Ranger, and Bronco, going to MAP?

[fordmantpw]

 

I don't think this is going to be a midsize. If for no other reason than the CAFE footprint requirements. Compare the footprint of the Colorado & its MPG with the footprint of the 2.7L F150 and its MPG.

 

And there is no reason to expect that Ford is going to severely trump the fuel economy of the Canyorado with a vehicle that is, in effect, the same size. Maybe an MPG or 2, but it's not like they are going to beat it by 25% or anything close to that.

[twintornados]

 

 

As of yet we don't know what engine would be in a US Ranger.

Since the 3.2L Powerstroke is already in the ROW Ranger....why would it not make it to the US market?

[bzcat]

Since the 3.2L Powerstroke is already in the ROW Ranger....why would it not make it to the US market?

 

My guess is 3.2 I5 in Ranger won't be CAFE positive relative to 2.7 EB F-150.

 

2.2 or 2.4 I4 diesel will be my guess IF we are really getting T7 Ranger.

Edited August 26, 2015 by bzcat

[SoonerLS]

I think the need to call it F-100 to keep the sales crown is unnecessary. Even with the F150 taking a big hit this year, the F-Series is handly outselling the Silverado. You'd probably get some squawking from GM by including everything from tiny through gigantic in the F-Series sales. The F6/750 aren't included in F-Series numbers IIRC.

"Heavy Trucks" sales are listed separately in the sales charts. I'd guess those are the F650 and F750, but I don't see where Ford specifies that.

Edited August 26, 2015 by SoonerLS

[fordmantpw]

"Heavy Trucks" sales are listed separately in the sales charts. I'd guess those are the F650 and F750, but I don't see where Ford specifies that.

 

I think your guess is correct, so the F-100 likely would not be lumped in with F-Series either.

[BlackHorse]

Since the 3.2L Powerstroke is already in the ROW Ranger....why would it not make it to the US market?

 

 

I think that would be a good idea, especially considering that the GM trucks have a small diesel offered now. I'm not sure if Ford would do it given their reluctance to put a diesel in the F150.

[akirby]

They're not bringing T6/T7 Ranger so the diesel argument is irrelevant.

[BlackHorse]

They're not bringing T6/T7 Ranger so the diesel argument is irrelevant.

 

 

Well for starters it wasn't an argument, but I understand that you would very much like for it to be.

 

Secondly, just because they aren't or wouldn't be bringing the T6 Ranger to the US does not mean that whatever variant of the Ranger they do / would build could not also be fitted with a diesel engine. They could put a diesel in a Fusion if they really wanted to.

[timmm55]

I was hoping more like a Courier or Tornado or the new Ram http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/01/ram-700-fiat-small-truck-mexico/#slide-3069825

[jasonj80]

Well being there is a new Diesel family toward the end of the decade i'm guessing that will find its way into it, those should be launching about the time this is coming out. 3.0L V6 for the F-150/Expedition/Transit/Lincoln(?), 2.0L for the rest of the line up. A 2.0L Diesel with a 10 speed and 4x2 you'd be ~38 mpg, You could probably hit 35mpg with a small gas engine. C3 Focus could launch early 2018 retool the plant for 4-6 months and launch late 2018.

[Sevensecondsuv]

I don't know much of anything about the physical capabilities of the plant itself, but the C2/C3/TC based rumors don't jive with the Troller based Bronco rumors. They could assemble both platforms in the same plant, but there would be very little synergy. Also, I don't see a spot in Ford's line up for car-based Bronco. There is definitely space for a real off road Bronco though. This leads me to believe that both (3 if it includes an Everest type SUV) will be on a RWD/BOF platform that has some sort of Troller DNA and may also be the upcoming T7. (Perhaps size will be scalable for US vs ROW?)

 

In any case, I'm really holding out hope that this is the platform that brings me back to Ford after my current hiatus.

[jpvbs]

It seems a C2/C3 based assortment at MAP with some kind of Transit Connect based truck and some kind of SUV variant make the most business sense. However, if Ford calls Focus based trucks Ranger and Bronco, people are going to marching on Dearborn with torches and pitchforks - probably lead by Sevensecondsuv.

[PREMiERdrum]

I assumed, and conventional wisdom would expect this to be C-based truck, utility, and Transit Connect.

 

A decent source of mine says it's T6: Pickup and 2 utilities. Take that as you will.

[RichardJensen]

A 2.0L Diesel with a 10 speed and 4x2 you'd be ~38 mpg, You could probably hit 35mpg with a small gas engine.

 

Highway? On a T6 sized truck?

