7Mary3 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Latest I am hearing is that there will be no more V-10's in the 2016 F-450/550. The 6.8L is supposed to be back in the new 2017 450/550, but not until 3rd. quarter 2016. Also hearing there is a sales hold on the 2016 650/750's, something about the seatbelt anchors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) The UAW agreement mentions continued updates to the 6.2 V8 and a new larger Capacity V8 for MD use... Are we about to see a 6.6 Liter (400 CID) or maybe a 7.0 Liter (427) expansion of the Boss? Edited November 12, 2015 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The question is, just how large can the 6.2L Hurricane/BOSS motor be stretched out to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 The UAW agreement mentions continued updates to the 6.2 V8 and a new larger Capacity V8 for MD use... Are we about to see a 6.6 Liter (400 CID) or maybe a 7.0 Liter (427) expansion of the Boss? No, The UAW argeement mentions a new displacement 6.2L for the Super Duty pickups, not the medium duties. Story is the V-10 will be back in the 450 and 550 for the 2017 MY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 No, The UAW argeement mentions a new displacement 6.2L for the Super Duty pickups, not the medium duties. Story is the V-10 will be back in the 450 and 550 for the 2017 MY. Romeo Engine: $150 million investment to continue to make upgraded versions of the 5.2-liter and 6.2-liter engines and also add a new displacement for the new Super Duty pickups. The plant will also continue to make connecting rods for the 5-liter V8 engine block and add a head machining module. ...."new displacement for the new Super Duty Pickups." ............."upgraded versions of 5.2 liter and 6.2 liter engines" Lot of room here for interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) No, The UAW argeement mentions a new displacement 6.2L for the Super Duty pickups, not the medium duties. Story is the V-10 will be back in the 450 and 550 for the 2017 MY. Sorry about engine capacity misquote, perhaps we will see two gasoline engine capacities in upper and lower Super Duties? F450/F550 (6.2 & 6.8) F250/F350 ( 6.2 and smaller V8 gas engine - not EB V6). The V10 would seem to suit F450/550 better than the 6.2 so fingers crossed, we end up with the right engines in the right places, looking forward to seeing what the new displacement actually is. Edited November 13, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Wonder if the availability issue on the 6.8 is due to plant disruptions related to rearranging equipment / block machining lines. I can see banking 6.8s for F650/F750 for some customers who insist on gas, but for the quantities used in the F450/F550 that might not be practical. Also, for a new displacement of the 6.2 block for the Superduties, I expect a displacement somewhere between 5.0 and 6.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Also, for a new displacement of the 6.2 block for the Superduties, I expect a displacement somewhere between 5.0 and 6.2. Smaller than the 6.2L? With a couple turbos added in I would assume... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealmrmustang Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The question is, just how large can the 6.2L Hurricane/BOSS motor be stretched out to? Roush has built a full race 7.5L (460ci) Boss for an off-road race team... http://bangshift.com/general-news/videos/watch-a-ford-6-2-boss-engine-which-now-measures-460ci-scream-at-8500-rpm-and-make-800hp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Wonder if the availability issue on the 6.8 is due to plant disruptions related to rearranging equipment / block machining lines. I can see banking 6.8s for F650/F750 for some customers who insist on gas, but for the quantities used in the F450/F550 that might not be practical. Also, for a new displacement of the 6.2 block for the Superduties, I expect a displacement somewhere between 5.0 and 6.2. Seems to be an emissions issue, but details are sketchy. You and jpd80 might be right, there could be a smaller version of the 6.2L planned for the SD pickups. GM is rumored to be working on a 7.0L version of their 6.0L gas V-8 for HD pickups and commercial applications, as an answer to Ford's 6.8L. If Ford is going to keep the 6.8L around, would they need a larger 6.2L? