Ford's February 2015 Sales Figures

[F250]

The Camry is the same basic 20 year old platform.Same for the Corolla. the Tacoma is basicly the the same Tacoma it has been for 20 years. Toyota doesn't scrap things that work. They are the masters at convincing the buying public that a Lexus is completely different than a Toyota.

Not true. 20 years ago the Corolla had independent rear suspension, today it has a cheap beam rear axle. But it does still have rear drum brakes.

[PREMiERdrum]

Not true. 20 years ago the Corolla had independent rear suspension, today it has a cheap beam rear axle. But it does still have rear drum brakes.

 

 

The Camry is the same basic 20 year old platform.Same for the Corolla. the Tacoma is basicly the the same Tacoma it has been for 20 years. Toyota doesn't scrap things that work. They are the masters at convincing the buying public that a Lexus is completely different than a Toyota.

 

The Camry is the real offender here, with the platform dating back to 1992. Corolla, IIRC, was ground-up new in 2002.

[RichardJensen]

Toyota doesn't scrap things that work.

 

Eventually, though, it will stop working--and what is Toyota's plan then? Will they have the institutional knowledge required to do more than 'grandfather's axe' the Camry? Think about it: It's been over 25 years since they clean-sheeted a new midsize vehicle. People who were 30 when Toyota started work on the '92 Camry are close to 60 now.

[Gnostic]

 

Of course it's a plus, because no matter what Toyota is making on Camry, selling a Fusion for less than $26,586 would still yield less profit for Ford.

 

It called dumping. You can get an equivalent Camry for $2000 less than a Fusion. That starts to erode you business model. Its right out of the Japanese 90's playbook.

[Biker16]

Market share and profits have virtually nothing to do with short term stock prices.

 

Ford does not employ more workers than GM. 188K for Ford compared to 212K for GM.

 

U.S. sales were 2.4M for Ford and 2.9M for GM in 2014.

 

Up until recently Ford's profit margin was far better than GM.

 

 

Ford tops GM in U.S. factory jobs Dearborn company's UAW work force has trailed rival's since at least '30s

 

 

 

DETROIT -- For the first time since at least the 1930s, Ford Motor Co. employs more U.S. factory workers than its larger rival, General Motors.

Ford, after cutting its hourly work force by more than half from 2005 through 2011, has been on a hiring binge. It has added an average of 10 union jobs a day since 2011, company figures show, easily beating a target of 12,000 new jobs in that period.

[ironhorse]

Toyota has worked the system to it's advantage...while Ford and Chevy has been trying to one up each other, Toyota hasn't had to do anything except manipulate currency, dump product at a loss, and make no substantial changes to any of their platforms....and rake in obscene profits at Ford and GM's expense.

 

The media has also been culpable for not holding Toyota to the same criticism and standards as the domestics.

[RichardJensen]

 

 

 

Ford tops GM in U.S. factory jobs

 

Dearborn company's UAW work force has trailed rival's since at least '30s

 

 

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150215/OEM/302169970/ford-tops-gm-in-u.s.-factory-jobs

 

OH SNAP!

 

Other reasons Ford needs as many U.S. plant workers as GM:

• Ford builds fewer vehicles in Canada and Mexico than GM, while outproducing GM in the U.S. The U.S. accounted for 78 percent of Ford's North American production last year, vs. an estimated 61 percent for GM, according to the Automotive News Data Center.

 

 

Let's take a look at those numbers:

 

FNA wholesales * .78 vs. GMNA wholesales * .61

 

2,842 * .78 = 2.216M | 3.4M * .61 = 2.07M vehicles built in the US (roughly) ---- bearing in mind that those figures are from 2014, when Ford had a significant amount of NA production offline for product changeover

 

It certainly doesn't look like Ford's US ops are radically less efficient than GM's: In fact, they appear to have produced ~200k more cars than GM in the US---and note that I'm not using NA production to calculate this, I'm using NA wholesales, which is important because of this factor:

 

• Ford has greatly increased its exports from U.S. plants to overseas markets, again due largely to the incentive that two-tier wages create.

 

 

From the same article.

 

Assuming that Ford & GM exports from NA are comparable, and that imports to NA are also comparable, Ford is considerably more efficient than GM, and to the extent that Ford's net exports from NA exceed those of GM, Ford is that much more efficient in labor utilization than GM.

