akirby Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 And I admit I could be dead wrong, but I remember what happened to CTS when they raised the price and this is a much bigger jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Starting MSRP of $53,500 on the CT6 is the biggest one. Conti should be closer to $40K. XTS is $8K cheaper and probably has big rebates. No, I overheard a rep at NAIAS saying Conti will start at around 50k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Don't think so.. This replace the XTS and unofficially the CTS. With the XTS outselling MKS 2 to 1 what makes you think the Lincoln outsell the Caddy?. Conti doesn't have anything to do with MKS anymore than CT6 will have with XTS. Both cars are about resetting the bars and starting over. Once CT6 hit the showroom, XTS will be banished to fleet sale so let's just focus on Conti vs. CT6. Given the lower starting MSRP, I can see Conti selling better than CT6. Although to be fair, CTS will be in lower price range of Conti. CTS is roughly $45k to $80k CT6 is roughly $53k to $95k Conti will likely be $45k to $85k I'm going to guess Conti will outsell CTS and CT6 individually but Cadillac will probably outsell Lincoln on combined basis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 No, I overheard a rep at NAIAS saying Conti will start at around 50k That would be surprising if a 2.3LEB Conti started at $50K. Maybe the 3.0LEB....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 imho Conti will have a STRONG first 12 months while the CTsix not so much CT6 is roughly $53k to $95k...... to maybe $140k for a VCadillac CTsix ....... base >+4900> Lux >+3175> PremL >+19875> Platinum ...............loaded: ?????? ..... ?????? .... ?????? ........ 92,120 3.0TT Awd 404hp ...... ------ ..... 64,395 .... 67,570 ........ 87,465 3.6v6 Awd 335hp ...... 55,495 ..... 60,395 .... 63,570 ........ 83,465 2.0-T Rwd 272hp ...... 53,495 ..... 58,395 .... ------ ........ ------ & my best guesses Continental ........... P > +3290 >> S > +3765 >> R > +7235 >> [bL] ............. loaded: .....? ..... 67500 ...... 79500 ........ 81500 3.0T Awd+ 420hp ..... $52990?.....$56280 ..... $60045 ....... $67280 3.0T Fwd 350hp ...... $49990?.....$53280 ..... $57045 ....... $64280 3.7 Awd 270hp ....... $47990......$51280 ..... $55045 ....... $62280 3.7 Fwd 270hp ....... $45990 .... $49280 ..... $53045 ....... $60280 2.#T F/Awd 250-300hp > export only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Conti doesn't have anything to do with MKS anymore than CT6 will have with XTS. Both cars are about resetting the bars and starting over. Once CT6 hit the showroom, XTS will be banished to fleet sale so let's just focus on Conti vs. CT6. Given the lower starting MSRP, I can see Conti selling better than CT6. Although to be fair, CTS will be in lower price range of Conti. CTS is roughly $45k to $80k CT6 is roughly $53k to $95k Conti will likely be $45k to $85k I'm going to guess Conti will outsell CTS and CT6 individually but Cadillac will probably outsell Lincoln on combined basis. That's a good point - won't XTS still be around for a few years? That alone would take some sales from CT6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Meh.....I'll keep my Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 No, I overheard a rep at NAIAS saying Conti will start at around 50k Mu guess is that they will price it at $49,999.99999999999999and one ch, so people will look at the left most number and say, "Look, it's in the 40 thousand range!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Mu guess is that they will price it at $49,999.99999999999999and one ch, so people will look at the left most number and say, "Look, it's in the 40 thousand range!" My wife said the same thing when we heard that. Oh marketing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I still don't see the base model starting at $49K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) That's a good point - won't XTS still be around for a few years? That alone would take some sales from CT6. Lincoln has the same with MKT "town car"... I wouldn't worry about the XTS stealing sales from CT6 that much. They are different things for different people. CT6 and CTS will definitely cannibalize each other in retail sales. The value proposition of CTS is completely overshadowed by CT6... you have to be a crazy idiot to buy the CTS. CTS Premium 3.6 RWD = $62,685 CTS Premium 3.6 AWD = $64,685 CT6 Premium 3.6 AWD only = $63,570 Granted CTS will probably be heavily discounted... but the MSRP tells the story of value proposition. Edited January 28, 2016 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) ^ since the CTsix is not available yet, wonder if Cadillac will finagle the CTS msrp's between now & then? Edited January 28, 2016 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 CT6 and CTS will definitely cannibalize each other in retail sales. What I like is how, after spending over a decade trying to build brand equity in the CTS, they're not even renaming it and trying to transfer the CTS brand equity (such as it is) over to the CT6. They're just saying, "You know how you liked the CTS? Yeah, well, it sucks. And by extension, you suck for liking it. Buy this instead." