fuzzymoomoo Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I expect all C and C/D vehicles to be hybridized to some degree. Ford did say at one point that all future platforms will be capable of being electric and/or hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 FTFY Yes, that's true, but nothing we can do about that now; it can only be fixed going forward. --- We need some new news, it's a slow day at the office haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) They have neglected the base Fusion engine totally. You can really say that about all N/A engines for the most part, with the exception of anything related to Mustang or F150. Totally disagree. The 2.5 in the Fusion is no slouch. Have you ever driven one? Even the 1.5 needs a reboot, which really was a shoddy reboot of the 1.6. it just got one for MY2017. And no, the 1.5 and 1.6 are not The same. I know this is beating a dead horse but I think the engines in current state would be a lot more serviceable if Ford had the 9 (8 speed) transmission ready for the 2017 model year. We have been talking about these transmissions for 5 years now and yet they have still not shown up in anything. It just seems like Ford supremely either dropped the ball or really put that farther down in the priority list than it should have been. The 8/9F and 10R transmissions were co-developed with GM. They had an agreement that Ford would get their version of the 10R first and GM would get their version of the 8/9F first, apparently with exception to special models since the Camaro got the 10R with one of their high performance models. Although, I thought that some of those things they did in the lightweight fusion prototype maybe would trickle down but it didn't. a lot of that was highly impractical to make possible for production and still meet safety regs. I do believe they will use lessons learned from that on their new platforms. The funny thing is, Ford has the pieces to make the Fusion best in class in performance and fuel economy. They seem to have lost their way a bit with this and quality under Fields. Yes. That actually started before Fields even took over. Quantity over quality seemed to be the mantra since I started working for Ford. Edited August 4, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Totally disagree. The 2.5 in the Fusion is no slouch. Have you ever driven one? it just got one for MY2017. And no, the 1.5 and 1.6 are not The same. The 8/9F and 10R transmissions were co-developed with GM. They had an agreement that Ford would get their version of the 10R first and GM would get their version of the 8/9F first, apparently with exception to special models since the Camaro got the 10R with one of their high performance models. a lot of that was highly impractical to make possible for production and still meet safety regs. I do believe they will use lessons learned from that on their new platforms. Yes. That actually started before Fields even took over. Quantity over quality seemed to be the mantra since I started working for Ford. 1. Yes, I have driven the base 2.5. Meh. Don't tell me it's not essentially the same engine as it was in 2010. While dependable, it lacks fuel economy and performance compared to Camry and Accord. If you drive those base engines for a decent amount of time, you will notice that fuel economy difference big time. . 2. Can you enlighten me on what enhancement the 1.5 four cylinder just received? I have not heard or read anything that would indicate it has gone through any revision. Now the 1.5 3 cylinder is a different story. 3. Oh I understand the agreement with Ford and GM, it just seems that it has taken forever. Maybe I don't understand how long it really take to engineer a transmission? The 6 speed while good, doesn't necessarily get the best perf/fuel economy mix for the ecoboost engines. 4. One can only hope the new platform losses weight while keeping the rigidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1. Yes, I have driven the base 2.5. Meh. Don't tell me it's not essentially the same engine as it was in 2010. While dependable, it lacks fuel economy and performance compared to Camry and Accord. If you drive those base engines for a decent amount of time, you will notice that fuel economy difference big time. I never said it wasn't the same engine. All I said is it's better than you make it out to be 2. Can you enlighten me on what enhancement the 1.5 four cylinder just received? I have not heard or read anything that would indicate it has gone through any revision. Now the 1.5 3 cylinder is a different story. You're right, I was thinking of the 2.0 given a twin scroll and some other upgrades. 3. Oh I understand the agreement with Ford and GM, it just seems that it has taken forever. Maybe I don't understand how long it really take to engineer a transmission? The 6 speed while good, doesn't necessarily get the best perf/fuel economy mix for the ecoboost engines. As much crap as Ford has taken with their transmissions in the last 6-8 years I'm not surprised their taking their time with it. They can't afford to take it up the ass with transmissions anymore. 4. One can only hope the new platform losses weight while keeping the rigidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 As much crap as Ford has taken with their transmissions in the last 6-8 years I'm not surprised their taking their time with it. They can't afford to take it up the ass with transmissions anymore. Maybe they need to.....change gears.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Maybe they need to.....change gears.