rmc523 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 And that is why they will never be a true Mercedes, BMW, even Audi competitor.... They always give Lincoln the shitty end of the stick, just to give a half baked product.... With how much I love the LS even still now, that was half backed too..... That's why many call for the discontinuation of Lincoln like Mercury...... What's the point if you aren't going to give it your all..... At this point it's a waste, they won't grow much more, not without more R&D, better more luxurious products. YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY!!!!!! So Mercedes, BMW, and Audi redesign the entire lineup instantly every single time they introduce a new styling cue/direction on a new model? THE R&D IS BEING DONE NOW. THE "MORE" LUXURIOUS PRODUCTS ARE COMING. THE PAST CANNOT BE CHANGED. THE CURRENT CANNOT BE CHANGED (as critical styling elements are determined at least a year or two in advance). Would you rather they just tack a different grille on Ford models as they did in the past compared to the current lineup? How would that help the brand? The brand is progressing toward what we all want it to be....but it's just that....a progression. The products are coming.....the foundation for the brand is being laid while the products are being developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 You're right, Lincoln will never me Mercedes, BMW, et al. They don't need it to be. The goal is to make as much profit per vehicle as they can, not moving metal just for the sake of sales. Have you ever worked in a factory before? Based on your attitude and "we live comfortably" comment (which where I come from is code for rich boy, FYI. You did yourself no favors by saying that) you haven't. I've now worked in 2 assembly plants and am in process of experiencing first hand how complicated a new model launch is with the Continental. The first was the 2015 Focus refresh and while that was relatively minor as far as changes go, it was still an ordeal. The Lincoln is way more involved. Every car to this point that has been built has been gone over with a fine tooth comb, and we are still MONTHS away from job 1. It's still a long road ahead, this doesn't happen overnight. And oh by the way, they still haven't perfected the line processes, and they won't until after job 1, they almost never do. Stopping production in 5 assembly plants for the sake of doing a hard reset on the Lincoln lineup just isn't feasible. They wouldn't even do that for the Ford lineup. It still took them 5 years to revamp that. Look at what happened in 2014 when Ford did 23 product launches worldwide and look at the resulting quality issues that happened. That's the absolute LAST thing Lincoln needs is quality issues. Then there's the money aspect. It takes MILLIONS to retool a plant for a new model. Don't believe me? Look at the investment Michigan Assembly Plant is getting to retool from Focus/C-Max production to Ranger and Bronco production in the next 4 years. $900 million. By the time it's all said and done, that number could likely top $1 BILLION. For 2 models. You can look at the 2015 UAW contract if you don't believe me. So retooling 5 assembly plants, probably every stamping plant on some level, PLUS getting suppliers in order is an investment that not even GM would be stupid enough to do, and they wrote the book on questionable business decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 It's just stupid already.... The numbers speak for themselves.... I could see me looking/sounding like a jerk off if they had numbers like any other luxury brand on the market, but we're not..... Unfortunately, it's a dilapidated brand that was left in the uneducated siblings hands by the parent who made the wrong decision...... Obviously it will take time to bring in the cash flow to actually bring products to market..... I hope they can please everyone..... I think they are taking way too long, it will be well into the next decade before we see anything remotely different than the current brand portfolio...... By then, we could have a new CEO, designing team, etc.... I'm sure David won't stick around, we haven't been able to keep a good designer in years...... Who knows, maybe he will since he was a part oF PAG for years leading up to now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 So Mercedes, BMW, and Audi redesign the entire lineup instantly every single time they introduce a new styling cue/direction on a new model? THE R&D IS BEING DONE NOW. THE "MORE" LUXURIOUS PRODUCTS ARE COMING. THE PAST CANNOT BE CHANGED. THE CURRENT CANNOT BE CHANGED (as critical styling elements are determined at least a year or two in advance). Would you rather they just tack a different grille on Ford models as they did in the past compared to the current lineup? How would that help the brand? The brand is progressing toward what we all want it to be....but it's just that....a progression. The products are coming.....the foundation for the brand is being laid while the products are being developed. They did tack a different grille on Ford models. They called them Mercurys and they added nothing to the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Hahaha, you can't be serious.... What, do you think we won a lottery lmao? We work hard for our money.... Very hard, and we are definitely far from rich, then again everyone's definition is different. We live in a 2,000 sqft house, my dad drives a Chevy 1500, I drive a '02 LS, and my mom drives a 2010 MKZ.... That's definitely not rich, but we live comfortably enough to go and buy what we want when we want.... We don't drive S600's with 6.0 V12's lol or Rolls Royce Ghost or Bentley Flying Spur's for God's sake, we drive Lincoln's and Cadillac's (We alternate)...... You working in a Ford plant might bring in more income then us in some cases honestly..... I mean, our cost of living is completely different, we don't live remotely close to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Here's a little tune about factory workers..... I'm serious.... Click the YouTube Link. A little Rush for ya's.... