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Trump administration will put steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada, Mexico and the EU tonight


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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/31/trump-administration-will-put-steel-and-aluminum-tariffs-on-canada-mexico-and-the-eu.html

  • The Trump administration is putting steel and aluminum tariffs on U.S. allies Canada, Mexico and the European Union.
  • Those entities had been exempt from the 25 percent tariffs on steel imports and 10 percent tariffs on aluminum imports.
  • The European Union immediately said it would impose countermeasures in response to the U.S. actions.
The Trump administration will put tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from Canada, Mexico and the European Union, the latest action in a string of protectionist policies to crack down on alleged trade abuses.
The tariffs of 25 percent on steel imports and 10 percent on aluminum imports will take effect at midnight Thursday, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross told reporters. The U.S. gave those allies a reprieve from the duties, but the exemptions were set to expire Friday. The Trump administration will place quotas or volume limits on other countries such as South Korea, Argentina, Australia and Brazil instead of tariffs, he said.

 


Effective TONIGHT. Diversion from bad news about to drop?

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I saw another headline about Trump wants a total ban on "German Luxury Vehicles". Something about "until he doesn't see Mercedes on the streets of NYC anymore". Supposedly a total ban regardless of if they have factories here or not. Fake news? Probably. Leadoff bargaining positioning? Maybe...

 

Politics aside, it'll be interesting to see where this goes. Even the suggestion of no more Beemers, Mercedes, and Audis will piss a lot of people off.

 

If Mr Obama was the world's greatest gun salesman, Mr Trump might lay claim to world's greatest Mercedes salesman!!!

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I saw another headline about Trump wants a total ban on "German Luxury Vehicles". Something about "until he doesn't see Mercedes on the streets of NYC anymore". Supposedly a total ban regardless of if they have factories here or not. Fake news? Probably. Leadoff bargaining positioning? Maybe...

 

Politics aside, it'll be interesting to see where this goes. Even the suggestion of no more Beemers, Mercedes, and Audis will piss a lot of people off.

 

If Mr Obama was the world's greatest gun salesman, Mr Trump might lay claim to world's greatest Mercedes salesmanFake how?

Fake news how? This sounds just like one of his toddler level dreams.

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I saw another headline about Trump wants a total ban on "German Luxury Vehicles". Something about "until he doesn't see Mercedes on the streets of NYC anymore". Supposedly a total ban regardless of if they have factories here or not. Fake news? Probably. Leadoff bargaining positioning? Maybe...

 

Politics aside, it'll be interesting to see where this goes. Even the suggestion of no more Beemers, Mercedes, and Audis will piss a lot of people off.

 

If Mr Obama was the world's greatest gun salesman, Mr Trump might lay claim to world's greatest Mercedes salesman!!!

A little flag waving he should tarriff Germany and Japan, America's #1 international city is lined with German luxury cars and Japanese mainstreamers and Taxis, it's embarrassing.
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Tariffs are a government solution to a government created problem (Burdensome regulations which raise the cost of production and manufacturing stateside and thus make it cheaper to acquire elsewhere)

 

So even though i'm not necessarily in favor of them,i'm not necessarily against them in our current situation. Now if yall want to start voting in some libertarian minded leaders to chop up those regulations.... then we can also do away with tariffs I suppose.

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The US Constitution clearly gives Congress the power to 'regulate' trade, not the President. Since Congress has sat around on their asses for 30 years as trade partners take advantage of our Wall St Banker driven economy - POTUS feels the need to light a fire under the feet of those in the branch of government that is supposed to be watching this and keeping things fair. Not so much Canada, but Mexico and all Asian trading partners are really screwing the USA. I like the strong talk in order to get those charged with this moving, and a wake up call to Asia and others that we finally care. Doubt it will ultimately come down to permanent tariffs for Canada and Europe, but looks more like a play to get Canada and Europe to pressure Asia to play by the rules - "Hey China, your screw-ups are costing us all...".

 

Someone has to do something- the 'off-shoring' mentality has had 40 years to work, and it is an epic fail. How much more of our phony printed money/debt can Asia suck out of the USA?

Edited by Kev-Mo
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Tariffs are a government solution to a government created problem (Burdensome regulations which raise the cost of production and manufacturing stateside and thus make it cheaper to acquire elsewhere)

 

So even though i'm not necessarily in favor of them,i'm not necessarily against them in our current situation. Now if yall want to start voting in some libertarian minded leaders to chop up those regulations.... then we can also do away with tariffs I suppose.

Great post. We regulate (some good) to protect workers and the environment, but then we love to import products from sweat shops and places were they can walk across the river on the waste, have to wear masks, and the sun is only seen 3 days a year. Out of sight, then its not the American consumer's problem. Completely irrational. Now I am not saying we go back to that - but what we do now is absurd. Any product and material imported into the USA should have to be produced with the same care for the environment as it it were produced here. Of course, if that were the case - then we would just make it here for the same cost.

