How will Trump affect Ford Country?

[fordmantpw]

 

Actually, you are missing the point. If it was about buying Ford product the sign would say Ford products only. Why doesn't it say that? My theory is that the UAW, not Ford, pressed for this during their buy American (UAW) campaign.

 

OK, so we are talking about the UAW here and not Ford then, so it has nothing to do with incentives other than the incentive to not get your tires slashed for parking your foreign car in the lot. While I agree with sticking with your brothers, I view the sign different coming from the UAW and not Ford since the UAW doesn't pay for the plant or the parking lot. The only incentive they have to offer is not torturing you for buying a different brand.

[jcartwright99]

 

Funny how some see the lack of a benefit as a penalty.

 

Folks are trying to pass this as a Ford benefit, which it isn't. I think this benefits the UAW more than Ford. Everyone could drive up in GM/Chrysler cars at a Ford plant and park at the main lot. Do you think Ford would like that? What would people think? Do you think the UAW cares?

 

Also, can somebody define what a Foreign car is? I would be interested in reading someone taking on that task.

 

Just call a spade, a spade. This is an old bully tactic by the UAW. Nothing more, nothing less.

[snooter]

I dont think we will see an artificial oil market created for sole purpose of foisting electric vehicles on a buying public that does not want the crap....hence..low oil plus low gas price equal strong f150 sales for next 7 years...suck it tree huggers....on a more pleasant note i dont like the uaw but fully support there no foreign crap on there employee lot....

 

I drive an ih scout..i honestly could not find 1 part on that rig during rebuild that was stamped made in japan or china..not 1 dam part....so i am goin with last truly american made vehicle being an ih scout ss2..that is all..god speed

[jcartwright99]

 

OK, so we are talking about the UAW here and not Ford then, so it has nothing to do with incentives other than the incentive to not get your tires slashed for parking your foreign car in the lot. While I agree with sticking with your brothers, I view the sign different coming from the UAW and not Ford since the UAW doesn't pay for the plant or the parking lot. The only incentive they have to offer is not torturing you for buying a different brand.

 

Your response was one that I understand, having worked at a Ford plant. I got a good chuckle from the tires slashed (also heard paint being dumped on car, keyed, etc) because there were stories from back in the day when those things occurred. I haven't been around a plant since the mid 90's so I would think that stuff doesn't occur much or anymore for that matter. Video cameras being everywhere and the legal implications (big lawsuits) of a hostile work environment being a big deterrent.

 

Back to the signage though, I think UAW probably negotiated it with the Big 3 long ago. I am actually surprised that they still have that sign, in the day and age of frivolous lawsuits.

[akirby]

 

Folks are trying to pass this as a Ford benefit, which it isn't. I think this benefits the UAW more than Ford. Everyone could drive up in GM/Chrysler cars at a Ford plant and park at the main lot. Do you think Ford would like that? What would people think? Do you think the UAW cares?

 

Also, can somebody define what a Foreign car is? I would be interested in reading someone taking on that task.

 

Just call a spade, a spade. This is an old bully tactic by the UAW. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I can agree with that, but I thought this was a more general discussion about parking restrictions. I agree the restriction should be by brand not by union.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Actually, you are missing the point. If it was about buying Ford product the sign would say Ford products only. Why doesn't it say that? My theory is that the UAW, not Ford, pressed for this during their buy American (UAW) campaign.

You would be correct.

[jpd80]

 

Don't they already do that by A plan? They are incentivizing you to buy what the company produces.

 

As stated above, they are incentivizing you to buy their product with A plan, which is fine. Encouraging you to do it, I have no problem with.

 

My two biggest gripes are as follows:

 

1. What defines foreign? While it may upset some folks here, in my opinion, Chrysler is foreign. Headquarters are in Italy and Sergio running them into the ground. Is Mazda, Jaguar, and Volvo foreign? Ford used to own/controlling stake in them but don't now (a Ford employee could get a discount on them). Do those folks that bought them have to get rid of them? Finally, is a car built with parts produced in US, assembled in US but has a "foreign owner" considered foreign?

