to the Mustang Edited October 20, 2014 by wolfpack219 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Been a very long while since I posted anything on here though I visit every couple of days. I can sit here and say as a fan and multi time consumer of Ford products that I am a little dissapointed in the final results of the 15 Mustang. I expected a loss in weight most notibly as the technology from Ford has become more prevelent and thus cheaper to manufacture. However that isn't the case and it is what it is. Fact is the vehicle drives better than the S197, does a 1/4 mile in the 12's, and a 0-60MPH in about 4.4 seconds for somewhere between $32,000-48,000 depending on your taste. If I bought one I would probably fall somewhere in the middle or just under 40K. Now I'm going to be realistic here with my expectations as a consumer. I will never take my 40K Mustang and balls out on a track, drag strip, or the public road for that matter. I will push it some, drive a little faster through a corner, accelerate heavy now and then, maybe even race the guy in the challenger next to me at the light to the speed limit or a little over lol. My point is I like 90% of people who spend the kind of money for these new cars are not going to ever hit 100% of the cars capabilites and therefore these track comparisons are just for show! If your damn amped about having the absolute best Mustang available then buy a used GT500 or Boss (yes they are for sale out there and it's not for 100,000 either.) I want to drive the car, enjoy the deep sound of the exhaust, have some power at the push of the pedal, but enjoy some refinement in the interior also. My father, old as he may be has a 2009 GT500 that he bought brand new. To this day it only has about 12k on it and when I do drive it, I realize that I CANT DRIVE TO THE CAPABILITIES OF THE CAR IN TOWN ANYHOW. It's cool to have 500HP but I can really only go so fast and drive so hard around town without putting myself or someone else in danger and my 50K dollar car also. Point is guys is that people will buy this car and enjoy it. It looks great and if the performance isn't up to par then people will do what they have always done with Mustangs, UPGRADE THE SHIT OUT OF IT! lol. Hopefully one day soon though Ford will bring aluminum body to the Mustang Thanks for the post. I think you're completely right - you're seeing the car for what it is and how it'll be used by the vast majority of people that buy one. The reality is that neither car will be pushed to its limits by the average buyer of either one, so who cares that the Camaro barely squeezed out a win in one comparison (IIRC, he did admit that he liked everything about the Mustang, but the Camaro "felt better" to him). In the situation most buyers will use it in (comfort, refinement, features), the vehicle is vastly improved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I actually thought it was a good comparison and the better car won for how they evaluated the vehicle. Plenty of praise was given to the Mustang and you can bet your ass they will continue to make improvements in this package. Sure it would of been nice to win the comparison but this was focused solely on the track-vast majority of vehicles will never even go near one. Anyone in the retail side-especially a dealer will always get my respect. These guys put in crazy hours and have to sell whatever the manufacturer produces. They are entitled to their opinion and if they want to bitch here then let them-because i am sure Deanh does not take that same attitude when he his trying to sell a vehicle. Lot's of good product coming up the next 6 months or so and while they will make some mistakes Ford is definitely on the right track-Just like about anyone else in the industry-which to me makes it fun to watch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30 OTT 6 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) And today they announced the 2016 Camaro will be smaller and built on the Cadillac Platform. It will be interesting to see what happens. How small? And what will it cost. And that means the current Camaro other than the very mild refresh never evolved. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/10/20/chevrolet-camaro-smaller-cadillac-ats-chassis/17599689/ It will be interesting. The Cadillac ATS coupe with the 3.6L V6 weighs in at 3530 lbs (curb weight), based on the GM/Cadillac website. The Mustang V6 (automatic) weighs in at 3530 lbs. (curb weight), based on the Ford website. I haven't read if the ATS chassis/body/frame is designed to handle a 550+ Hp 550+ ft.-lbs. supercharged V8. I know the S550 is though. No doubt the new Alpha Camaro will be lighter than the current model but I doubt it will be as trim as the ATS. Edited October 21, 2014 by 30 OTT 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 It's just to bad the average joe can't afford these wonderful cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 It's just to bad the average joe can't afford these wonderful cars. What makes you say that? The average cost of a new car is just over $31K as of August. A base GT starts at $23K and a Ecoboost is $25K. You can get a nicely loaded Ecoboost Mustang for $32K...then add in $800 for a tune that will be coming and you'll have a 4 cyc engine that will surprise alot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 What makes you say that? The last stats I heard put the percentage