Biker16 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Ford prioritized a platform with an average ATP of over $42K and potential sales of almost 1M/yr ahead of 2 platforms with avg ATPs closer to $20K whose sales are currently falling due to gas prices? Bravo Ford, Bravo! I noticed Honda, Nissan, GM, Toyota, Hyndai, and VW don't seem to have this problem. Can you say you are fully funding funding product development if you cannot sustain a reasonable product replacement cadence? Are Fiesta and Focus sales down because of Fuel prices or because they are the oldest vehicles in their segments? Civic sales up 19.9% YTD Fit sales up 6.3% in june HR-V sales at 36,000 units in 2016 up Combined Civic, HR-V and Fit sales up 22% to 254,000 units in the half of 2016. Imange how bad Ford car sales will be with another 18-24 months without updated products on the market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) Ford is always in a state of transformation, trying to tweak its global business and scaling for a huge number of factories which I'm sure is part of their longish product cadence. However, for the most part, Ford MCEs are regular and thorough so I'm not sure the age of a generation is really relevant in Ford's case. Ford has historically had extremely long product cycles with many very mild updates along the way, so today's Ford is actually much more regular about their product changeovers with a clear future for each model. There are a few exceptions right now since Ford has abandoned a few products currently sold in the US, like the Taurus and Flex, and of course the Expedition/Navigator are living relics unlike anything else still sold as new. But we know what the future holds for just about everything currently long in the tooth so it's not as foggy as it can be for many other carmakers which don't always have clear engineering lifecycles for all of their products. I think we've just reached the elderly point for many Ford products just ahead of a major product and manufacturing shakeup at the end of this decade which is part of their long game and a major undertaking. Although I'm also impatient, I'm excited to see a busy 2018/19 with a few nice updates until then and Ford is currently in the best condition it has ever been. Edited July 7, 2016 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 A far more reasonable #3 would be that Ford imports the Taurus from China, which now seems quite possible thanks to Buick. Why import a car from China when you can build with a car that shares significant amount of its manufacturing base with it here? Personally I think its just going to die off since the large car market keeps shrinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Civic sales up 19.9% YTD Fit sales up 6.3% in june HR-V sales at 36,000 units in 2016 up Combined Civic, HR-V and Fit sales up 22% to 254,000 units in the half of 2016. Hmm my sales chart says Fit sales are down 32% overall for the year couldn't find anything newer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) Why import a car from China when you can build with a car that shares significant amount of its manufacturing base with it here? Personally I think its just going to die off since the large car market keeps shrinking. Volume. If they're not going to make a lot of them, there's a point where it'll cost more than it's worth to produce them at FRAP. Edited July 9, 2016 by rmc523 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I noticed Honda, Nissan, GM, Toyota, Hyndai, and VW don't seem to have this problem. Can you say you are fully funding funding product development if you cannot sustain a reasonable product replacement cadence? Are Fiesta and Focus sales down because of Fuel prices or because they are the oldest vehicles in their segments? The answer is both. Imagine how bad Ford car sales will be with another 18-24 months without updated products on the market? why would you even say that when spy shots of next gen cars are already out there... Imagine if Ford is already well advanced with dong all the things you think it should, and the new products arrive just as gas prices begin to climb.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Volume. If they're not going to make a lot of them, there's a point where it's cost more than it's worth to produce them at FRAP. But at the same time the stigma of selling a car made in China in the states might not sit well with UAW or Ford buyers either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 The political backlash would not be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 The political backlash would not be worth it. I don't know, GM seems to think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Long Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 The political backlash would not be worth it. People felt the same about Mexico before NAFTA. We will be buying several different "American" car models made in China within the next 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I don't know, GM seems to think it is. And they've never been wrong.