Lincoln at the 2016 Miami International Auto Show

[RichardJensen]

a luxury factory in

 

Alabama or South Carolina

[grbeck]

The Cadillac "luxury factory" has exacting standards? Reviewer criticisms regarding the fit-and-finish of various Cadillacs have been pretty constant.

 

Also note that the Cadillac Escalade is built at GM's Arlington, Texas, plant, along with its Chevrolet and GMC siblings. The Cadillac CT6 is built at the Detroit/Hamtramck plant, which also produces the Chevrolet Impala and Malibu. The Cadillac XT5 is built at the old Saturn plant in Spring Hill, Tennessee, which also makes the Chevrolet Equinox. The Cadillac ATS and CTS are produced in Lansing, Michigan, along with the Chevrolet Camaro.

 

Is there really any such thing as a Cadillac "luxury factory" in 2016?

Edited September 20, 2016 by grbeck

[jniffen]

 

Now for the Navigator concept...

this was my first time seeing it in person. Unlike Continental, it was not at the local Fort Lauderdale show (which occurs after the major shows, which is why we were able to have a production Conti there last year). As you can see in the pictures below, there was a crowd around it - more so than what I've seen around the Lincoln stand in years. There was quite a buzz about it - people were excited about a new Navigator. My favorite reaction to it was this young kid - maybe 8 or so - who walked up, gasped and put his hands on his mouth. It was exciting to see such interest in a Lincoln vehicle.

The vehicle itself actually looked great. I know it's a concept and some of the concept features won't make it, but I actually think it will benefit from the production transition. The "bones" of the design look great in person, and it really has a presence. The interior looked fantastic. I loved the color combination and overall clean design. As with the Conti, feel free to ask any questions.

 

From these two pictures it really reminds me of a Flex.

Love shouting out "Flex!" with my wife in the car when one passes by.

[brucelinc]

When it comes to the Black Label Continental, my humble opinion is that BL adds a lot of cost with not much value. The themes are either love'em or hate'em. The additional services are questionable. High volume dealers in my area offer several of the services whether they are BL or not.

 

Secondly, the rear seat package might be a hot item in China but I question how popular it is in the states. Again, it adds a lot to the cost. The "luxury package" is also crazy expensive. It just adds the top line sound system and the LED headlights.

 

My point is that you can get a Reserve series with the 3.0/AWD/Dynamic torque vectoring, tech package, Climate package, moonroof, Revel audio, etc. and it stickers around $67,000. They can be bought or leased in my area with invoice pricing - just under $63,000. There are no cash incentives at the moment but there is 0% financing.

 

While this might be a stopgap vehicle with roots in a much less expensive platform, I think it offers a reasonable value and is a lot of car compared to the competition.

[akirby]

I think Black Label caters to those who desire high style and just being able to say you have the best and for whom money is no object. We couldn't justify it either on our MKX.

[BORG]

When you shop European luxury brands you get a different perspective on 'value' of something. Black Label, especially when you buy a loaded Lincoln, is a minor cost that comes with some tangible differences. The only problem with Black Label is that it does very little with the exterior of the car besides wheels and maybe a weird garish color (MKX BL grille is actually very nice). The services aren't a big draw for me either, but if they fetch my car for service then that's something. I would probably get a Black Label MKX but I don't like any of the styles offered. The Continental Chalet is very nice however.

 

I think Lincoln interiors are doing amazing things for their pricing, but from the outside they lack a distinctive or alluring visual style.

Edited September 22, 2016 by BORG

[brucelinc]

Pick up and delivery for service is not BL exclusive - it is available on any 2017 Lincoln. Since I service my own cars and am fussier than most, it would be a cold day in hell before a stranger drives it, details it or services it but that is just me.

 

None of the "themes" appeal to me. I do wish they would allow more flexibility of interior colors and wood trim, though. If someone wants shining wood with a light colored interior or if they want open pore wood with a black interior, why not allow that level of choice? I was playing around with Jaguar's build & price and they seem to give the buyer much more latitude in personalization. Not sure if other manufacturers do that or not.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Pick up and delivery for service is not BL exclusive - it is available on any 2017 Lincoln. Since I service my own cars and am fussier than most, it would be a cold day in hell before a stranger drives it, details it or services it but that is just me.