There are four things to consider here,

1.The Nett money flow with a foreign automaker is out of the country

 

2 business activity in the USA, how much revenue is generated and how much of that is spent

locally on manufacturing and jobs - how does the community benefit.

 

3, domestic versus import product mix. another aspect that should go hand in hand with how

much the local or regional community benefits form auto manufacturing.

 

4. dealerships employ a lot of people to service and maintain both foreign and domestic vehicles.

No matter where those vehicles are produced, a good portion of that business activity and employmnet

flows back to the community.

[jcartwright99]

 

I can agree with that, but I thought this was a more general discussion about parking restrictions. I agree the restriction should be by brand not by union.

 

If it said Ford only lot, I don't really think it would be an issue as that is a perk for Ford and buying Ford. The fact that it uses an ambiguous term "Foreign", when at one time or another Ford owned many " foreign" brands. Add to it the whole Chrysler debate and it leaves a lot of gray area.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

If it said Ford only lot, I don't really think it would be an issue as that is a perk for Ford and buying Ford. The fact that it uses an ambiguous term "Foreign", when at one time or another Ford owned many " foreign" brands. Add to it the whole Chrysler debate and it leaves a lot of gray area.

The Rouge has been Ford family only for years

[jpd80]

 

If it said Ford only lot, I don't really think it would be an issue as that is a perk for Ford and buying Ford. The fact that it uses an ambiguous term "Foreign", when at one time or another Ford owned many " foreign" brands. Add to it the whole Chrysler debate and it leaves a lot of gray area.

Fuzzy works at MAP, he should be able to tell you the actual score there.

Youll find that most workers would support their employer (Ford) a lot more than Ford supports them..

[jcartwright99]

The Rouge has been Ford family only for years

 

Didn't know that. I remember working at a Ford stamping plant and they had the American products lot and a tiny one at the farthest away for non american makes. That same plant turned into Visteon, even before they were fully spun off, allowed all types of cars in the lot. Which somehow makes sense because they were making parts for foreign and domestic makes at the time.

[rmc523]

Something Alan Mullaly was starting to change, then suddenly took a back seat when Mark Fields took over.

 

You mean an effort to encourage people to support the brand? Or overall attitude?

 

I'm also interested in what you were going to say in another thread the other day, but it was related to the plants/management/employee relationship.

 

 

Don't they already do that by A plan? They are incentivizing you to buy what the company produces.

 

As stated above, they are incentivizing you to buy their product with A plan, which is fine. Encouraging you to do it, I have no problem with.

 

My two biggest gripes are as follows:

 

1. What defines foreign? While it may upset some folks here, in my opinion, Chrysler is foreign. Headquarters are in Italy and Sergio running them into the ground. Is Mazda, Jaguar, and Volvo foreign? Ford used to own/controlling stake in them but don't now (a Ford employee could get a discount on them). Do those folks that bought them have to get rid of them? Finally, is a car built with parts produced in US, assembled in US but has a "foreign owner" considered foreign?

 

2. Don't penalize the employee for their car choices (aka how they spend their money). Making them park farther away and trying to shame them because they didn't buy what they view as American is kinda a bully move. Cars are not inexpensive and sometimes there are better alternatives (price and offerings) that people need.

 

In summary, I get that US automakers want folks to drive their cars (or US cars in general). However in this day and age, foreign is kinda ambiguous. I think this is more of a play of the buy American campaign gone wrong. What happens if/when Toyota/Nissan, BMW, or Volkswagen have a UAW plant in the states (they already might, not sure)? Their dues would be going to the same folks that represent GM, Ford, and Chrysler too.

 

The landscape has changed but clearly the attitude has not.

 

I think the bottom line is - how does it look for the parking lot of a Ford plant to be filled with Toyotas, Kias, Hondas, etc? It looks bad; they want Ford branded products to be there.

 

Now the UAW thing is different, and I can agree with that, but if it were Ford saying, 'hey, only Fords can park here' then I don't have a problem with that.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Didn't know that. I remember working at a Ford stamping plant and they had the American products lot and a tiny one at the farthest away for non american makes. That same plant turned into Visteon, even before they were fully spun off, allowed all types of cars in the lot. Which somehow makes sense because they were making parts for foreign and domestic makes at the time.