of Americans who can afford a new car somewhere around 20% (and that's without getting into the "if you can't pay cash, you can't afford it" argument). The number of new vehicles actually purchased each year in the US amounts to somewhere around 5% of the US population, so that 20% estimate is probably not far off. That effectively leaves the average Joe out of the new car market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The "average" new car today is much better equipped than the most expensive luxury car back in the 70s or 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The "average" new car today is much better equipped than the most expensive luxury car back in the 70s or 80s. Forget "ancient" history--it's better equipped than plenty of luxury cars from just 10-15 years ago. Doesn't mean that it's not damned expensive--it costs about what my folks paid for a brand new 1600 sq ft. house in a new subdivision in 1973... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The last stats I heard put the percentage of Americans who can afford a new car somewhere around 20% (and that's without getting into the "if you can't pay cash, you can't afford it" argument). The number of new vehicles actually purchased each year in the US amounts to somewhere around 5% of the US population, so that 20% estimate is probably not far off. That effectively leaves the average Joe out of the new car market. www.upi.com/Business_News/2013/03/10/-New-car-affordability-tougher-than-you-think/UPI-52501362907800/ It all depends....given the fact that used cars are worth more then they where 10 years ago,helps keep car prices higher (less deprecation) since there is more equity in that car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Forget "ancient" history--it's better equipped than plenty of luxury cars from just 10-15 years ago. Doesn't mean that it's not damned expensive--it costs about what my folks paid for a brand new 1600 sq ft. house in a new subdivision in 1973... My parents house that I grew up in was bought by them for $26K...the 1989 Taurus Station wagon they bought was first car that cost more then the house did. I think they had a $280 dollar a month mortgage payment and where able to sell the house for $225K or so in 2004. I often wonder if we'll ever see that much of an increase in housing prices in my life time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Forget "ancient" history--it's better equipped than plenty of luxury cars from just 10-15 years ago. Doesn't mean that it's not damned expensive--it costs about what my folks paid for a brand new 1600 sq ft. house in a new subdivision in 1973... My parents built their own house in the mid 70's for a grand total of $19k for a 1500 sq. ft. house with a finished basement. My wife and I are nearly finished building our new house. We have $27k just in concrete. I think it's safe to say that prices have gone up everywhere, not just cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I often wonder if we'll ever see that much of an increase in housing prices in my life time. According to our contractor, the cost of building a new home has gone up about 20% in just the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 It all depends....given the fact that used cars are worth more then they where 10 years ago,helps keep car prices higher (less deprecation) since there is more equity in that car. The value of the vehicle isn't really in question; it's the cost that matters--a $31K Mustang may be an awesome value, but if you can't afford to spend $31K on a car, it's not an attainable dream. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The value of the vehicle isn't really in question; it's the cost that matters--a $31K Mustang may be an awesome value, but if you can't afford to spend $31K on a car, it's not an attainable dream. No but the same vehicle 3 years later for $16K can be...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 According to our contractor, the cost of building a new home has gone up about 20% in just the last 5 years. We keep seeing spikes in the cost of materials (and labor) thanks to these periodic "urban renewal by the pimp hand of Mother Nature" events. Somehow, the costs never go back down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Somehow, the costs never go back down... And that's the part that sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 No but the same vehicle 3 years later for $16K can be...... Like anyone would want a used car... You know, there's a clip from the movie Used Cars that seems appropriate, but it's not exactly SFW, so I think I'll just let you Google "used cars that's too high" for yourself... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I want a porsche 911 but I'd never buy one new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The value of the vehicle isn't really in question; it's the cost that matters--a $31K Mustang may be an awesome value, but if you can't afford to spend $31K on a car, it's not an attainable dream. If you pay cash for it (i.e. save for it) you can....but of course if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. My 8 year old just about loaded Mustang GT was around 29K....and a 2014 GT is only 32K...with all the same options and with a 430HP V8 vs my 305HP one...that isn't bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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