Focus RS...this is it...320HP AWD Track Monster

[RichardJensen]

I don't think the Ford Performance AWD setup uses a center diff. It has a PTU and a rear diff with clutches on either half shaft. More similar to the current ford AWD setup.

 

I feel like I'm going to get old explaining this.

 

We all know why there needs to be a differential between left and right wheels, right? The outside wheel needs to move faster than the inside wheel while turning a corner, and the differential enables the wheels to spin at different rates.

 

Well, at 'highway speeds' on dry pavement, a system that powers all four wheels needs to allow the front wheels to spin at a different rate than the back wheels because front and rear wheels take different tracks through the curve.

 

If there is no center differential, the transfer case is attempting to force both axles to spin at the same rate, thus the driveline is subject to torsional forces as the wheels attempt to spin faster or slower than the mechanical components are allowing them to spin.

 

At low speeds and gentle curves, this is not an issue, because the difference in speed is not significant. On loose surfaces this is not an issue because the wheels are able to slip on the loose material, thus preventing the force from building up in the mechanical components.

 

However, at high speeds pn dry pavement---or at low speed when attempting to, for instance, leave a parallel parking spot, without a center differential, you're putting serious mechanical stress on the component.

 

-----

 

 

Now, the iAWD system does not have a center differential. Instead it has a series of clutch packs. These clutch packs, being clutch packs, can eliminate driveline windup by slipping.

 

However, the clutch packs are not designed to slip so frequently that iAWD can be used to divert torque to the 'off' axle on a full time basis.

 

-----

 

 

If you take *nothing* else away from this, take this tidbit away: Any AWD system that has a continuous front/rear torque split has a center differential.

Edited February 4, 2015 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

And the current Ford iAWD system does not have clutch packs on either side of a rear diff.

 

The Ford iAWD system has one set of clutch packs, in the PTU. These clutches transfer torque 10% at a time to the 'off' axle, which is a conventional open differential.

 

The SH-AWD system that Ford is basically using here has a planetary differential that is schematically similar to the planetary diff in the eCVT transmission, with two clutch packs on either output shaft.

[akirby]

My mistake - I thought you were talking about a separate center diff but I see now you said it's built into the PTU on the RS.

[blazerdude20]

Ken Block drives the new RS! Sounds mean!

 

[RichardJensen]

Yes.

 

There is such a pile of conflicting terminology when it comes to 'all wheel drive' devices.

 

The form of the center diff can vary. Subaru, I believe (not sure), uses a planetary diff and clutch packs that makes it very similar to the rear diff in the SH-AWD/RS AWD systems.

 

My mistake - I thought you were talking about a separate center diff but I see now you said it's built into the PTU on the RS.

[geronimo183]

Sorry Ford but its not overly impressive. The front looks foul and is let down by the 'slab' black plastic across he front. It also appears that the 'black plastic' theme has been carried over to the dashboard as well. Other than a bit of blue stitiching the obligatory 3 gauge set up on the dash and some bolted in Recaros, it looks like a basic Focus model. It has been let down by the over use of black plastic, there is nothing in there to make you feel you are driving something special. As per the video, apparently the engineers started on this once the last RS was signed off back in 2009. By the time it arrives in 2016 that is 7 years! Once again Ford make the same mistake of releasing a halo product at the end of its life cycle, as 2017/18 will see the replacement Focus arrive and with such stiff competition from Audi, BMW and Volkswagen I do not think it will have the impact Ford are hoping especially in Europe. Within 2 years after its relase it will be an obsolete model.

 

Its also a shame that it will be 5 door, it just does not look right and this is another indication that Ford are still producing such vehicles on a budget along with the cheap 'bee sting' aerial.....very out of date on a car like this which is debuting new technology for Ford. People that are attracted to this segment are likely to be purchasing on a finance agreement e.g. Personal Contract Purchase so it will be tempting for buyers to push the financial boundaries to get themselves into the Golf 400 R or into a more premium brand such as Audi RS3, 1 series M or A-Class AMG.

 

Another thing that I feel lets this car down is tha the angular front end is not in keeping with the smoother side panel creases, and the slab of plastic on the back end which houses a reversing/fog light just seems a simple after thought, very boring and cheap looking.