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Latest I am hearing is that there will be no more V-10's in the 2016 F-450/550. The 6.8L is supposed to be back in the new 2017 450/550, but not until 3rd. quarter 2016.As crazy as it sounds, maybe the reason is high demand in the F650/750 ? Seems to be an emissions issue, but details are sketchy.Aren't F450/550 on the same emissions tier as F650/750 ? Edited November 13, 2015 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 As crazy as it sounds, maybe the reason is high demand in the F650/750 ? Aren't F450/550 on the same emissions tier as F650/750 ? F-450 is considered heavy duty for EPA emission standards (over 8,500 lbs GVWR) so yes... F-250 through F-750 are all subject to the same emission standards. I agree with your guess that Ford probably is allocating the V10 to F-650/750 in 2016 due to projected demands/inventory planning. They can probably sell left over 2015 F-450/550 V10 for a while and switch to early 2017 model year once they have enough F-650/750 gasoline trucks in the inventory system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Seems to be an emissions issue, but details are sketchy. You and jpd80 might be right, there could be a smaller version of the 6.2L planned for the SD pickups. GM is rumored to be working on a 7.0L version of their 6.0L gas V-8 for HD pickups and commercial applications, as an answer to Ford's 6.8L. If Ford is going to keep the 6.8L around, would they need a larger 6.2L? The majority of sales in F450/F550 is the diesel, maybe the gas engine option isn't a high priority just yet... Edited November 13, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Also, for a new displacement of the 6.2 block for the Superduties, I expect a displacement somewhere between 5.0 and 6.2. Would Ford introduce a smaller engine to F250 when the 6.2 is 50% of sales? The sales mix decreases rapidly to 25% in F350 I don't think it;s offered in F450/F550. It's more likely that the 6.2 is going to improved, torque made better for a truck and a larger capacity engine added above it.... Edited November 13, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I would assume that the 6.2 architecture would be the idea going forward to homogenize engine offerings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 My best guess on what that new engine displacement will be is a 7.0L Engine based on the BOSS block, but likely with a few modifications to some of its fundamental properties for CNG use. OldWizard, one of the people on this forum who should know the most about these things indicated that the 6.2L Boss was unsuited to medium duty duty cycles due to issues related to durability/cooling under the types of usage that such engines see in medium duty applications. So, it seems natural that Ford would want to address those issues with a mid-cycle upgrade to the block. One advantage that CNG has for this type of situation is that it doesn't produce the same power levels that gasoline does. As we've seen time and again, CNG versions of these engines have reduced performance. One way to get back most of that performance is to increase the displacement of the block. A 7.0L CNG BOSS would produce near the power numbers of a 6.2L Gasoline BOSS while likely being just down on power enough to make the engine tolerate medium duty usage. We also were given to understand that the engine's design was done with the idea of future versions having 3 or more valves per cylinder. I wouldn't be shocked to see the new displacement come with 3 valves per cylinder as well. It keeps the engine SOHC, keeping it simpler, but adds improvements to breathing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Was told they are testing a 5.8 gas motor in the SD line. It is a 4 valve, DI motor making more HP and TQ then the 6.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 One reason I do not think that a V8 larger than 6.2 l is in the cards for the Superduty pickups is the pending greenhouse gas reduction goals the US has committed to by 2025. Big changes coming guys, because very few people are aware of what the commitment is (mandated 26% reduction from the 2005 baseline, and 28% reduction goal). The low hanging fruit was picked several years ago, and we are not yet halfway there. Just looking at the mandates for class 8 tractors (and the separate mandates for semi trailers) predicts what is over the horizon for the years 2020 to 2025 for classes 3 through 7. Carbon traps anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Interesting proposition If we extrapolate the good work done with F150's 5.0 V8, now with 385 hp / 387 lb ft, a 5.8 then becomes more like 440 hp/448 lb ft and the 6.2 becomes more like 475 hp / 480 lb ft Even with the down rating for Super Duty, that 5.8 and 6.2 would be more than a match for the present 6.2 and 6.8 I wonder what Ford is up to, could these engines work effectively with upgraded auto trans with more gears? And what of the 6,8, I wonder if Ford has a few more tricks up its sleeve for improving torque.. Edited November 16, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 That's not the first time a 5.8L version of the BOSS has been discussed. We heard about that a few years ago here as a potential hi-po version for certain applications. As I recall there, it was an engine mass issue at that point. I