Lincoln RWD here we come...... Possibly new developments????

[Fgts]

What's been kicked around on the net is Mustang, a Lincoln sedan and a Taurus/possable Falcon/PI replacement on a new modular rwd platform

 

 

Starting around 20' with the Mustang with a possable Lincoln coupe first, the Lincoln 2nd (which doesn't replace MKZ or Continental but rather gose against CT5, E-Class or just plain a true LS replacement) and the Taurus debut around 22-23', of course this is the somewhat same platform that suppose to support the Explorer and off-shoots.

 

Sounds pretty plausible.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Fgts

[LincolnLover]

Sounds good to me fellas..... Exactly what I'm thinking.... Once we get official confirmation probably within the next 3 years that they actually are developing a LS replacement, we can then discuss the name, design, powertrain, etc...... And of course get really excited......

[rmc523]

Alternatively - could this mystery vehicle replace MKZ and move slightly up in size from the current model, with next-gen Conti bumping up a bit, and a new model slide under them both. I guess that's not much different than what I said earlier

[Fgts]

Sorry, but I want to address this falsehood...

 

GM invested billions in new platforms and new vehicles for Cadillac and they went bankrupt and even today they aren't seeing the volume they expected

Contradicting much?.

 

 

So MKZ, thunderbird, conti, stang and lincstang while explorer/aviator are built elsewhere, all on CD6 variants.

GM went BK because of no-one was buying Chevys, Buicks, Pontiacs, trucks and suvs, oh and the great recession might had something to do with it.., plus GMs Alpha was developed before the BK, basically making it a "free" platform from the bailout. Invest in a rwd Cadillac and go BK, gimme a break, lol. So when is Ford filing for CH11?....

[mettech]

Any news about a 48 v electric assist on the Mustang platform?

[akirby]

Sorry, but I want to address this falsehood...

 

Invest in a rwd Cadillac and go BK, gimme a break, lol. So when is Ford filing for CH11?....

Did I say that was the only reason they went bankrupt? If you spend big money on something and you don't see an immediate payback while the rest of your business is also losing money at the same time you go bankrupt. It was poor planning. Even today with modest sales from their newer vehicles it's debatable whether the huge investment in Cadillac is worth it.

 

By contrast Lincoln has built a solidly profitable lineup with minimal investment, and we're only talking about one new platform from Lincoln, not 3 or 4 like Caddy.

 

You still don't understand business finances.

[akirby]

And BTW - there is a huge difference in investing in new platforms when you're making billions in profit vs when you're just barely getting by or losing money.

 

If GM screws up Caddy now the company isn't in danger. That was not the case 8 years ago.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Any news about a 48 v electric assist on the Mustang platform?

Probably never.

[Fgts]

Did I say that was the only reason they went bankrupt? If you spend big money on something and you don't see an immediate payback while the rest of your business is also losing money at the same time you go bankrupt.

And Ford was heading that way too if Ford hadn't hire Allen M.. You still can't prove Cadillac caused the BK, in fact;

 

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/04/cadillac-contributed-roughly-15-billion-in-revenue-1-1-billion-in-profit-for-gm-in-2015/

 

Please spin that to tell me GM got it all wrong.

 

It was poor planning.

So it wasn't Cadillac....

 

Even today with modest sales from their newer vehicles it's debatable whether the huge investment in Cadillac is worth it.

 

With Lincoln sales in the crapper now how that even makes it more debatable, Mercury was killed even though it was selling dressed-Fords that led a gateway for potential Lincoln buyers. The average buyer would say "what would inspire me to buy Lincoln?", the sales show it. Hopefully Mark Fields can get Lincoln going faster then it is now.

 

By contrast Lincoln has built a solidly profitable lineup with minimal investment, and we're only talking about one new platform from Lincoln, not 3 or 4 like Caddy.

 

You still don't understand business finances.

So how much money Lincoln made for Ford?, what solid products?. Only the MKC, MKX and somewhat old Nav are competitive.

 

I see why the OP is pissed, can't be too cheap to compete in this field.

 

Also where's the magical 3 platforms other then (temporarily) Omega that Cadillac rides on?. Alpha is shared with Camaro, the soon doa ELR is on old Volt's platform, what is it?.