 

I don't think so. 38 MPG is over 33% better than the F150, and how would you get that? I don't see how you're going to have a that much savings in Cd and frontal area, and those are big pieces of the highway mileage figure.

[Anthony]

I assumed, and conventional wisdom would expect this to be C-based truck, utility, and Transit Connect.

 

A decent source of mine says it's T6: Pickup and 2 utilities. Take that as you will.

T6 as in the global Ranger "as-is"?

[bzcat]

I assumed, and conventional wisdom would expect this to be C-based truck, utility, and Transit Connect.

 

A decent source of mine says it's T6: Pickup and 2 utilities. Take that as you will.

 

This is why it is so fun to speculate... both seems plausible and likely given what we know but only 1 can be true. I don't see how we end up with both Transit Connect based pickup/SUV and T6 pickup/SUV... or maybe we can?

[PREMiERdrum]

T6 as in the global Ranger "as-is"?

 

That was his wording.

 

FWIW, the Troller T4 was redesigned off of the T6 platform for 2014. It seemed odd at the time, however...

 

**EDIT**

One more cryptic message from him:

 

Pickup and two utilities. I didn't say brand.

Edited August 27, 2015 by PREMiERdrum

[bzcat]

I'm trying to sketch out a plausible business plan for MAP based on the following:

 

All numbers below are annual and assume NAFTA zone sales, not just US.

 

75k T6 (or T7?) Ranger

25k Bronco (Everest)

 

100k Transit Connect (van version) - current US sales is about 60k a year and if Ford wins USPS tender, it can easily go over 100k a year

50k Transit Connect (truck and cab chassis version)

50k TBD PHEV/hybrid car

 

Total MAP volume 300k on 2 lines working two shifts. Ford will need to build a 2nd paint booth at MAP to make it happen.

[RichardJensen]

I don't think you're going to see both a T7 and a TC based truck

[bzcat]

I don't think you're going to see both a T7 and a TC based truck

 

I agree... just putting it out there so we can have some basis for discussion. Doesn't mean I actually think it will happen.

 

In my example above, it will probably be more profitable for Ford to forgo the T7 and use the 100k capacity as Escape and MKC overflow, and as contingent capacity if the PHEV becomes really successful.

 

The problem, the way I see it is that T7 cannot realistically go beyond 100k volume. BOF midsize pickup is CAFE challenged (unless Americans start buying diesel), and BOF SUV is a dying market. With something that low volume, MAP has to have other products. Then the math becomes more difficult because you can have upside with C3 based products.

Edited August 27, 2015 by bzcat

[akirby]

My guess is they're downsizing T6 and T7 will be smaller and probably use aluminum as well. In that case I could see a Ranger, Bronco and a small Lincoln SUV.

But not at the current T6 Ranger size. You can't get the mpg savings over the F150.

[RichardJensen]

My best-case scenario is the Bronco & Ranger selling about equally at a total rate of maybe 150k NAFTA. I think 75k Broncos is a not unreasonable NA target given Wrangler sales (175k last year in the US), and with the expectation that the Bronco would have better FE & be more streetable w/a corresponding sacrifice of off-road-ability in the basic models.

[RichardJensen]

And what if T7 is not BOF? What if it's unibody a la the Transit?

[PREMiERdrum]

Two interesting notes from some BON alums on GMI:

 

Ausrutherford:

 

Nope, the Ranger and F-150 will be using the same platform forthcoming...just in different sizes.

Ford F-150
Ford Expedition
Lincoln Navigator
Ford Bronco
Ford Everest
Troller T4
JMC Yusheng
JMC Tiger

All on the same basic platform going forward.

 

 

...and Wes...

 

Ford wants a piece of the Wrangler pie, and they've become convinced with the right Bronco, they can grab enough sales to make it worth it. You can expect they won't be pulling any punches, either... top-notch off-road hardware, tons of customization / equipment variations (2WD turbo I4 Malibu Barbie beach special, to the fully-kitted vertical rock crawler), and a very aggressive marketing campaign to let everyone know the Bronco is back.

 

[jasonj80]

 

Highway? On a T6 sized truck?

 

I don't think so. 38 MPG is over 33% better than the F150, and how would you get that? I don't see how you're going to have a that much savings in Cd and frontal area, and those are big pieces of the highway mileage figure.

 

I'm not saying that a 4x4 CrewCab will hit that number but a small 4x2 regular cab could come very close. A Regular f-150 is 75.5" tall a T6 Ranger is 70.5", a F-150 is 79.9" wide a T6 Ranger is 72.8", They are similar in length the difference is that the Ranger has a 7.5ft bed where the F150 is 6.5ft. It is about a 15% smaller frontal area for the T6.