Edited February 4, 2015 by geronimo183

[sullynd]

The front looks fowl

?

 

[akirby]

Sorry Ford but its not overly impressive. The front looks foul and is let down by the 'slab' black plastic across he front. It also appears that the 'black plastic' theme has been carried over to the dashboard as well. Other than a bit of blue stitiching the obligatory 3 gauge set up on the dash and some bolted in Recaros, it looks like a basic Focus model. It has been let down by the over use of black plastic, there is nothing in there to make you feel you are driving something special. As per the video, apparently the engineers started on this once the last RS was signed off back in 2009. By the time it arrives in 2016 that is 7 years! Once again Ford make the same mistake of releasing a halo product at the end of its life cycle, as 2017/18 will see the replacement Focus arrive and with such stiff competition from Audi, BMW and Volkswagen I do not think it will have the impact Ford are hoping especially in Europe. Within 2 years after its relase it will be an obsolete model.

 

Its also a shame that it will be 5 door, it just does not look right and this is another indication that Ford are still producing such vehicles on a budget along with the cheap 'bee sting' aerial.....very out of date on a car like this which is debuting new technology for Ford. People that are attracted to this segment are likely to be purchasing on a finance agreement e.g. Personal Contract Purchase so it will be tempting for buyers to push the financial boundaries to get themselves into the Golf 400 R or into a more premium brand such as Audi RS3, 1 series M or A-Class AMG.

 

Another thing that I feel lets this car down is tha the angular front end is not in keeping with the smoother side panel creases, and the slab of plastic on the back end which houses a reversing/fog light just seems a simple after thought, very boring and cheap looking.

 

We're so sorry it doesn't meet your personal standards for interior and exterior design. And why are you comparing it to Audi and BMW? Finally, you've completely ignored the entire reason this car exists - the drivetrain and driving experience which should be second to none in this class.

[Edstock]

People that are attracted to this segment are likely to be purchasing on a finance agreement e.g. Personal Contract Purchase so it will be tempting for buyers to push the financial boundaries to get themselves into the Golf 400 R or into a more premium brand such as Audi RS3, 1 series M or A-Class AMG.

 

Negatards gotta be negatards.

 

You should know that ST buyers (Focus and Fiesta) have by far the wealthiest demographics of all Ford buyers. The point is they can buy = no wannabe Personal Contract Purchase = any Audi RS3, 1 series M or A-Class AMG they want — and they buy the Ford ST's.

 

You'll have to try a lot harder, dude.

[Biker16]

I don't think the Ford Performance AWD setup uses a center diff. It has a PTU and a rear diff with clutches on either half shaft. More similar to the current ford AWD setup.

I agree Richard is going to hate this but.....

 

The clutch pack may not be integrated into the PTU, but integrated into the rear differential.

 

 

And the current Ford iAWD system does not have clutch packs on either side of a rear diff.

 

The Ford iAWD system has one set of clutch packs, in the PTU. These clutches transfer torque 10% at a time to the 'off' axle, which is a conventional open differential.

 

The SH-AWD system that Ford is basically using here has a planetary differential that is schematically similar to the planetary diff in the eCVT transmission, with two clutch packs on either output shaft.

Notice where the center clutch seems to be? At 0:25 minutes

 

One clutch pack on the driveshaft for iAWD and one clutch pack on each rear half shaft for Performance AWD.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Biker16

[traxiii]

Until they offer a 2 door I will not buy any Focus or Fiesta, even though I'd buy a 2 door RS tomorrow if they were available. The darn B-pillar hits me in the shoulder, and I really don't need room for anyone but my wife and German Shepherd Dog. Who the heck wants a 4 door Hot Hatch anyway?

Edited February 4, 2015 by traxiii

[akirby]

Sorry, Richard, but Biker16 is right. As much as it pains me to say it.

 

 

The Ford Performance All-Wheel-Drive system is based on twin electronically controlled clutch packs on each side of the rear drive unit. These manage the car’s front/rear torque split, and can control the side-to-side torque distribution on the rear axle – delivering the “torque vectoring” capability that has a dramatic impact on handling and cornering stability.

