The Fusion Still Needs a Better Optional Engine.

[akirby]

Once again, I stand corrected.

 

Even without the chicken tax in effect, Importing a small number of Fusion/Mondeo wagons for sale in the US may not be very economical, but then again, they just built 75 C-Max Hybrids at MAP to ship to Europe to "test the market" so I guess anything is possible.

 

The problem is you can't just bring over the Euro versions as is due to drivetrain differences plus the new CD4 Mondeo isn't out yet. Would be easier to ship the wagon parts to FR and assemble them here. But there just isn't enough demand to warrant it.

[aneekr]

And, by the way, let's all take a moment and reflect on the fact that Ford now has a definite competitive advantage in this segment, and that this is the first time this has happened in *years*.

 

Ford had an even greater competitive advantage in the segment in 2010, the year I purchased a new Ford Fusion. Furthermore, Ford's U.S. market share overall at the end of that year was at least 130 basis points higher than in 2014 (YTD).

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

The problem is you can't just bring over the Euro versions as is due to drivetrain differences plus the new CD4 Mondeo isn't out yet. Would be easier to ship the wagon parts to FR and assemble them here. But there just isn't enough demand to warrant it.

How much different is the drivetrain of a left-had-drive Mondeo vs. the NA fusion? If it's the AWD setup then forget it and just do a FWD arrangement. Why couldn't they do a small 75 unit production run for NA export like they are doing with the C-Max?

 

Just playing a little devil's advocate. I really don't think it's a good idea, but there might be a slight case to be made in favor of it under the right conditions.

[akirby]

 

Ford had an even greater competitive advantage in the segment in 2010, the year I purchased a new Ford Fusion. Furthermore, Ford's U.S. market share overall at the end of that year was at least 130 basis points higher than in 2014 (YTD).

 

How has that drop in market share affected profitability?

 

What effect do you think cancelling Ranger had on market share and profitability?

[RichardJensen]

 

Ford had an even greater competitive advantage in the segment in 2010, the year I purchased a new Ford Fusion

 

You mean when their product didn't have the highest ATP in the segment, and they sold about one third fewer Fusions overall?

 

BTW: Please, by all means, continue to refer to market share, rather than such metrics as profit margin and revenue.

[akirby]

How much different is the drivetrain of a left-had-drive Mondeo vs. the NA fusion?

 

They build LHD versions of the Mondeo (for Germany e.g.) so that's not the factor. I forgot they were offering 2.0T and 1.5T powertrains now for Mondeo so that would be the same but I don't know if all the engine parts are the same. I know the emissions and cafe requirements are totally different so at the least it would require reprogramming and potentially recertification in the U.S. Might also require separate crash tests.

 

The point is it's not as simple as just shipping over a Euro model. Since C-Max came from Europe it's probably easier to send them back. It can be done but it's not free.

[akirby]

BTW: Please, by all means, continue to refer to market share, rather than such metrics as profit margin and revenue.

 

Don't forget stock price.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Market share isn't the end-all-be-all when it comes to how well a company is doing. You can have a majority of the market share, but if you aren't making any money with that market share, are you really doing all that well? Ford and GM both had a massive share of the market through the 90's and into the 00's and you see how that ended up.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

They build LHD versions of the Mondeo (for Germany e.g.) so that's not the factor. I forgot they were offering 2.0T and 1.5T powertrains now for Mondeo so that would be the same but I don't know if all the engine parts are the same. I know the emissions and cafe requirements are totally different so at the least it would require reprogramming and potentially recertification in the U.S. Might also require separate crash tests.

 

The point is it's not as simple as just shipping over a Euro model. Since C-Max came from Europe it's probably easier to send them back. It can be done but it's not free.

 

 

That may be the case, but I thought the whole point of One Ford was to be able to sell any vehicle anywhere in the world with minimal modifications. So the engine parts might be a little different, ship them over without engines then install the U.S. spec engines when they arrive. They've been doing much more modifications upon arrival with the Transit Connect than that so I'm confident that it can be done. So it's not simple but not completely unreasonable either.

[RichardJensen]

And there are indications that the auto market is in something of a bubble--at least if you're going to go by a growing rumble of concern regarding the syndication of subprime auto loans.