 

----

 

And, you have to ask yourself, if GM's labor utilization was so much more efficient than Ford's, then why has Ford consistently delivered a higher net margin and a higher gross margin than GM-----when GM has typically had higher revenue per unit sold?

Edited March 6, 2015 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

Also, GM's 50,300 workers are employed in ~30 facilities, Ford's 50,700 workers are employed in ~20 facilities

[akirby]

That only addresses HOURLY factory jobs in the U.S. - not total employees in the U.S. or total employees globally.

 

Way to cherry pick your numbers.

[630land]

Toyota Tundra was supposed to 'take the truck crown from Detroit' per Coastal Elitsts, but it's an also ran. Explorer was predicted to be 'killed off' when the tire fiasco occured, but look, it is up 32% and on an "old" platform no less.

 

Ford has been in worse conditions, and came through, I think they will be fine and again, no need for a "Focus ZX2 coupe", "New Panther", "new Probe", or resurrected MN-12.

 

 

BTW: Corolla and Camry sell to 'anti-car' types who want 'just transportation' and will Google 'best car value'. So, it sells and sells. But younger buyers are not into them and when the old Boomers get older, Toyota will have to get with it and quit making biege-mobiles.

[351cid]

Look back to the model T to see what not updating a platform can do. Henry Ford wanted to produce the model T even after production of his X-8 radial engine / auto shifting trans model (never got that off the ground.). The Model T sales started dropping drastically in the mid 20's. The all new Model A jump started FoMoCo again....only that chassis was used through 1948. Again, the 1949 models saved FoMoCo.

 

I know times are different, and WW2 had a huge impact, but even today; 20 years on a platform will come back to haunt.

[Biker16]

That only addresses HOURLY factory jobs in the U.S. - not total employees in the U.S. or total employees globally.

 

Way to cherry pick your numbers.

no worse than the "up to 700lbs" the F 150 lost.

 

[jpd80]

no worse than the "up to 700lbs" the F 150 lost.

 

Which on the strength of it is mostly true with the exception of minor sales single cab where weight reductions were slightly less

and high series lifestyle trucks that are now equipped more luxury features like heavy sun roof option that adds a lot of weight.

 

Most F150s sold are either Extre cab or crew cab in either 2WD or 4WD, the majority of which are XLT or lower trim.

Pretty sure that Ford demonstrated the weight loss between 2014 and 2015 examples in a popular combination.

 

 

The point here being that, Ford committed a lot of production back to the US but only because the UAW

put forward a plan as part of negotiations with VEBA funding, almost like co-investing in both sides future.

 

While Ford can crow about numbers working in the US (just) it's the numbers north and South of the border

where GM picks up efficiency and evens up its figures, could you imagine the carve up on costs if GM

moved half of those Canadian or Mexican assembly operations to the USA, the NA profit margins would tank.

 

Re Toyota,

Prety sure Ford would rather book higher ATPs with Fusion and only get 75% of Camry's monthly sales,

getting that last 25% is like picking up nickels in front of a steam roller, expending added resources and

funding on a maybe added increase on ROI. It's just less complicated to be happy with working to build

current product mix slowly.

Edited March 8, 2015 by jpd80

[F250]

That only addresses HOURLY factory jobs in the U.S. - not total employees in the U.S. or total employees globally.

 

Way to cherry pick your numbers.

So prove your point.

What is Ford's total employees in the U.S. vs their competitors?

Oh, and don't waste your time on the global numbers I couldn't care less about that.

Edited March 8, 2015 by F250

[Fgts]

Toyota Tundra was supposed to 'take the truck crown from Detroit' per Coastal Elitsts, but it's an also ran. Explorer was predicted to be 'killed off' when the tire fiasco occured, but look, it is up 32% and on an "old" platform no less.

 

Ford has been in worse conditions, and came through, I think they will be fine and again, no need for a "Focus ZX2 coupe", "New Panther", "new Probe", or resurrected MN-12.

 

The Japanese won't make a dent in the pickup market as long as Detroit keep innovating and offer a good truck.

 

I think a coupe on the next gen Focus is in development. Not being based on a profit volume model played part in why those cars were killed.

 

BTW: Corolla and Camry sell to 'anti-car' types who want 'just transportation' and will Google 'best car value'. So, it sells and sells. But younger buyers are not into them and when the old Boomers get older, Toyota will have to get with it and quit making biege-mobiles.

The Taurus was #1 with SHO models available with Escort #2 with it's performance models. Other the fleeting, reliability fiascos and SUV dollar chasing cost those positions.