 

None of the "themes" appeal to me. I do wish they would allow more flexibility of interior colors and wood trim, though. If someone wants shining wood with a light colored interior or if they want open pore wood with a black interior, why not allow that level of choice? I was playing around with Jaguar's build & price and they seem to give the buyer much more latitude in personalization. Not sure if other manufacturers do that or not.

Re: jaguar

 

I think that's because their manufacturing process is a little less automated and a little more hand-built than most other higher volume manufacturers, but I could be wrong.

[silvrsvt]

I think Lincoln interiors are doing amazing things for their pricing, but from the outside they lack a distinctive or alluring visual style.

 

For someone who owns a Lincoln, you sure don't seem to like them. I guess since you don't have A-plan access any more you can see if life is any better on the side of the grass and bellyache about them then.

[akirby]

 

For someone who owns a Lincoln, you sure don't seem to like them. I guess since you don't have A-plan access any more you can see if life is any better on the side of the grass and bellyache about them then.

 

But then he wouldn't have anything to complain about.

[BORG]

 

For someone who owns a Lincoln, you sure don't seem to like them. I guess since you don't have A-plan access any more you can see if life is any better on the side of the grass and bellyache about them then.

 

 

I don't like the way they look, or the transmission, but I still love the view from inside and they are considerably more fun to drive than they use to be. The problem now is that I think Lincolns are starting to look as dull and flabby as Buicks which is the worst sin you can make in my book and why I definitely won't buy another with the new design. MKX is still a candidate until it gets that dopey stubby frowny grille.

Edited September 22, 2016 by BORG

[rmc523]

When you shop European luxury brands you get a different perspective on 'value' of something. Black Label, especially when you buy a loaded Lincoln, is a minor cost that comes with some tangible differences. The only problem with Black Label is that it does very little with the exterior of the car besides wheels and maybe a weird garish color (MKX BL grille is actually very nice). The services aren't a big draw for me either, but if they fetch my car for service then that's something. I would probably get a Black Label MKX but I don't like any of the styles offered. The Continental Chalet is very nice however.

 

I think Lincoln interiors are doing amazing things for their pricing, but from the outside they lack a distinctive or alluring visual style.

What in your opinion -in the context of the existing design- would give it "distinctive or alluring visual style?" How could they do that without a redesign? Do you mean something simple like a grille change or something else?

 

Pick up and delivery for service is not BL exclusive - it is available on any 2017 Lincoln. Since I service my own cars and am fussier than most, it would be a cold day in hell before a stranger drives it, details it or services it but that is just me.

 

None of the "themes" appeal to me. I do wish they would allow more flexibility of interior colors and wood trim, though. If someone wants shining wood with a light colored interior or if they want open pore wood with a black interior, why not allow that level of choice? I was playing around with Jaguar's build & price and they seem to give the buyer much more latitude in personalization. Not sure if other manufacturers do that or not.

Until 2017, the service pickup was a Black Label only perk, but yes it's now "standard" on any model. While you might not use it, I can certainly see the benefit to the service. It'd be handy for those that work long hours and are unable to make it to a dealer within operating hours without taking a day off to do so. I'd venture to guess most won't use it, but it's a way to differentiate the brand.

 

I agree with your criticism of the themes' limitations, but I think the current Black Label "setup" is only the first step, and I think over time we will see it become a more bespoke program that offers complete customer control of interior colors, wood type, etc. in addition to the "designer-recommended/developed" themes.

 

One major criticism I have of Black Label right now are exterior color choices. It seems all you can get are black, silver, white, and red. No blue at all? Rhapsody Continental is the only Black Label model you can get blue exterior paint on.

