akirby Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I wonder where Ford would be if they could buy stuff with yen and sell it for dollars. And go 25 years without a platform update - and get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Honestly, I don't think their margins on the Camry are all that great---their whole NA ops turn in a pretty low margin as compared to Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Is that an average? I don't understand it, how about a link to the article The only numbers I have will be Ford numbers from the annual report . The 6.321 million unit number is from Ford's 2014 Annual report. The 994 number was from the paper. If you multiply the profit 994 times the units you get 6.283 billion profit for Ford . I will go back to the report and do some calculations and will get back to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 The only numbers I have will be Ford numbers from the annual report . The 6.321 million unit number is from Ford's 2014 Annual report. The 994 number was from the paper. If you multiply the profit 994 times the units you get 6.283 billion profit for Ford . I will go back to the report and do some calculations and will get back to you. Pretax profit, excluding special items, including Ford Credit was 6.82 billion...so that is a match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Pretax profit, excluding special items, including Ford Credit was 6.82 billion...so that is a match So it is more or less an average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 So it is more or less an average. So it is more or less an average. Yes it is an average. It is an accurate metric, but it hardly tells the whole story. The figures are skewed because of the yen and other currency adjustments. Being a multi-national company like Ford has lots of plus's, but it is never all good. In my well over 30 years working for the Ford Motor Company I never saw a year when we fired on all cylinders. If you could take Ford of Europe out of the equation today the Ford average would be much higher. I remember in the early 80's, Ford of Europe helped us keep the lights on at Ford. That is how we paid the bills'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 So it is more or less an average. It is, by definition, exactly the average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) From the Feb 20 Detroit Free Press. Profit per unit world wide Toyota $2726 Ford 994 FCA 850 GM 654 Ford built 6.321 million units in 2014 so the Ford number is close. I imagine the person who did the calculation used the same formula for each company. Was that on Pre-tax numbers? Did it also include the millions of Wulings and SAIC sales that GM claims as part of itt's chinese partnershps? I have grave reservations about dividing annual profit by vehicles sold, as we've just seen Toyota had a huge gain because of for want of a better term, favorable "currency exchange rates/manipulation". I'm sure that motor companies are old hands at being able to conjur profits and make them disappear when needed. Edited March 9, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I wonder where Ford would be if they could buy stuff with yen and sell it for dollars. Does that explain how Toyota has earned more in the last 10 years than ford has over the last 30? And go 25 years without a platform update - and get away with it. Yet in every comparison the Camry still performs better than cars on much newer platforms, the same cannot be said for the Taurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Does that explain how Toyota has earned more in the last 10 years than ford has over the last 30? Yet in every comparison the Camry still performs better than cars on much newer platforms, the same cannot be said for the Taurus. You never heard of currency manipulation? weak Yen http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-03-21/from-japans-weak-yen-toyota-gains-strong-advantage Strong Yen http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/91e716e8-7b9d-11e0-9298-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3TqQyOmSi What comparisons are you talking about? Most say its the safe/boring choice. Most say the Fusion and others are better cars when it comes to driving etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Yes, and vehicle comparison tests in magazines mean what, exactly? I can imagine Biker, back in '80, talking about how Ford should be more like GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Yet in every comparison the Camry still performs better than cars on much newer platforms, the same cannot be said for the Taurus. It comes up dead last every time. Taurus is a decent car on a bad platform (for cars). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Also the perception that Camry some how outperforms vehicles on newer platforms would seem to be an assumption by some based on it being adequate to buyers needs. That's hardly a glowing endorsement.of "performs better" than other newer platforms.... If we now accept that D3 Explorer supports continued D3 Taurus production for now, then the future sales performace of that particular car versus transaction price/ROI is of little consequence compared to the cost of comissioning a CD4 replacement. Anyone spending money on full sized cars these days had better be sure that it will give a decent ROI and also be able to stay in front the future CAFE nominated fuel economy values (window sticker minimums) Edited March 9, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) This commercial (an edited version is running on ESPN) pretty much sums up who Toyota is selling Camries to, these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un6uP6cykgo Edited March 9, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2014/11/whats-the-best-midsize-sedan-for-27000.html Dead last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2014/11/whats-the-best-midsize-sedan-for-27000.html Dead last. The more shocking part of that is Mazda 6 being 4th. Always thought it was generally looked at as worse after gen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) The new one is really good. Actually they're all good, even the Camry. It's just not as good as the others. Edited March 9, 2015 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) We're talking about a global business and how efficient the company operates. Vehicles are engineered and built globally with lots of imports and exports so limiting it to US only or union only makes no sense. Yea, problem is I don't give a rat's ass about who has a job in Turkey or Thailand. I do care about America and jobs here at home. Character flaw I guess... Edited March 9, 2015 by F250 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2014/11/whats-the-best-midsize-sedan-for-27000.html Dead last. That ranking is really absurd. The Malibu beats the Fusion? The LEGACY is #2?! I mean, come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Yea, problem is I don't give a rat's ass about who has a job in Turkey or Thailand. I do care about America and jobs here at home. Character flaw I guess... Again, that wasn't the issue or the question. The implication was that Ford was selling fewer vehicles than GM with more employees and that's simply not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 That ranking is really absurd. The Malibu beats the Fusion? The LEGACY is #2?! I mean, come on. I only posted it because Biker16 said the Camry always did great in comparison tests. There are plenty of others with the same Camry result. That particular one was from cars.com and usa today plus a real family. Their criteria and results are always a little skewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Unsurprisingly in most of the comps I saw the two newest models, the Mazda 6 and Sonata consistently at the top of the pack. Camry mostly in the middle or rear of the pack, it is a very competitive segment of the market and it would seem that "the all new Camry" doesn't stack up well against more modern design alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Unsurprisingly in most of the comps I saw the two newest models, the Mazda 6 and Sonata consistently at the top of the pack. Camry mostly in the middle or rear of the pack, it is a very competitive segment of the market and it would seem that "the all new Camry" doesn't stack up well against more modern design alternatives. I was in a Focus group a year ago. I thought it was for a new Ford but it turned out to be the "new" Camry. There was a mix of Fusion, Malibu, Sonata and a couple of other model owners in my group and to say we were underwhelmed is an understatement. The best we could say about it was it was a little better than the current model and we liked the front lights and the wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Was that on Pre-tax numbers? Did it also include the millions of Wulings and SAIC sales that GM claims as part of itt's chinese partnershps? I have grave reservations about dividing annual profit by vehicles sold, as we've just seen Toyota had a huge gain because of for want of a better term, favorable "currency exchange rates/manipulation". I'm sure that motor companies are old hands at being able to conjur profits and make them disappear when needed. I only verified the Ford numbers from the annual report. The 6.282 billion is pre-tax. It does not include minus 1.94 billion in special items but does include 1.854 billion profit from Ford Credit. Ford and GM do not play with the numbers outside of GAAP. The CEO must sign the Financial reports and they are Federal reports. Get caught and you lose your bonus, stock options and get jail time. Lie to the SEC and you go to jail and it is years not months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I only verified the Ford numbers from the annual report. The 6.282 billion is pre-tax. It does not include minus 1.94 billion in special items but does include 1.854 billion profit from Ford Credit. Thankyou, I thought that was the numbers being quotrd Ford and GM do not play with the numbers outside of GAAP. The CEO must sign the Financial reports and they are Federal reports. Get caught and you lose your bonus, stock options and get jail time. Lie to the SEC and you go to jail and it is years not months. Not implying anything illegal goes on but thre's a lot of lattitude within the rules to write down as much as possible, especially non-cash write downs that can fluctuate between years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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