Here's the thing though, the membership of Local 600 voted for that.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

You mean an effort to encourage people to support the brand? Or overall attitude?

 

I'm also interested in what you were going to say in another thread the other day, but it was related to the plants/management/employee relationship.

 

It was both. I started in 2013 and morale was very high, partly due to the way the industry was in an upswing, partly because of the attitude of upper management. When Fields took over it was almost overnight that morale started shifting and management became more combative, almost like a switch had flipped. It's only gotten worse. Plant management has gotten so bloated that nobody really knows how the chain of command is supposed to work now, supervisors being brought in from agent who have zero idea what they're doing. A lot of them have degrees that have zero to do with manufacturing or business.

 

Maybe it's just a MAP problem, I noticed it wasn't as bad at FRAP while I was there. I never saw senior process coaches on the floor except maybe once a shift riding around on a golf cart just to see how things were going. It seems every day at MAP the SPC in my area is running half the line. It's ridiculous. They've become increasingly more combative since the official announcement of the Ranger, and what's really sad is the union is letting them get away with it.

[bdegrand]

Didn't know that. I remember working at a Ford stamping plant and they had the American products lot and a tiny one at the farthest away for non american makes. That same plant turned into Visteon, even before they were fully spun off, allowed all types of cars in the lot. Which somehow makes sense because they were making parts for foreign and domestic makes at the time.

Now we see where your resentment and anger comes from....after losing your job!

[tbone]

If you think things of this nature only happen in the auto industry you are mistaken. As example, talk to employees that work for Pepsi and Coke and see what they deal with. It isn't unique to Ford or the others, for that matter.

 

What do you think it says to the average consumer when a Ford employee is seen driving a competitor's vehicle? I can strongly speculate that it is viewed that this employee has no faith in the very product they have a part in building. Perception equals reality for most people.

[jcartwright99]

Now we see where your resentment and anger comes from....after losing your job!

 

Actually, I am not angry at all....no resentment. Working in that stamping plant was the best thing that ever happened to me.

 

You may think you know my story but let me enlighten you. I was 18 and just finished first year of college. I got put on academic probation because I liked to party too much. I got a job as a TPT for the summer and got most of the crap work that most didn't want to do. I made around 20+ hour and worked 40-50 hours a week. It was a tough job and that made me appreciate a lot of the hard work that people put in there (especially my father...41 years). I even got a free trip to the emergency room and a permanent scar but I still had to push a broom till I got my 8 in.

 

At the end of the summer, I had a choice to either go back to school or stay on and get hired in for FT afternoons. After a lot of conversations with my father, knowing that plant might not exist for much longer (always a rumor) I made the choice to forgo the cash and go back to school. For me, that was the best choice I could have made. I understand college isn't for everyone but it was for me. I appreciate the hard working folks that work in plants, as I know it isn't easy (unless you are a hi low driver ....I kid, I kid). Now I work in the financial industry making a good living in an office setting. That plant has since closed and a lot of the folks I knew either moved or took buyouts.

 

Sorry for my life story but I am no bitter out of the job guy. I've been in the trenches and chose to get out.

[fuzzymoomoo]

If you think things of this nature only happen in the auto industry you are mistaken. As example, talk to employees that work for Pepsi and Coke and see what they deal with. It isn't unique to Ford or the others, for that matter.

 

What do you think it says to the average consumer when a Ford employee is seen driving a competitor's vehicle? I can strongly speculate that it is viewed that this employee has no faith in the very product they have a part in building. Perception equals reality for most people.

Well when you work at the plant that builds the Focus and C-Max (aka cars nobody wants anymore) combine with the fact that a lot of the workforce here lives in Detroit proper, where it's a status symbol to have a Charger or Impala, you don't see much of what we build in the parking lot. A good number of late model F-150s though just looking around.

[Pioneer]

Maybe it's just a MAP problem

It's not.

[Pioneer]

Ok. A few random parking observations.