The control unit in the rear drive unit continuously varies the front/rear and side-to-side torque distribution to suit the current driving situation, monitoring inputs from multiple vehicle sensors 100 times per second. A maximum of 70 percent of the drive torque can be diverted to the rear axle. Up to 100 percent of available torque at the rear axle can be sent to each rear wheel.

[Biker16]

If the only difference between I-AWD and FP-AWD is the RDU (Rear Drive unit) this system can be used modularly with high parts commonality and Economies of Scale even for a performance model.

[akirby]

I don't think the PTU can be the same unless they switch to a heavier duty unit for iAWD. The current one is far too flimsy to send that much torque to the rear wheels for any extended period. But they could use the same one going forward.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Until they offer a 2 door I will not buy any Focus or Fiesta, even though I'd buy a 2 door RS tomorrow if they were available. The darn B-pillar hits me in the shoulder, and I really don't need room for anyone but my wife and German Shepherd Dog. Who the heck wants a 4 door Hot Hatch anyway?

Looks like you will never buy a Focus or Fiesta then. Ford stopped building cars for the few and is building them for the many now, get used to it or go buy a GM

[RichardJensen]

Biker is correct in that the torque splitting mechanism in iAWD (and its predecessors) is just ahead of the rear diff.

 

On a side point, I wonder if this explains why Ford vehicles see such a marked drop off in fuel economy on AWD, as it appears that the driveshaft to the torque splitting mechanism is continually spinning.

 

So yes, the transfer unit could, in fact, be the same off-the-shelf component used in the SHO and the Explorer Sport, etc:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-2014-Ford-Edge-Lincoln-MKX-transfer-case-power-take-off-unit-OEM-/291017684141

 

However, this is comparable to talking up the cost savings that would come from various Ford vehicles sharing a differential. It's a purely mechanical device.

 

There is indeed a possibility for cost savings here--and to that extent, Biker's right.

 

---

 

However, in every other respect, he's either wrong, or is using arguments counter to ones that he has advanced before.

 

Firstly, the actual torque transfer system mounted ahead of the rear differential is nothing like the "Performance AWD" system that Ford is here using.

 

This is the Honda SH-AWD rear diff. While it is not guaranteed that the Performance AWD system will look like this, it will almost certainly look similar, given the need to accommodate clutch packs and activating mechanisms on either side of the diff. housing:

 

 

Here is the iAWD torque transfer mechanism integrated into the rear diff on an Edge/MKX:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/REAR-CARRIER-DIFFERENTIAL-2010-FORD-EDGE-/400824410840?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2012|Make%3AFord|Model%3AEdge&hash=item5d52ff22d8&vxp=mtr

 

A similar housing for the 2013 Escape:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-FORD-ESCAPE-REAR-DIFFERENTIAL-320288-/311253365605?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2013|Make%3AFord|Model%3AEscape&hash=item4878257365&vxp=mtr

 

 

You cannot share any of the prop shafts. Nor can I understand why a person who chastised Ford for putting Transit Connect sized brakes on a Focus would think it a good idea for Ford to put RS-grade prop shafts on an AWD Focus/Escape/Kuga/C-Max with significantly less power and torque.

 

So, in short. I was wrong about the PTU being integrated with the torque transfer mechanism. But the balance of the objections remain. The RS benefits from being able to share a simple mechanical component with some other AWD equipped vehicles. That's it.

Edited February 4, 2015 by RichardJensen

[coupe3w]

Looks like you will never buy a Focus or Fiesta then. Ford stopped building cars for the few and is building them for the many now, get used to it or go buy a GM

So to bad for the few. You will buy what we make or go somewhere else. Because we know what's good for you, just like the government.

[RichardJensen]

BTW: I'm curious whether Ford uses the same PTUs on the SHO & other EB3.5 vehicles that they use on other products, as the 'leaky PTU' issue seems confined to the lower power models.