[ehaase]

And Ford was heading that way too if Ford hadn't hire Allen M.. You still can't prove Cadillac caused the BK, in fact;

 

I admire the disciplined way Mulally ran Ford, and I don't think he would have gone for pouring money into Lincoln with this new platform.

[fordmantpw]

Probably never.

 

If the Mustang shares a platform with other cars, it would be quite easy to add some electric assist. Personally, I think electric assist will be coming to nearly everything over the next 10-15 years.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

If the Mustang shares a platform with other cars, it would be quite easy to add some electric assist. Personally, I think electric assist will be coming to nearly everything over the next 10-15 years.

Not in the mustang though. I could be very surprised to see that.

[akirby]

I refuse to jump back into that mud pit. If you don't already understand how GM screwed up you'll never get it.

[fordmantpw]

Not in the mustang though. I could be very surprised to see that.

I bet you would have said he same about a 4 cylinder Mustang before EcoBoost too. Seriously, it's likely coming. And why not? Fun AND fuel economy!

[fuzzymoomoo]

I bet you would have said he same about a 4 cylinder Mustang before EcoBoost too. Seriously, it's likely coming. And why not? Fun AND fuel economy!

Knowing the history of the Mustang, I would have never doubted a 4 cylinder would make a comeback.

[jpd80]

And Ford was heading that way too if Ford hadn't hire Allen M.. You still can't prove Cadillac caused the BK, in fact;

 

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/04/cadillac-contributed-roughly-15-billion-in-revenue-1-1-billion-in-profit-for-gm-in-2015/

 

Please spin that to tell me GM got it all wrong.

 

 

So it wasn't Cadillac....

I have to agree with you in that a company going bankrupt to the order of $88 billion cannot lay that all at Cadillac's feet.

 

Cadillac was seen as a brand worth saving and snce most of the development was done those costs were carried with Cadilalc

and paid down by New GM via its Escrow fund. Remember in 2009, Cadillac announced 10 new models in the next four years?

Combine that with expansion plans oin China and we're close to $10 Billion so that $12 billion spend in the next four years

shouldn't be a big surprise.

 

Now, to put that spend in perspective, Cadillac had an estimated $15 billion revenue last year, so $22 billion invested in products

and manufacturing facilities over a decade is not an unreasonable amount.

 

The question remains as to whether Lincoln with around a quarter of that investment on shared platforms in Ford plants that cover

the bulk of fixed costs ads up to a less risky path that gives a quicker ROI?

 

And then's the eternal problem for Lincoln, convincing the Ford suits to take a chance and gamble a little...

Edited May 1, 2016 by jpd80

[probowler]

Considering just how monumentally bad Lincoln was 10 years ago.... i think we should just be happy with where we are now.... and trust the guys up top to make Lincoln relevant again.

 

The Continental is a fantastic start... now lets see what else they can do.

[J-150]

 

And then's the eternal problem for Lincoln, convincing the Ford suits to take a chance and gamble a little...

I think the aluminum F150 was a bigger gamble.

[silvrsvt]

I think the aluminum F150 was a bigger gamble.

 

Given how important the F-series is to Ford, I agree with you...

 

As for the RWD Lincoln...IMO kind of irreverent in this day and age...all it would do is give Lincoln bragging rights in magazines..and given how much the press seems to gush over Caddy's Sedans...they aren't the ones experiencing growth...their CUV's are. If anything the lack of a larger CUV based on the Explorer is more important..but we know that is coming.

 

Further more a RWD Mustang based Lincoln would sell in very small numbers and wouldn't do much to advance Lincoln in the eyes of buyers. It would be about bragging rights and would sell like the Corvette based Caddy a few years ago. I have no doubts that the new Mustang platform can be made into a competent Luxury car given that many Lexus RWD platforms are around 20-25 years old (improved upon since then) and I don't see any reason why a vastly improved S197 with IRS can't spin off a RWD Lincoln if Ford wanted...but its not really needed.

 

Like I've saying forever...Lincoln is the profit frosting on the Ford cake. FFS, if you want to get down to it, Ford is largest luxury "car" maker out there with all the 40-50-60K F-series they sell!