[fuzzymoomoo]

And there are indications that the auto market is in something of a bubble--at least if you're going to go by a growing rumble of concern regarding the syndication of subprime auto loans.

 

You mean like Chrysler's 84 month Financing?

 

 

1.9% APR for 84 months PLUS $500 CHRYSLER CAPITAL Combo Cash on Eligible new 2014 vehicles: 2014 Chrysler Town & Country, 2014 Jeep Compass, 2014 Jeep Patriot. ($12.73/month per $1,000 financed.)

2.9% APR for 84 months PLUS $500 CHRYSLER CAPITAL Combo Cash on Eligible new 2015 vehicles: 2015 Chrysler 200, 2015 Dodge Dart, 2015 Dodge Grand Caravan, 2015 Chrysler Town & Country. ($13.18/month per $1,000 financed.)

 

Its 2007 all over again

Edited November 4, 2014 by fuzzymoomoo

[akirby]

 

 

That may be the case, but I thought the whole point of One Ford was to be able to sell any vehicle anywhere in the world with minimal modifications. So the engine parts might be a little different, ship them over without engines then install the U.S. spec engines when they arrive. They've been doing much more modifications upon arrival with the Transit Connect than that so I'm confident that it can be done. So it's not simple but not completely unreasonable either.

 

Well there are limits to how much can really be shared due to emissions, cafe and crash testing. Plus local market requirements such as having diesels in Europe. You don't sell Ranger here or F150 in Europe. But if you have a vehicle like Fusion/Mondeo you share as much as possible.

 

I'm saying it can certainly be done but it takes more than just grabbing a Mondeo off the assembly line and sticking it on a boat.

[aneekr]

 

BTW: Please, by all means, continue to refer to market share, rather than such metrics as profit margin and revenue.

 

Thanks, but I'll take a quick break from market share references. Ford's profit margin and revenue have declined over the past year.

 

Revenue: down by $1.1 billion in the first nine months of 2014 compared to the same period in 2013.

Profit margin (operating, Automotive Sector): down 200 basis points

 

OK, back to market share. What's one common thread to the declines in market share, profit margin, and revenue? Answer: flaws with newly launched vehicles.

[akirby]

You mean like Chrysler's 84 month Financing?

 

Or GM aggressively marketing to subprime buyers. Local commercials brag that they were able to finance someone with a 400 credit score. Come on down!

[akirby]

 

OK, back to market share. What's one common thread to the declines in market share, profit margin, and revenue? Answer: flaws with newly launched vehicles.

 

Ford is launching 23 new vehicles in 2014. How many new vehicles did Ford launch in 2013?

 

Fusion had the worst launch ever 2 years ago. October 2014 was Fusion's best October EVER and with the highest ATPs in the segment. So please explain that connection.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Thanks, but I'll take a quick break from market share references. Ford's profit margin and revenue have declined over the past year.

 

Revenue: down by $1.1 billion in the first nine months of 2014 compared to the same period in 2013.

Profit margin (operating, Automotive Sector): down 200 basis points

 

You seem to routinely forget about the fact that half of the model line has had a new model roll-out this year, Including the bread-and-butter F-150 (which is only halfway done BTW). Ford has been saying that all of these launches would have an effect on 2014 sales AND profits. All things considered, They're still doing pretty damn good for themselves.

[rmc523]

 

Thanks, but I'll take a quick break from market share references. Ford's profit margin and revenue have declined over the past year.

 

Revenue: down by $1.1 billion in the first nine months of 2014 compared to the same period in 2013.

Profit margin (operating, Automotive Sector): down 200 basis points

 

OK, back to market share. What's one common thread to the declines in market share, profit margin, and revenue? Answer: flaws with newly launched vehicles.

You do realize they're launching 20-something new products worldwide this year, right? That'd result in less revenue/profit even if everything were to go perfectly, which realistically isn't possible.

[Edstock]

 

What's one common thread to the declines in market share, profit margin, and revenue? Answer:

 

There's a whole number of 'em, which you already know about, like the new F-150 changeover, the Mustang changeover and the up-coming Edge changeover. All of these common threads perturb the market.