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 The fact that Ford still hasn't debuted the new transmission 4 1/2 years after the JV was announced (and apparently won't before until the 2019 MY) seems to be confirmation that it has been changed from a 9 speed to 8. GM debuted the 9 speed a year ago and is putting it in a number of 4 cylinder and v-6's models for the 2018 MY. If it has been changed to an 8 speed, Ford has likely lost most if not all the benefits of a JV given the very long development period and the costs associated with the changes. Meanwhile, the competition pulls further ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) The fact that Ford still hasn't debuted the new transmission 4 1/2 years after the JV was announced (and apparently won't before until the 2019 MY) seems to be confirmation that it has been changed from a 9 speed to 8. GM debuted the 9 speed a year ago and is putting it in a number of 4 cylinder and v-6's models for the 2018 MY. If it has been changed to an 8 speed, Ford has likely lost most if not all the benefits of a JV given the very long development period and the costs associated with the changes. Meanwhile, the competition pulls further ahead. Not at all. Ford was lead design on the 10AT and have rolled it out first in F150, then to Mustang and on to Expedition and Navigator Ford. Profits from fully refreshed F 150 outweigh by far any concerns regarding falling behind in Utilities and cars. GM was lead design on the 9AT and has barely rolled it out yet..... Edited August 5, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 GM was lead design on the 9AT and has barely rolled it out yet..... GM 9TXX transmission was introduced last year in 2017 Malibu 2.0T. It is offered on 2018 Malibu, Equinox, Cruze Diesel, Traverse, Terrain, LaCrosse, Regal, and Enclave. Most of these 2018 models are currently being produced or will start production soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 GM 9TXX transmission was introduced last year in 2017 Malibu 2.0T. It is offered on 2018 Malibu, Equinox, Cruze Diesel, Traverse, Terrain, LaCrosse, Regal, and Enclave. Most of these 2018 models are currently being produced or will start production soon. Ok? And? What's your point? The point still stands that Ford led development on the 10-speed, and got access to it first - in F-series. You know, all 800,000+ of them. And it'll be added to the Expy/Navi and Mustang in a few months. GM led development on the 9-speed, and therefore, it gets to put it in their vehicles first. In the next year or two, each company will gain access to the other transmission to put in the appropriate vehicles (so GM for the SUVs/Trucks, and for Ford all the sedans and FWD crossovers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 The point still stands that Ford led development on the 10-speed, and got access to it first - in F-series. You know, all 800,000+ of them. And it'll be added to the Expy/Navi and Mustang in a few months. That's not entirely accurate. The only 2017 F-Series model to get it is Raptor. It doesn't make it to the rest of the lineup until 2018, which starts production soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Not at all. Ford was lead design on the 10AT and have rolled it out first in F150, then to Mustang and on to Expedition and Navigator Ford. Profits from fully refreshed F 150 outweigh by far any concerns regarding falling behind in Utilities and cars. GM was lead design on the 9AT and has barely rolled it out yet..... And Ford's making sure that they charge customers for the extra gears. The 6-Speed Automatic option on the 2017MY Mustang is $1,195 (MSRP) but the 10-Speed Automatic option on the 2018MY Mustang is priced at $1,595 (MSRP). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 That's not entirely accurate. The only 2017 F-Series model to get it is Raptor. It doesn't make it to the rest of the lineup until 2018, which starts production soon. Wrong, all 2017 3.5EB's have the 10 speed. In 2018 the 2.7 and 5.0 get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) Ok? And? What's your point? Statement in post 159 "GM was lead design on the 9AT and has barely rolled it out yet" is not true. GM and Ford worked together on this transaxle. GM has rolled out the 9T transaxle to at least seven high volume models as of now, plus a lower volume diesel car too. Ford doesn't yet have any front wheel drive cars or light trucks with 8 or 9 speed automatic transaxles. Only old fashioned 6 speeds for now. Edited August 5, 2017 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Statement in post 159 "GM was lead design on the 9AT and has barely rolled it out yet" is not true. GM and Ford worked together on this transaxle. http://www.autonews.com/article/20120928/OEM06/120929855/gm-ford-jointly-developing-9--and-10-speed-transmissions GM is leading design of a nine-speed gearbox for use in front-wheel-drive vehicles, said three people familiar with the companies' plans. Ford is taking the lead on a 10-speed transmission for rear-wheel-drive vehicles such as pickups, SUVs and performance cars, the sources said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) GM 9TXX transmission was introduced last year in 2017 Malibu 2.0T. It is offered on 2018 Malibu, Equinox, Cruze Diesel, Traverse, Terrain, LaCrosse, Regal, and Enclave. Most of these 2018 models are currently being produced or will start production soon. You do understand that "barely rolled out" is different to "not rolled out"...... Those may be high volume vehicles but I guarantee that the 9AT is restricted or limited to certain low volume trims GM is still in the process of ramping up its new 9AT and will take the rest of the year to complete its full roll out.. Ford doesn't yet have any front wheel drive cars or light trucks with 8 or 9 speed automatic transaxles. Only old fashioned 6 speeds for now Ford was lead design on the 10AT and prioritized that gearbox for its own high volume, high profit vehicles. around 30% of all 2017 F150s had a 10-speed auto being available on all 3.5 EB engines. Ford has F150 with 10-speed auto option in 2017 model and full roll out in 2018 F150, Expedition, Navigator and Mustang. I'd hardly consider that trivial when GM is yet to fully roll out the 10AT in its truck and SUV lines. Yes, Ford is lagging GM by not having an 8AT or 9AT on its Utilities and cars but low gas prices negate the urgency as the 9AT is more about improved official economy numbers for CAFE and for most part not a concern to actual buyers. With over 900,000 vehicles in inventory, it's going to take GM a while to feel any difference from introducing the 9AT.... Edited August 5, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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