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 People felt the same about Mexico before NAFTA. We will be buying several different "American" car models made in China within the next 10 years. The only issue with Mexico is labor. China is a whole other ballgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I refuse to buy a car from a country in which the Yulin Dog Meat festival happens. Their outrageous cruelty to life in general is something that enrages me anytime I think of China and I think people need to be reminded of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 We will be buying several different "American" car models made in China within the next 10 years. The issue is the distance involved and associated shipping costs involved....lots cheaper to be moved via rail from Mexico then by ship from China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 The issue is the distance involved and associated shipping costs involved....lots cheaper to be moved via rail from Mexico then by ship from China. Only if you assume that the model's primary market will be USA / NA. For Mexico, that is usually true, but even for Fusion Brazil is a significant market. For China, we will see imports for models primarily sold there, with few units shipped overseas. Much cheaper to ship some models across the pacific than to spin up a second plant for just a few units. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 7 Seventh generation (19801986) 6 8 Eighth generation (19871991) 4 9 Ninth generation (19921997) 6 10 Tenth generation (19972003) 6 11 Eleventh generation (20042008) 5 12 Twelfth generation (20092014) 5 13 Thirteenth generation (2015present) 5 to say that Ford has been on 7 year replacement cycle has only been true for every model except the F150. You are off one year per generation. Example 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86 is 7 year, not 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Hmm my sales chart says Fit sales are down 32% overall for the year couldn't find anything newer.... you should try harder Reread my post up in 3.7% in june http://www.hondanews.com/honda-corporate/releases/american-honda-reports-june-sales-increase-setting-new-records-for-light-trucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 why would you even say that when spy shots of next gen cars are already out there... Imagine if Ford is already well advanced with dong all the things you think it should, and the new products arrive just as gas prices begin to climb.. How would spy shots of a new model 24 months from now will cause Sales to increase, unless ford increases the 3,000 in cash currently on the hood for the Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 you should try harder Reread my post up in 3.7% in june http://www.hondanews.com/honda-corporate/releases/american-honda-reports-june-sales-increase-setting-new-records-for-light-trucks Yeah, that's one months. Still down 23.1% for the year, or did you conveniently miss that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 you should try harder Reread my post up in 3.7% in June But still down 23.1% YTD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Monthly aberrations don't mean much. Seasonal rebates, inventory control....hell weather can impact one month's sales. Besides, you can't cherry pick YTD stats for one vehicle and monthly for another to try and prove a point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Yeah, that's one months. Still down 23.1% for the year, or did you conveniently miss that? But still down 23.1% YTD. Monthly aberrations don't mean much. Seasonal rebates, inventory control....hell weather can impact one month's sales. Besides, you can't cherry pick YTD stats for one vehicle and monthly for another to try and prove a point. Combined Civic, HR-V and Fit sales up 22% to 254,000 units in the half of 2016 That would be close to 500,000 unit for 2016 at the current pace. In comparison Focus and fiesta sales are. 128,000 or 51% of Honda sales and down 16% for the first 6 months of 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Who really cares, cars are being overtaken by Utility and truck sales - Ford is crying all the way to the bank. The new models will come when Ford is good and ready, global product timing as determined by Ford Europe takes precedent over any local concerns. I think it was this way with C170 and IIRC, you voiced similar concerns then too... this product cycle is on a similar glide path. Edited July 10, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Ford is strong in areas others are weak in, that's how it tends to work in the business especially since it's cyclical. Ford has largely surrendered the small car market in the US but continues to dominate that segment globally...although less so recently as the models age. That may change with the next generation Focus which might be more competitive in the US (Focus mules have been running around in the us with Twist beam suspension suggestion a 'dumbing down' for the US and Chinese market). With regard to small crossovers, I think Ford just made some early decisions that have handicapped them today, EcoSport was too early for OneFord and now Ford is stuck trying to sort out how to address the other markets where the segment is large and more premium. This is certainly lack of insight or planning at Ford, but they'll get there eventually. Ford has done a great job prioritizing products. Edited July 10, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 ...(Focus mules have been running around in the us with Twist beam suspension suggestion a 'dumbing down' for the US and Chinese market)... due to hints that I interpret as more small variants coming, wonder if the U.S** could get both (all) mechanical versions...in one model or a nother? also still nursing a suspicion about a (more) one-piece rear axle being easier to swap with a (mostly) self-contained 'electro-axle' = simplistic/affordable VirtualAwd hybrids & plug-ins ** maybe urban-VS-rural China too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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