[silvrsvt]

 

 

I don't like the way they look, or the transmission, but I still love the view from inside and they are considerably more fun to drive than they use to be. The problem now is that I think Lincolns are starting to look as dull and flabby as Buicks which is the worst sin you can make in my book and why I definitely won't buy another with the new design. MKX is still a candidate until it gets that dopey stubby frowny grille.

 

The problem is that your interjecting what you want in a luxury car, when it seems the only reason you bought it was because you had access to a nice discount (A plan)

 

The way I take this is that you want Lincoln to be a BMW, Caddy, Audi etc

 

Its not really constructive criticism...its more like microaggressions...

[tbone]

Let's not inject "microaggession" terminology into auto discussions. Let them keep that rediculousness on the college campuses.

[silvrsvt]

Let's not inject "microaggession" terminology into auto discussions. Let them keep that rediculousness on the college campuses.

 

LOL Why did you think I used that term

[Harley Lover]

 

The problem is that your interjecting what you want in a luxury car, when it seems the only reason you bought it was because you had access to a nice discount (A plan)

 

The way I take this is that you want Lincoln to be a BMW, Caddy, Audi etc

 

Its not really constructive criticism...its more like microaggressions...

 

You've taken 2 personal shots at Borg in this thread regarding A plan. Enough already. Kudos to Borg for ignoring the bait.

[akirby]

You've taken 2 personal shots at Borg in this thread regarding A plan. Enough already. Kudos to Borg for ignoring the bait.

That's not baiting - just a reasonable conclusion based on his posts.

[pictor]

Intrestingly most audi's are very conservatively styled on the exterior but are usually highly praised on the interior. I am a little confused exactly what Borg really wants in a car but then what anybody wants compared to what they need is subjective. That being said I really like the minimalist interior in my A3, but again, that is subjective.

[tbone]

The last time I checked, this is a free country and people can buy what they want. When some third party begins to tell people what they "need" we have a problem.

[2b2]

What in your opinion -in the context of the existing design- would give it "distinctive or alluring visual style?" How could they do that without a redesign? Do you mean something simple like a grille change or something else?

 

 

Until 2017, the service pickup was a Black Label only perk, but yes it's now "standard" on any model. While you might not use it, I can certainly see the benefit to the service. It'd be handy for those that work long hours and are unable to make it to a dealer within operating hours without taking a day off to do so. I'd venture to guess most won't use it, but it's a way to differentiate the brand.

 

I agree with your criticism of the themes' limitations, but I think the current Black Label "setup" is only the first step, and I think over time we will see it become a more bespoke program that offers complete customer control of interior colors, wood type, etc. in addition to the "designer-recommended/developed" themes...

 

 

One major criticism I have of Black Label right now are exterior color choices. It seems all you can get are black, silver, white, and red. No blue at all? Rhapsody Continental is the only Black Label model you can get blue exterior paint on.

if I'm reading right,

the Sept 1 OG shows either Chalet or Rhapsody interiors available with the Rhapsody paint

Edited September 23, 2016 by 2b2

[fuzzymoomoo]

The last time I checked, this is a free country and people can buy what they want. When some third party begins to tell people what they "need" we have a problem.

I bitch about that all the time. Drives me crazy when people tell me what I should buy because I'm a millennial.

 

I might be a millennial, but I don't act like it.

[rmc523]

 

 

if I'm reading right,

the Sept 1 OG shows either Chalet or Rhapsody interiors available with the Rhapsody paint

 

Either way, you can't get blue paint on anything but Conti BL.

 

Like MKX or MKC.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Either way, you can't get blue paint on anything but Conti BL.

 

Like MKX or MKC.

Meh. The shade of blue they use isn't all that great anyway.

[rmc523]

Meh. The shade of blue they use isn't all that great anyway.

 

Point is, they should have a good blue available. Not everyone wants gray black or silver.

[2b2]

 

Either way, you can't get blue paint on anything but Conti BL.

 

Like MKX or MKC.

 

I'm still confused ...( tho agree can't understand the BlueOval not alWays offering blue paint )... the non-BL Conti & Z & X & T & Navi offer MidnightSapphire (just noticed same code "N1" as BlueJeans)