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 What I like is how, after spending over a decade trying to build brand equity in the CTS, they're not even renaming it and trying to transfer the CTS brand equity (such as it is) over to the CT6. They're just saying, "You know how you liked the CTS? Yeah, well, it sucks. And by extension, you suck for liking it. Buy this instead." I'd be surprised if GM leadership had put that much thought into it. These changes in direction for Cadillac strike me more as management making things up as it goes along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Can't be German without letters and numbers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 And, apparently the right sort of letters and numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 ^ since the CTsix is not available yet, wonder if Cadillac will finagle the CTS msrp's between now & then? It hard to say because Cadillac seem like such a dysfunctional place right now. But any rational brand manager will put some MSRP daylight between two different size cars. So if your strategy now is "tweener" - selling bigger car for a price comparable to competitors' smaller cars, you ought to cut the prices on your own smaller cars so they compete with competitors' even smaller cars instead your own bigger car. Would Lincoln contemplate selling Continental for the same price as a similar equipped MKZ? If they do, I think the pundits will cry bloody murder and point out how Ford's strategy makes no sense. But this is Cadillac we are talking about and right now, they can't do wrong in the eyes of some industry pundits. Johan is a good PR man if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 forgot to post this CTS Premium 3.6 RWD = $62,685 CTS Premium 3.6 AWD = $64,685 CT6 Premium 3.6 AWD only = $63,570 XTS= 45,295/46,290 to 64,765(3.6TT) -to- 73,315(Vsport) to 77,773 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) What I like is how, after spending over a decade trying to build brand equity in the CTS, they're not even renaming it and trying to transfer the CTS brand equity (such as it is) over to the CT6. That effort paid off. A lot of folks - consumers and professional automotive reviewers alike - really like the CTS. All three generations of CTS were highly rated, with the current one lauded as one the best cars in its class. How does CT6 negatively affect brand equity of CTS? Edited January 29, 2016 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 That effort paid off. A lot of folks - consumers and professional automotive reviewers alike - really like the CTS. All three generations of CTS were highly rated, with the current one lauded as one the best cars in its class. How does CT6 negatively affect brand equity of CTS? Because they're throwing away the name and the brand equity so they can have a more German sounding naming scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) How does CT6 negatively affect brand equity of CTS? To add to Akirby's comment. Not only are they winding down the CTS (no scheduled replacement), they are positioning it alongside a larger and newer vehicle on a newer platform and pricing them right on top of each other. That can't help but make the CTS look bad by comparison. Edited January 29, 2016 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 To add to Akirby's comment. Not only are they winding down the CTS (no scheduled replacement), they are positioning it alongside a larger and newer vehicle on a newer platform and pricing them right on top of each other. That can't help but make the CTS look bad by comparison. It appears both CTS AND ATS will be replaced by a new "CT4" (basically undoing what they did with this generation of CTS and adding the ATS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 It appears both CTS AND ATS will be replaced by a new "CT4" (basically undoing what they did with this generation of CTS and adding the ATS). I thought there were plans for a CT2 and a CT4. Replacing ATS and CTS respectively, even though GM refuses to say that for whatever reason. Again, though they're not saying it, the CT6 is much more a successor to the STS than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 I thought there were plans for a CT2 and a CT4. Replacing ATS and CTS respectively, even though GM refuses to say that for whatever reason. Again, though they're not saying it, the CT6 is much more a successor to the STS than anything. I dunno, I've heard CT4 would essentially re-merge ATS and CTS, while a smaller-than ATS CT2 will come later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) What I like is how, after spending over a decade trying to build brand equity in the CTS, they're not even renaming it and trying to transfer the CTS brand equity (such as it is) over to the CT6. They're just saying, "You know how you liked the CTS? Yeah, well, it sucks. And by extension, you suck for liking it. Buy this instead." way to reconnect with your main buyer audience....not. Edited January 29, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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