 

In other words why not be the go-to car for non-car people as well as the performance crowd?.

[silvrsvt]

The Taurus was #1 with SHO models available with Escort #2 with it's performance models. Other the fleeting, reliability fiascos and SUV dollar chasing cost those positions.

 

In other words why not be the go-to car for non-car people as well as the performance crowd?.

 

What are you talking about? The major reason the Taurus was number one seller was because of fleet sales. The Escort barely had a "performance" model when it was around.

 

I'd rather see Ford sell less at a profit then just chase sales #

[Fgts]

 

What are you talking about? The major reason the Taurus was number one seller was because of fleet sales. The Escort barely had a "performance" model when it was around.

 

I'd rather see Ford sell less at a profit then just chase sales #

Really? just fleets? (as i already mentioned) . Even at that time without fleet, Taurus would still been 2nd or 3rd best seller to CamCorder.

 

Please don't forget about Escort GT (and in several bodystyles too). The early 90s Escort embarrass the Corolla and Civic in sales and performance in certain models. Also the 90s Escort wasn't bad for reliability at all as i've seen many of them go 200k+ mi's.

[akirby]

So prove your point.

What is Ford's total employees in the U.S. vs their competitors?

Oh, and don't waste your time on the global numbers I couldn't care less about that.

 

We're talking about a global business and how efficient the company operates. Vehicles are engineered and built globally with lots of imports and exports so limiting it to US only or union only makes no sense.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Also the 90s Escort wasn't bad for reliability at all as i've seen many of them go 200k+ mi's.

As long as the bodies didn't fall apart around them, particularly the ZX2s.

[fordtech1]

As long as the bodies didn't fall apart around them, particularly the ZX2s.

Compared to the Cougar 99-02 the zx2 was bullet proof, even the bodies. The vibrating escort wasn't a bad car with just a little care and luck. Of course, something so simple should be that way.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Compared to the Cougar 99-02 the zx2 was bullet proof, even the bodies. The vibrating escort wasn't a bad car with just a little care and luck. Of course, something so simple should be that way.

You don't live in Michigan, do you? Road salt and the worst roads in the country killed those things. I see them all the time with the bottoms rusting out. It happened to my fiance's before she traded it in, it was weeks away from dropping the passenger seat out of it.

 

The drivetrains however, were bulletproof. Mine and hers both made it to 150k miles with little trouble beyond normal wear and tear type stuff, though mine had a seemingly unusual appetite for alternators.

[banker55]

We're talking about a global business and how efficient the company operates. Vehicles are engineered and built globally with lots of imports and exports so limiting it to US only or union only makes no sense.

From the Feb 20 Detroit Free Press.

 

Profit per unit world wide Toyota $2726

Ford 994

FCA 850

GM 654

 

Ford built 6.321 million units in 2014 so the Ford number is close. I imagine the person who did the calculation used the same formula

for each company.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Is that an average? I don't understand it, how about a link to the article

[RichardJensen]

The Taurus was #1 with SHO models available

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/06/best-selling-cars-around-the-globe-1992-the-year-of-the-ford-taurus/

based on data here:

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/1993/01/usa-1992-ford-taurus-leads-passenger-cars-for-first-time/

 

The first time the Taurus was the best selling car was 1992, when it outsold the Accord by fewer than 17,000 units. Ford sells heavily to fleets. Honda does not.

 

In 1993, the Taurus again outsold the Accord, this time by 30,000 units--but again, Ford routinely sold more than 20% of its inventory to fleets, Honda barely any:

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19940115&slug=1889730

 

In 1994, the Taurus outsold the Accord by about 30,000 units again, and once again, fleeting was responsible for that:

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/1995/01/usa-1994-ford-f-series-and-chevrolet-ck-stronger/

 

In 1995, the Taurus again outsold the Accord, but only by about 25,000 units and, again, do I need to mention fleeting?

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/1996/01/usa-1995-ford-f-series-and-explorer-impress/

 

At no point in time were the Taurus and Escort *ever* #1/#2 in sales. It was always, always, ALWAYS Taurus/Accord.

[RichardJensen]

From the Feb 20 Detroit Free Press.

 

Profit per unit world wide Toyota $2726

Ford 994

FCA 850

GM 654

 

Ford built 6.321 million units in 2014 so the Ford number is close. I imagine the person who did the calculation used the same formula

for each company.

 

I wonder where Ford would be if they could buy stuff with yen and sell it for dollars.