[Deanh]

come on coupe3w, that is a cop out, Ford has reacted to consumer input, NOT just said this is it, don't like it see ya. 5 doors appeal to a braoader base than 3 doors and are also cheaper to insure. If they decided to develop a 3 door version it would incur ungodly costs which would be extended to the consumer...and then they would bitch about that. I believe the experiment was prior Focii, the ZX3 and ZX5...and based on take rate , guess which won. Ive owned both, I wouldn't go back to a 3 door unless it was my only option. They suck in comparison in every way barring aesthetics, and even THAT is subjective.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Deanh

[Biker16]

I don't think the PTU can be the same unless they switch to a heavier duty unit for iAWD. The current one is far too flimsy to send that much torque to the rear wheels for any extended period. But they could use the same one going forward.

they could power outpout is only one factor in determining Size of the PTU. other factors like load, towing and cost play a role too.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Biker16

[Deanh]

hmmmm....

[Biker16]

Biker is correct in that the torque splitting mechanism in iAWD (and its predecessors) is just ahead of the rear diff.

 

On a side point, I wonder if this explains why Ford vehicles see such a marked drop off in fuel economy on AWD, as it appears that the driveshaft to the torque splitting mechanism is continually spinning.

 

So yes, the transfer unit could, in fact, be the same off-the-shelf component used in the SHO and the Explorer Sport, etc:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-2014-Ford-Edge-Lincoln-MKX-transfer-case-power-take-off-unit-OEM-/291017684141

 

However, this is comparable to talking up the cost savings that would come from various Ford vehicles sharing a differential. It's a purely mechanical device.

 

There is indeed a possibility for cost savings here--and to that extent, Biker's right.

 

---

 

However, in every other respect, he's either wrong, or is using arguments counter to ones that he has advanced before.

 

Firstly, the actual torque transfer system mounted ahead of the rear differential is nothing like the "Performance AWD" system that Ford is here using.

 

This is the Honda SH-AWD rear diff. While it is not guaranteed that the Performance AWD system will look like this, it will almost certainly look similar, given the need to accommodate clutch packs and activating mechanisms on either side of the diff. housing:

 

 

Here is the iAWD torque transfer mechanism integrated into the rear diff on an Edge/MKX:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/REAR-CARRIER-DIFFERENTIAL-2010-FORD-EDGE-/400824410840?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2012|Make%3AFord|Model%3AEdge&hash=item5d52ff22d8&vxp=mtr

 

A similar housing for the 2013 Escape:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-FORD-ESCAPE-REAR-DIFFERENTIAL-320288-/311253365605?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2013|Make%3AFord|Model%3AEscape&hash=item4878257365&vxp=mtr

 

 

You cannot share any of the prop shafts. Nor can I understand why a person who chastised Ford for putting Transit Connect sized brakes on a Focus would think it a good idea for Ford to put RS-grade prop shafts on an AWD Focus/Escape/Kuga/C-Max with significantly less power and torque.

 

So, in short. I was wrong about the PTU being integrated with the torque transfer mechanism. But the balance of the objections remain. The RS benefits from being able to share a simple mechanical component with some other AWD equipped vehicles. That's it.

 

I Really don't care Richard, you think you know so much, but you don't.

 

I am happy you can admit you were mistaken.

 

PS,halfshafts can be shared, the difference torque between the MKC 2.3 and the RS will not be that great and combined with the fact there is less mass to haul around would make this possible, but only ford knows

[Anthony]

come on coupe3w, that is a cop out, Ford has reacted to consumer input, NOT just said this is it, don't like it see ya. 5 doors appeal to a braoader base than 3 doors and are also cheaper to insure. If they decided to develop a 3 door version it would incur ungodly costs which would be extended to the consumer...and then they would bitch about that. I believe the experiment was prior Focii, the ZX3 and ZX5...and based on take rate , guess which won. Ive owned both, I wouldn't go back to a 3 door unless it was my only option. They suck in comparison in every way barring aesthetics, and even THAT is subjective.

 

 

As far as I'm concerned the 4 door Focus does not exist.

[akirby]

they could power outpout is only one factor in determining Size of the PTU. other factors like load, towing and cost play a role too.

 

It's not the size or power handling. It's heat. Current ones overheat when used too long and there is a problem with the seals leaking that may or may not be heat related. It just needs to be a more robust unit to handle extended torque application to the rear.

[akirby]

PS,halfshafts can be shared, the difference torque between the MKC 2.3 and the RS will not be that great and combined with the fact there is less mass to haul around would make this possible, but only ford knows

 

No they can't - they'd have to be different lengths due to the clutches.