[jpd80]

This all comes down to what Ford says and what it's comfortable doing, I guess that's the point.

Do RWD based products reach and connect with more luxury buyers or is that a fallacy

perpetuated by us wanting "nice to have" products not justified by sales projections.

 

Is this Ford/lincoln stripped down to the essentials and rebuilt to make money....

Edited May 2, 2016 by jpd80

[LincolnLover]

I believe that is quite clear that RWD-biased vehicles would bring more luxury buyers to the Lincoln brand..... The reality is, many people, especially young inexperienced luxury buyers who just go with what the status quo is, aka BMW or MB, don't even look at Lincoln's.... There's many people who don't cross shop with Lincoln's because they want RWD/RWD-biased AWD, and larger, more elaborate power plants than an I4 or TT V6...... They want the V8 that will make people say, "holy schnikes that's got a V8", which is what I say when I see an Audi A8L with a W12 or a Mercedes S-class S600 with a W12, etc..... Lincoln's don't have that wow factor, other than good, maybe great looks (apparently not good enough) and comfortable, homey interiors, that lack the "high end luxury" appearance that Mercedes gives. My biggest qualm with the interior is lack of wood trim, too much black..... I think I'd drive any current/upcoming Lincoln, except the current MKZ, and the current 3.5 TT V6 Navigator....... However, as I said, I'd be much happier with more elaborate powertrains, especially the RWD aspect..... I mean, there's no denying there's a difference when every fathomable luxury brand offers their flagship at the least in RWD/RWD-bias AWD..... I already know what you're going to say.... What about Audi? Well, the Audi A8 is RWD biased AWD, unless wintry conditions and power is positioned to the front, and they longitudinally mount the engines....... Not shitting on Lincoln, just stating the facts..... When 2020 comes around, or maybe sooner and details start to trickle down, maybe we'll get a taste of the future.... I think a lot of people would be happy with a sporty RWD biased sedan/coupe/convertible with a 5.0 or something, FWD-biased MKZ, RWD biased Continental with a small V8 option, FWD MKC, FWD MKX, RWD Aviator, RWD Navigator with a 5.0...... That's an extremely fair portfolio that I'm sure will enlarge further than that with more models/sub model choices......

Edited May 2, 2016 by LincolnLover

[akirby]

By all accounts Caddy's new RWD sedans are technically excellent and would appeal to any of those buyers you mentioned - yet their sales have been tepid. People who won't buy a FWD Lincoln or Caddy won't buy a RWD Lincoln or Caddy either.

 

You're confusing a few enthusiasts with a large base of potential buyers. It is absolutely not imperative that Lincoln do any of the RWD high performance vehicles we've been discussing.

 

So why would Ford do it? Because after you've got the FWD vehicles covered it's a good way to increase ATP and profits per vehicle and grow market share. The key is to be able to share such a platform across many vehicles which is why I think mustang will move to a CD6 variant.

 

Look at what they're doing with Ford performance - Focus RS, Mustang GT360, Ford GT. I see no reason why they wouldn't want to do the same thing with Lincoln vehicles long term. A mustang based coupe and convertible would not be huge sellers but they would generate big ATPs and give Ford/Lincoln buyers an upgrade path that keeps them in a Ford.

[rmc523]

I also think you're vastly overrating the desire for a V8. I think the average luxury buyer worries more about (or perhaps notices is a better word) power delivery than "oh it's got a V8?!??!!!" Sure you'll have some that will refuse to buy anything but a V8, but the entire industry is moving away from them except for some high performance applications.

[akirby]

You mean like the myth that BMW owners buy BMWs because they're RWD?

 

 

Speaking to analysts following the release of BMW’s 2009 financial results last week, CEO Norbert Reithofer revealed that 80 percent of 1-series owners believe they are driving a front-wheel drive car.

[akirby]

This "gotta have a V8" is a leftover from the days before modern forced induction where that was the only way to get good power and for those who want the rumble of a muscle car.

 

Neither is applicable in today's market. A refined 3.0 GTDI engine producing 400+ HP is more appealing to the average luxury buyer than a NA 5.0L Coyote producing the same power.

 

And the majority of those buyers don't care which direction the engine faces, either as long as sounds and feels refined.