J-150 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Hmm. In almost 30 years, the Tundra (and its predecessor) has gone from "not a factor in the full-size truck market" to "still not a factor in the full-size truck market." 100k half ton units isnt a factor? How many half tons does Ford sell? About 500 to 600k. Every Tundra, Sequoia, Tacoma, Highlander, RAV4 and Lexus counterpart is a sale that could have been made by Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 100k half ton units isnt a factor? How many half tons does Ford sell? About 500 to 600k. Every Tundra, Sequoia, Tacoma, Highlander, RAV4 and Lexus counterpart is a sale that could have been made by Ford. In the grand scheme of things, the Tundra is outsold by Ram and Silverado by a 3-4x ratio, not including Ford sales. The best sales the Tundra saw was in 2007-196,555 units sold...otherwise it is around 100-115k units year. The F-series ranges from a high of 939,511 in 2004 to a low of 413,625 in 2009...so yes the Tundra is a non-factor in the dominance of F-series sales. Outside of van sales, there is no other market that one maker is completely dominant in...and that is Ford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Last month over 17,000 buyers bought that crappy Powershift equipped Focus... Focus seems to be holding its own against the much newer Cruze... I have to ask what could have been with simply switching to the 6F at the last MCE, elsewhere in the world Focus comes with 1.5 Ecoboost, that auto and a 6MT.. Such a pity that Ford cheaped out for the last few years. The Focus fell to 17k while the Cruze increase to that many, shame IMO the only downside to the Focus is the transmission. The Cruze hatch is popping-up everywhere where I live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 The Focus fell to 17k while the Cruze increase to that many, shame IMO the only downside to the Focus is the transmission. The Cruze hatch is popping-up everywhere where I live. Same here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 IMO the only downside to the Focus is the transmission. Cramped interior compared to the Civic and other competitors. Aside from the tranny that was the worst part for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 In this segment price sells. Wouldn't surprise me if Cruze was the lowest price. Also catering to sub prime buyers. I think this may have been one reason Ford decided to move Focus back to Mexico and move to a cheaper architecture. I don't think they were making enough money trying to sell premium models made at MAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 We were looking at vehicles in this segment. The Focus has the best styling by far, and the chassis tuning is great. But the cramped back seat and the problematic automatic transmission were deal killers for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I would like to hear the internal explanation of why they chose to stick with this piece of garbage for so long. They should have ditched it during the refresh but decided to keep it. They didn't stick with the awful CVT this long. They have essentially ruined their reputation in the small car area to a degree. I can't recommend it anymore, with the exception for a manual....which means I can almost always never recommend it. My sister has a 2007 Mazda 3 and just got into an accident. Will find out today if they consider it totaled. She lives in medium size city and wants to keep a small car because she mostly is zipping through city traffic. She asked about the Focus and I said don't do it. She didn't want anything much larger than Focus and she thinks the Fusion is too big. Good job Ford! Now her friends have opened her eyes to lease a BMW because she can't find an small Ford that she likes. This exact thing just happened to me with a friend. They called me looking for a recommendation and I had to steer them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 In this segment price sells. Wouldn't surprise me if Cruze was the lowest price. Also catering to sub prime buyers. I think this may have been one reason Ford decided to move Focus back to Mexico and move to a cheaper architecture. I don't think they were making enough money trying to sell premium models made at MAP. Actually the Cruze costs more...it takes an additional 2K or so to bring a Focus SE up to similar equipment levels to the Cruze LT https://www.truedelta.com/Ford-Focus-vs-Chevrolet-Cruze-price-comparison,88-1008,2017&pc=5376408&price_feature=3&personal_feature= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I wonder if that's why Ford brought back the SEL trim. At $21,275 it seems to come with with a lot of nice stuff. moon roof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 You used to be able to get all the SEL stuff on an SE. They grouped it all into the SEL trim to streamline ordering and dealer inventory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) I would like to hear the internal explanation of why they chose to stick with this piece of garbage for so long. They should have ditched it during the refresh but decided to keep it. They didn't stick with the awful CVT this long. They have essentially ruined their reputation in the small car area to a degree. I can't recommend it anymore, with the exception for a manual....which means I can almost always never recommend it. My sister has a 2007 Mazda 3 and just got into an accident. Will find out today if they consider it totaled. She lives in medium size city and wants to keep a small car because she mostly is zipping through city