 

As far as I know, the Union hall for MAP is the lot that has no foreign vehicles allowed. AFAIK, it even includes Ford products made in Mexico. Canadian products, competitor plants with UAW members and foreign vehicles assembled with Union labor were OK. That meant if you had a NUMMI plant assembled Toyota, you were good to go. Things could have changed the past few years. My family connection retired from there at the start of this last contract.

 

The Rouge site, with the exclusion of the parking lot by gate 10, has green lines painted in the parking lots. If you park between the green line and the gate with a vehicle other than a Ford produced product, it is subject to tow. Mexican assembled products excluded. The only exceptions are PAG vehicles that were assembled while under Ford ownership. The reason Gate 10 lot by Tool and Die is excluded is because some steel plant employees park there and there is no way to know who the vehicle belongs to.

[fuzzymoomoo]

As far as I know, the Union hall for MAP is the lot that has no foreign vehicles allowed. AFAIK, it even includes Ford products made in Mexico. Canadian products, competitor plants with UAW members and foreign vehicles assembled with Union labor were OK. That meant if you had a NUMMI plant assembled Toyota, you were good to go. Things could have changed the past few years. My family connection retired from there at the start of this last contract.

I've never heard of that, must have changed even before I started. I was told that it was no foreign badged cars period except for AAI built Mazdas. May be the same Mazda/PAG rule you have there at the rouge.

[bdegrand]

Actually, I am not angry at all....no resentment. Working in that stamping plant was the best thing that ever happened to me.

 

You may think you know my story but let me enlighten you. I was 18 and just finished first year of college. I got put on academic probation because I liked to party too much. I got a job as a TPT for the summer and got most of the crap work that most didn't want to do. I made around 20+ hour and worked 40-50 hours a week. It was a tough job and that made me appreciate a lot of the hard work that people put in there (especially my father...41 years). I even got a free trip to the emergency room and a permanent scar but I still had to push a broom till I got my 8 in.

 

At the end of the summer, I had a choice to either go back to school or stay on and get hired in for FT afternoons. After a lot of conversations with my father, knowing that plant might not exist for much longer (always a rumor) I made the choice to forgo the cash and go back to school. For me, that was the best choice I could have made. I understand college isn't for everyone but it was for me. I appreciate the hard working folks that work in plants, as I know it isn't easy (unless you are a hi low driver ....I kid, I kid). Now I work in the financial industry making a good living in an office setting. That plant has since closed and a lot of the folks I knew either moved or took buyouts.

 

Sorry for my life story but I am no bitter out of the job guy. I've been in the trenches and chose to get out.

You are like an alcoholic who swears he doesn't have a drinking problem! Bottom line, you seem angry and resentful against dedicated, loyal Ford lovers with this false foreign content rhetoric. Please let it go....you aren't helping the Blue Oval by defending the foreign competitors. Edited May 31, 2017 by bdegrand

[Joe771476]

I think it boils down to this: When the Japanese electronics started showing up in stores back in the early 60's, people started buying them because they were cheaper, even the American mfrs.' employees! Imagine their surprise when they found out they were out of a job! Fast forward to the present: How many Sears and Kmart employess ordered stuff from online Amazon? Now where are they? In the street! By the way, a tidbit. It has been stated by a "Buy American" company that every 16 ships that deliver Chinese goods cause more pollution than all the cars in the world! Also, to expand on the original point of this thread, whether it be a financial magazine article interview with Raj Nair on the future, or an article in a material fabricating mag about how Ford made the aluminum F150 a reality, or this Trump article, all the mag and newspaper articles seem to revolve around Ford. I don't see too many about GM or FCA.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Joe771476

[mkizlvr]

Fgts - knock off the personal attacks.

Was that really necessary? That's not ok.

 

 

Edit -

 

Oops nevermind. Didn't realize that was someone's username. Looked like you were calling someone a derogatory term hahahaahahahaha

 

That's username does not look appropriate though hahha

Edited June 7, 2017 by mkizlvr

[Joe771476]

Did anybody read the entire 5 page article? There's more to it than just the parking lot sign.