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sI5VuBzo-Qc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Here's a little tune about factory workers..... I'm serious.... Click the YouTube Link. A little Rush for ya's.... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sI5VuBzo-Qc Uh, you're hard pressed to find a bigger Rush fan than me. That song isn't necessarily about factory workers. It's the working man in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Uh, you're hard pressed to find a bigger Rush fan than me. That song isn't necessarily about factory workers. It's the working man in general. Fuck outta here.... I'm the biggest Rush fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I know it's the working man in general, but it really spoke to all the factory workers in Cleveland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Wow I'm shocked I can't believe you love Rush..... How can't you though..... It's Rush..... The greatest band in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 You wanna see something? It's Rush related...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Are you ready to have your mind blown?!?! Are you ready to get Neil Peart all up in you?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I bet I know you Fuzzymoomoo.... Are you on Facebook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I bet I know you Fuzzymoomoo.... Are you on Facebook? A. I doubt you know me, 1. I'm older than you. 2. I don't think you live near me B. I am on Facebook but I don't give that out to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 So you still live with your parents? I'm guessing you bought that LS used a few years ago dirt cheap. I don't think you understand how vehicles are designed and built and how business finances work or how the market works beyond what you've read in Car and Driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 They did tack a different grille on Ford models. They called them Mercurys and they added nothing to the bottom line. I meant in the now instead of what we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 So you still live with your parents? I'm guessing you bought that LS used a few years ago dirt cheap. I don't think you understand how vehicles are designed and built and how business finances work or how the market works beyond what you've read in Car and Driver. We've already went over it all, I refuse to repeat myself any further..... I know Lincoln is a failure under every leadership since the 90's.... I know that.... I know every other brand outsells Lincoln, even Buick..... I know Lincoln's are gussied up Ford's.... I know that no matter what money they spend on this FWD ecoboost garbage, they will never make as much as the others...... It doesn't matter how much you cut costs, when you don't sell big, you don't make enough to justify the cost..... All those other brands sell huge at much higher prices, they don't spend much on R&D if they can't afford too. We run a successful business.... I don't need to hear from assembly line factory workers or whoever else you guys are that I don't know business.... If you guys were so great, you'd be running the show, not down in the trenches breaking your balls building cars..... You are right, we are different type of people..... They WILL pay the price, and they WILL count the cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I meant in the now instead of what we have. They still basically do though..... The interiors and exterior look a bit different..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 They still basically do though..... The interiors and exterior look a bit different..... Hardly. A bit different? Alright... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I would have thought P71 would have moved out of his parents' basement by now. Sheesh! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 hmm should this be locked or not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 hmm should this be locked or not.... Nah, I think we all see what's going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I would have thought P71 would have moved out of his parents' basement by now. Sheesh! Nah, I got it made.... Nice big bedroom...... Whatever I want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Nah, I think we all see what's going on here. I think it should be locked to be quite honest..... There should be no further replies, as my thread has been turned into some sort of weird mid-life-crisis crybabies..... I mean, do you really think Mark Fields cares about you? It's a business, they just care about the money! You fellas need to get off your high horse! The Lincoln brand is dead in the water without the new MKX and last years MKC! The products are stagnant and any one who disagrees in the fashion you guys have, while not even being luxury customers, shouldn't even bother! I could less what you think if you drive a Ford, I think that's what Lincoln's doing wrong. Asking Ford customers what they think about Lincoln.... It's really ashame to see this, and now I know why Lincoln is in its current condition, because they've listened to people like you, since all the actual luxury buyers left for the better brands who kept their vehicles up to date and the best. So sad, can't even get a decent sedan anymore, gotta resort to a dressed up stretched and widened Fusion with a really nice interior..... Guess we'll be heading back to Cadillac's, as I see Ford employees don't appreciate the people who put food on their table.... I got that cocky vibe at the Lincoln dealer too..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 So the products are stagnant except for the 3 COMPLETELY NEW vehicles introduced within the last 2 years (MKC, MKX, Continental). That's 50% of the portfolio. I owned a Lincoln LS in 1999. I also owned an Aviator. We now own a MKX. I know exactly what I'm talking about. We could go into detailed discussions (again) about how Lincoln got to this point and what they're doing to become relevant again, but you either won't understand it or you'll dismiss it completely just because it doesn't involve RWD and V8s. Go troll somewhere else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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