akirby Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I presume they mentioned competitors like the 5 series and A6 because the pricing is more in line with the mid sizers. Probably but that has never made sense to me. Even if people shop that way it doesn't make sense in a technical comparison when you're talking about comfort, room, mpg and performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Probably but that has never made sense to me. Even if people shop that way it doesn't make sense in a technical comparison when you're talking about comfort, room, mpg and performance. Extended length BMW 7-Series (G12) is a class above the Continental in comfort, room, mpg, and performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) I agree, Akirby. Just for fun, I went to the build & price sites for the A6, 5 series, Lexus GS, E class and Cadillac XTS to configure those models the way I would want one. All turned out to be more expensive than the Continental when equipped as closely as I could. Only the Cadillac matched the size and power of the Lincoln but it was the most expensive of all. The 7 series, S class, LS, or A8 are all much more expensive but I would never claim that the Conti reached to that level of refinement, quality or content. My opinion is that the Conti plays well in that 55-65k price range. You can option it higher but when looking at a 75-80k price range, some of the basic shortcomings become harder to accept. Edited October 31, 2016 by brucelinc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Extended length BMW 7-Series (G12) is a class above the Continental in comfort, room, mpg, and performance. G11 is what I quoted, not the longer G12. And if by comparison the regular 7 series has more room, comfort, mpg and performance to go with the much higher price tag then that's what should be reported. You could probably say the same thing about the 5 series compared to the Conti - the Conti has much more room and comfort at the same or lower cost. Why not compare it to a 3 series? The 3 series would be a lot cheaper. Apples to apples and point out the differences. Don't pick an orange just because it's the same price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) The Continental and XTS are something of a subset, there really is no direct European or Japanese competition. They are very unique to Detroit and have been for decades. Continental is very classic Lincoln, low cost and very ornamental luxury, very light on chassis sophistication. We are still slowly inching our way back to something more bespoke and better developed. Edited October 31, 2016 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 The Continental and XTS are something of a subset, there really is no direct European or Japanese competition. They are very unique to Detroit and have been for decades. Continental is very classic Lincoln, low cost and very ornamental luxury, very light on chassis sophistication. We are still slowly inching our way back to something more bespoke and better developed. Good post. Continental and XTS, and MKS and DTS that preceded them, are unique among luxury sedans in that sense. They're specifically designed for customers in North America and China, whereas the European and Japanese luxury sedans are for a global audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lincoln/continental/2017/2017-lincoln-continental-black-label-awd-first-drive-review/ I never cease to be amazed. I expected Motor Trend to be the MOST critical of the Continental - if they bothered to review it at all. Instead, they seem to actually respect it. This review is actually pretty accurate, too. I still think the Reserve without the LED headlights and the rear seat package is a more compelling value than the BL but that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Wow - somebody didn't get the corporate memo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I sure as hell hope they don't name it Car of the Year. That would be the kiss of death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I sure as hell hope they don't name it Car of the Year. That would be the kiss of death. Ford won't pay for it so no danger there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I sure as hell hope they don't name it Car of the Year. That would be the kiss of death. They won't. Criteria for Motor Trend's Car of the Year are: - Advancement in Design - Value - Performance of Intended Function - Safety - Engineering Excellence - Efficiency Continental doesn't set benchmarks in any of those. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 They won't. Criteria for Motor Trend's Car of the Year are: - Advancement in Design - Value - Performance of Intended Function - Safety - Engineering Excellence - Efficiency - $$$ contributed by the manufacturer towards winning Continental doesn't set benchmarks in any of those. FTFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 They won't. Criteria for Motor Trend's Car of the Year are: - Advancement in Design - Value - Performance of Intended Function - Safety - Engineering Excellence - Efficiency Continental doesn't set benchmarks in any of those. It's based almost entirely on how you plan to market the award which includes free advertising for MT. This has been confirmed by people who worked at MT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I was obviously joking when I mentioned COTY. However, if the criteria that is listed is accurate, I would consider the e-latch doors with power cinch in this price class to be an advancement in design. Same for the 30 way seats. Lexus and Audi are trying to see how grotesque they can make their grills and Cadillac is trying to see how many different and bizarre styling cues they can stick into their interiors and onto their exteriors. Meanwhile, the Conti has gone to a more conservative and cohesive design. The term "quiet luxury" is not