traffic. She asked about the Focus and I said don't do it. She didn't want anything much larger than Focus and she thinks the Fusion is too big. Good job Ford! Now her friends have opened her eyes to lease a BMW because she can't find an small Ford that she likes. . How about telling your sister to go check out a new Mazda 3?? Or even a CX-3?? Edited June 6, 2017 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 In the grand scheme of things, the Tundra is outsold by Ram and Silverado by a 3-4x ratio, not including Ford sales. The best sales the Tundra saw was in 2007-196,555 units sold...otherwise it is around 100-115k units year. The F-series ranges from a high of 939,511 in 2004 to a low of 413,625 in 2009...so yes the Tundra is a non-factor in the dominance of F-series sales. Now please do tell us and F150 sales, not all F Series. Half ton buyers dont cross shop duallies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Now please do tell us and F150 sales, not all F Series. Half ton buyers dont cross shop duallies. Why single out Ford half-tons though? Silverado, Sierra, and Ram also sell heavy-duty trucks. At any rate, Tundra sold 17,654 units last month compared to the F-Series and 76,027. True, Ford doesn't break out F150 from anything else (neither do GM or Mopar), but are you really trying to insinuate that F150 sales make up anywhere near as low as a quarter of all F-Series sold? Or, conversely, that 3/4 of all F-Series are Super Duty models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Why single out Ford half-tons though? Silverado, Sierra, and Ram also sell heavy-duty trucks. Toyota and Nissan don't. Ok so Nissan has the titan XD, but sorry, that's not really much more than an upgraded light duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Toyota and Nissan don't. Ok so Nissan has the titan XD, but sorry, that's not really much more than an upgraded light duty. My point was that everybody (elsewhere) jumps on Ford for touting the F-Series as the best-selling pickup line for the reason that they combine the F150 sales with the other models. Yet no one (from among these same folks) bats an eye at the other American companies combining their numbers in the same fashion. So it's a bit telling to call one out but not the rest. And even still, it won't allay the fact that Tundra and Titan combined most likely don't sniff F150 sales. And yeah, Titan XD doesn't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 If GM was #1 they'd be jumping on GM for combining them, too. If you're looking specifically at Tundra or Titan then it is valid to only compare it to F150 and Silvererra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 If GM was #1 they'd be jumping on GM for combining them, too. If you're looking specifically at Tundra or Titan then it is valid to only compare it to F150 and Silvererra. The "they" I was referring to tends to come from the GM fanboy camp more often than not. And i agree, they should only compare half-ton to half-ton. In the absence of any official numbers, though, inductive reasoning should lead one to presume that Tundra still doesn't come close to any of the American half-tons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 You are all missing the point. There is a competitor selling 100k half tons. Its the only full size segment thry compete in. So compare those sales to the half tons from Ford, GM and Ram then tell me they are not a threat. Does anyone want to see the ratio go from 500k/100k to 400k/200k? What about in other segments? The original argument was Ford xropping the ball on the Focus transmission. Which could drive buyers to the Corolla. In 10 years that Corolla guy needs a pickup. Which pickup does he buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 You are all missing the point. There is a competitor selling 100k half tons. Its the only full size segment thry compete in. So compare those sales to the half tons from Ford, GM and Ram then tell me they are not a threat. Does anyone want to see the ratio go from 500k/100k to 400k/200k? What about in other segments? The original argument was Ford xropping the ball on the Focus transmission. Which could drive buyers to the Corolla. In 10 years that Corolla guy needs a pickup. Which pickup does he buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 They're not a threat unless they're taking market share from Ford and I don't think they are nor is Ford doing anything that would change that going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 They're not a threat unless they're taking market share from Ford and I don't think they are nor is Ford doing anything that would change that going forward. They havent taken market share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 They havent taken market share? Not from F150 the last decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) And if anything GM would be worried about where its truck sales have gone in the past three months, people want to blame that on GM's complicated incentives but I think it's a possible sign that GM has filled its truck segments. The strong focus on retail sales may have pulled forward a lot of those buyers... Edited June 6, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Any competitor that has a product selling 1/5 quantity of mine, and is hungry for more, would make me ensure my bucket has no leaks. And the reality is, Ford has holes in every segment bucket when they allow known defects to continue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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