don't think that the current version of the 6.2L block would work out at the power levels needed in medium duty with 4V heads and those stated numbers (gasoline fueled version). Thermal issues would definitely come into play. Now, if they've modified the block, that's a different story. I doubt that Ford is going to do anything with the 6.8L V-10 other than use it like it is until emissions regs kill it off. Its a solid piece of gear that reliably does something that the competition doesn't yet have a full answer for. My father-in-law has a very large E-series cutaway based Class-C motor home with the 3V 6.8L V-10 in it and loves it. ITs got all the performance that he could want and gets much better gas mileage than his old early 90s GM medium chassis based Class-A with the old 454 that he parted with a few years ago. I still wonder about the 6.2L and 5.8L Boss engine and their use with CNG. Given CNG's different combustion characteristics, and its lower BTU content and resulting lower engine power levels, could a forced induction CNG 6.2L 4V boss be a workable medium duty solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) I doubt that Ford is going to do anything with the 6.8L V-10 other than use it like it is until emissions regs kill it off. Its a solid piece of gear that reliably does something that the competition doesn't yet have a full answer for. My father-in-law has a very large E-series cutaway based Class-C motor home with the 3V 6.8L V-10 in it and loves it. ITs got all the performance that he could want and gets much better gas mileage than his old early 90s GM medium chassis based Class-A with the old 454 that he parted with a few years ago. While I agree that the 6.2 is probably still too small for Medium Duty service in F650 and F750, a new and improved 6.2 with 4V heads and Charge Motion Valves may be just the ticket as a gas and CNG engine option F350/F450 and perhaps F550 but the reality check is that the 6.7 Diesel is still the outstanding sales champ in those segments, how keen is Ford to pick up relatively easy sales with an economy gasoline and CNG engine option. An efficient 5.8 and new trans in the Aluminum F250 could be the big news, Ford may have another big hit on its hands with that combination...... Edited November 16, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 That's not the first time a 5.8L version of the BOSS has been discussed. We heard about that a few years ago here as a potential hi-po version for certain applications. As I recall there, it was an engine mass issue at that point. I don't think that the current version of the 6.2L block would work out at the power levels needed in medium duty with 4V heads and those stated numbers (gasoline fueled version). Thermal issues would definitely come into play. Now, if they've modified the block, that's a different story. I doubt that Ford is going to do anything with the 6.8L V-10 other than use it like it is until emissions regs kill it off. Its a solid piece of gear that reliably does something that the competition doesn't yet have a full answer for. My father-in-law has a very large E-series cutaway based Class-C motor home with the 3V 6.8L V-10 in it and loves it. ITs got all the performance that he could want and gets much better gas mileage than his old early 90s GM medium chassis based Class-A with the old 454 that he parted with a few years ago. I still wonder about the 6.2L and 5.8L Boss engine and their use with CNG. Given CNG's different combustion characteristics, and its lower BTU content and resulting lower engine power levels, could a forced induction CNG 6.2L 4V boss be a workable medium duty solution? The 3 valve 6.8L is Super Duty only, the E series and the motorhome chassis continue with the old 2 valve 6.8L. Glad to hear your father in law is happy with his, I have some friends with a 2 valve 6.8L in a large class A and it is downright dangerous. As for the 4 valve Boss, I find the whole idea very interesting in light of the notion one that of the major points of the 'Boss' series was that it would offer good performance with a 2 valve head. Less expensive to produce than a 3 valve Mod., particularly the V-10. The 3 valve head was something of a 'crutch' for the Mod., the small bores and tight bore spacing caused intake valve shrouding and the 3 valve head helped address the issue. With the large bore of the 6.2L intake valve shrouding is not an issue even with the large valves the Boss has. So, why bother with a 4 valve head on what is supposed to be a relatively low cost truck engine? CNG? Ford whats you to buy a Powertsroke. Want a CNG Ford truck you are at the mercy of one of Ford's sketchy 'Qualified Vehicle Modifiers', that's my opinion. All I have to say about that is good luck........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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