about decibels. It is about a design that is mature, graceful and more stately than extravagant. Not a new concept but something a bit different in this segment. I would say they absolutely nailed it in performance of intended function category. It is precisely what they intended. Safety is likely as good as any its class, too. Clearly, there is nothing special about the engineering or efficiency but few other vehicles have raised the bar in those categories this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I think that was a fair and accurate review. I believe that is exactly what Lincoln aimed for. I hope the rest of the line up will follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 What is important is that it appeals to people who would actually consider buying one - not how it finishes in a comparison test or what a reviewer thinks. CTS and ATS were fine vehicles on their own but they do not appeal to Cadillac buyers as much as they hoped. You can build a better BMW or iPhone but unless it comes with the brand name people aren't interested.\ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) I bet we'll see a comparison test in the not too distant future. The question is, who will it go up against. I tend to like comparison testing because it usually brings a more defined strengths and weaknesses for each vehicle. I really think the sweet spot will be 55-65 MSRP. A 2.7 reserve seems like a good bang for your luxury buck. While Black Label is fantastic and takes it even further, once you get to that price point, more appealing cars start to appear. Edited November 2, 2016 by jcartwright99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) I bet we'll see a comparison test in the not too distant future. The question is, who will it go up against. I tend to like comparison testing because it usually brings a more defined strengths and weaknesses for each vehicle. I really think the sweet spot will be 55-65 MSRP. A 2.7 reserve seems like a good bang for your luxury buck. While Black Label is fantastic and takes it even further, once you get to that price point, more appealing cars start to appear.Absolutely spot on. The only difference I would suggest would be the 3.0, not only because it is very strong and refined but because it comes with torque vectoring. You can still stay in the sweet spot price wise if you can make do with 24 way seats and the 10 speaker sound system. As BORG said earlier, the XTS is the most natural competitor. Otherwise, I suppose the Genesis G80 and Volvo S 90 are in that category. I sure am glad Lincoln is going back to names! Edited November 2, 2016 by brucelinc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I could be wrong but I thought, all models of the Continental with AWD got the torque vectoring system? I thought somebody in the know on here made that statement. Also, the 3.0 is reserve and Black Label only starting just under 60k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) I am certain that only the 3.0 has the torque vectoring. The typical buyer probably will never push the hard enough for it to make much difference, though. Yes, 3.0 is Reserve or BL only. The Reserve is 60k and is pretty well loaded. Add the moonroof and the tech package which has the lane keeping, adaptive cruise, parking assist, etc. and that would bring it close to 65k. Edited November 2, 2016 by brucelinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I am certain that only the 3.0 has the torque vectoring. Correct. Torque vectoring requires the 3.0LGTDI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lincoln/continental/2017/2017-lincoln-continental-black-label-awd-first-drive-review/ I never cease to be amazed. I expected Motor Trend to be the MOST critical of the Continental - if they bothered to review it at all. Instead, they seem to actually respect it. This review is actually pretty accurate, too. I still think the Reserve without the LED headlights and the rear seat package is a more compelling value than the BL but that is just me. I don't think the standard headlamps are suitable for the Continental, especially since it has such a sedate design, the details are what make the car. The standard lights don't even have LED turn indicators which shocked the hell out of me when I first saw the car on the road, it is the most expensive Lincoln after all. I know it's inconsequential and probably saves Lincoln money, but it makes the most common version of the Continental look like it's 5 years old already. Edited November 2, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Correct. Torque vectoring requires the 3.0LGTDI. Thanks for the clarification! I wonder why this is though. I would have thought that it would have been another way to differentiate across the Continental line from the common AWD system in the Ford family. Edited November 2, 2016 by jcartwright99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I don't think the standard headlamps are suitable for the Continental, especially since it has such a sedate design, the details are what make the car. The standard lights don't even have LED turn indicators which shocked the hell out of me when I first saw the car on the road, it is the most expensive Lincoln after all. I know it's inconsequential and probably saves Lincoln money, but it makes the most common version of the Continental look like it's 5 years old already. I'll agree, however, the competition does the same exact thing, so it's not as if Lincoln is doing this while the competition has LED lighting standard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Thanks for the clarification! I wonder why this is though. I would have thought that it would have been another way to differentiate across the Continental line from the common AWD system in the Ford family. $$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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