[RichardJensen]

 

Thanks, but I'll take a quick break from market share references. Ford's profit margin and revenue have declined over the past year.

 

Revenue: down by $1.1 billion in the first nine months of 2014 compared to the same period in 2013.

Profit margin (operating, Automotive Sector): down 200 basis points

 

OK, back to market share. What's one common thread to the declines in market share, profit margin, and revenue? Answer: flaws with newly launched vehicles.

 

If market share, profit margin, and revenue are all closely related, then GM and Chrysler must be doing significantly better year over year than Ford, right?

 

OH NO!!!!

 

GM's margins went from 5.9% to 3.1%, 285 basis points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

But!

 

But!!!

 

Their revenue and market share were up!!!

 

HOW CAN IT BE??????????????

 

 

HOW CAN IT BE??????????????????????????????????????????????//

 

 

 

 

Is it possible that there's MORE to this business than market share????????????????????????

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

There's a whole number of 'em, which you already know about, like the new F-150 changeover, the Mustang changeover and the up-coming Edge changeover. All of these common threads perturb the market.

 

Also cars with lesser changes like Focus, Fiesta, Expy/Navigator and both versions of Police Interceptor.

 

Then there's also bringing Fusion production to Flat rock, Launching the Transit at Kansas City (Also not completely finished).

 

OH and there's also completely gutting retooling OHAP for the next gen HD trucks.

 

Where exactly is this supposed to NOT take a bunch of monetary resources?

[jasonj80]

The fastest growing segment around the world is SUV's, Europe included. The family I have there has all been slowly trading their BMW, Audi and Opel wagons for SUV's (Q7, X5 and Kuga receptively). My cousin loved the Edge when he saw the concept last year at NAIAS and might get it when it goes on sale next year, his only real concern is that it has a Diesel and insurance class it is in. The wagon is slowly falling out of favor in Europe as well.


And the Fusion has the second highest ATP's in the segment, the Passat is technically the highest. Though the 3 series is outselling it at this point by about 15,000 units. It's almost not even laughable at this point how bad VW is in the US market. Subaru is outselling them by over 120,000 units at this time.

Edited November 4, 2014 by jasonj80

[akirby]

I think we just got trolled. Again.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Their skillz have improved!

[Biker16]

Ford says 4%-8% for the previous Focus wagon:

 

http://www.autosavant.com/2010/03/02/ford-shows-focus-wagon-at-geneva/

 

And if memory serves, that was mostly to fleet customers, as they announced the cancellation of the wagon on the fleet page, not the general site:

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/03/rip-ford-focus-wagon/

 

well ford said the Same thing about the hatchback before that canceled it too. What else could they say we cancelled the product because they didn't have the resources to updated it?

 

Here is the order guide for the 2003 focus

 

It says wagons made of 13% of the order mix with the forlorn 5 door hatch at 15% and the 3 door hatch at 8% of sales.

2003Focus.pdf

[bzcat]

 

They build LHD versions of the Mondeo (for Germany e.g.) so that's not the factor. I forgot they were offering 2.0T and 1.5T powertrains now for Mondeo so that would be the same but I don't know if all the engine parts are the same. I know the emissions and cafe requirements are totally different so at the least it would require reprogramming and potentially recertification in the U.S. Might also require separate crash tests.

 

The point is it's not as simple as just shipping over a Euro model. Since C-Max came from Europe it's probably easier to send them back. It can be done but it's not free.

 

It will be pretty easy to build US-spec Fusion in Spain... that's not an issue, just like Ford is now building Taiwan and Korea spec Mondeo at Flat Rock and Mexico.

 

Emission is also not a problem... 1.5 EB and 2.0 EB are already US-certified.

 

The whole issue with Fusion wagon boils down the Federalization costs. Ford will have to do a full crash testing program, submit a gazillion pages of documentation, and potentially have to EPA fuel economy testing if EPA won't allow it to estimate it using the sedan MPG (that's how the whole C-Max hybrid MPG debacle happened). I remember reading somewhere that the average costs is about $10 million for such a program. So it's not chump change.