Edited by Kev-Mo
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I agree offshoring is a very big problem for our economy. And we have a very large and problematic trade deficit with China. And Japan has taken advantage of us in terms of our access to their markets and defense contributions. But Germany? Their workers get paid more than ours and like Mexico it is not nearly as one sided as the deficit with China and Japan. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/may/30/does-us-have-massive-trade-deficit-germany-donald-/

 

The problem with all this is that Trump is a huge f*cking liar and he puts his interests before everyone else's. I sincerely am concerned that actions Trump takes are based more on which countries will give business to the Trump organization relative to their Trump branded hotels and developments (in addition to catering to his wing of supporters that are racist, Trump's business losses in Mexico are one reason he is so hostile to them. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-man-who-made-donald-trump-hate-mexico) Since he and many of the people he surrounds himself with are not concerned about factual economic data any action he takes concerns me.

 

Bottom line, as to offshoring, I thought the corporate tax cut was supposed to deal with that, and I never checked but hope the rewrite lessened the real or perceived subsidies provided to companies moving profits and/or jobs offshore. As to Trade he should focus on China. And perhaps try to stop his buddy Putin from occupying other potential markets for our goods.

Edited by Fordowner
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in addition to catering to his wing of supporters that are racist,

There you go! That ends all rational, civilized debate.

 

'Free Trade', debt driven, Paul Krugman/Keynesian style economic policy has been an EPIC failure (+21 Trillion national debt not including consumer debt). Someone finally has the guts to begin reform of the 40 years of disaster, but others resort to comments like the one quoted above.

 

If you bother to look at the real story - you will see the current administration (read what Kudlow is saying) is looking to 'individual' agreements with single countries rather than large trade agreements with multiple countries, a completely different tack than what we have done for the past several decades. This is a large process that will take a long time. Case in point: why would Canada and Mexico have the same trade agreement? They are completely different cultures and have completely different problems. Someone is finally thinking this through, but all we hear is distorted media reports of trade war, etc. Then there is China, and we finally have a leader that recognizes China as our largest geo-political foe. We're not starting a trade war, we already lost the trade war. We finally have leadership that is willing to fight back!

 

By the way, cool blue Mustang in your avatar.

Edited by Kev-Mo
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I think I can see the bigger picture of what the president is trying to do, which I believe, as Kev-Mo said, is individual agreements rather than large sweeping ones. I just dont agree with the hostile nature he seems to be using to try to achieve it. Theres a better way to do business than being an asshole to everyone.

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I think I can see the bigger picture of what the president is trying to do, which I believe, as Kev-Mo said, is individual agreements rather than large sweeping ones. I just dont agree with the hostile nature he seems to be using to try to achieve it. Theres a better way to do business than being an asshole to everyone.

Good post - But Congress are the jerks. Per the US Constitution this is their job. They just want their gravy train foreign lobby money, and status quo. POTUS is lighting a fire under all parties involved-domestic and foreign. Sometimes getting people off their fat cat ass requires some 'tough love'.

Edited by Kev-Mo
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There you go! That ends all rational, civilized debate.

 

'Free Trade', debt driven, Paul Krugman/Keynesian style economic policy has been an EPIC failure (+21 Trillion national debt not including consumer debt). Someone finally has the guts to begin reform of the 40 years of disaster, but others resort to comments like the one quoted above.

 

I don't even know where to begin with this.

  • Keynesian economics rebuilt the West after WW2 and produced the "American Golden Age" that people who are now wistful for better days remember, 30 of the last "40 years" from the 70s to the late-2000s were rather Friedman's Monetarism, and despite 2008 it seems like some are trying to resurrect it.
  • Economic policy, of whatever sort, is not directly responsible for the National Debt, nor are trade deficits, and the largest debt increase of the past decade was this Administration's business-focused tax cuts. Reducing the buying power of American consumers by causing costs to spike, however, risks a slowdown over the long haul. Especially retaliatory tariffs make it harder for the industries to compete in markets other than our own.
  • Kudlow is a TV clown whose actual career as an economist died decades ago in a cloud of addiction issues. Since the 90's the only thing he's ever done is toe an arch-conservative party line to drum up TV ratings, and that's why he was hired by the current Administration. Even supporters of Trump economic policy, whatever they believe that to mean, were critical of his hiring on the grounds that he's an unqualified nimnal and likely to just rubber-stamp whatever comes from Oval Office rather than attempt to craft realistic policy.
  • Even if you believe the current system of trade, and the various trade deals now in place, are all terribly wrong and require reconstruction or replacement, Unilaterally slapping tariffs on random industries is a terrible way to go about it. Like it or not, the other side of a trade agreement gets a vote. And if you demonstrate that you will violate agreements on a whim, punish friends and reward enemies, and so on you're gonna get a much worse "deal" from the other side of the table.
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  • Keynesian economics rebuilt the West after WW2 and produced the "American Golden Age" that people who are now wistful for better days remember, 30 of the last "40 years" from the 70s to the late-2000s were rather Friedman's Monetarism, and despite 2008 it seems like some are trying to resurrect it.

It is far more granular

 

Printing money to build amazing infrastructure projects and things like sending a man to the moon is 'productive' inflation (golden age). The end results and technological achievements that benefit society in a far more valuable way than the stolen value of money caused by the inflation. We built the highways and the dams, and cities, Americans produced the materials and heavy equipment to do so, transportation become more efficient, everyone benefited from greater productivity as a result.

 

Printing money to plug holes in the trade deficits, spending deficits, pass out as aid, and to give to banks to generate more consumer debt when traded for imported products, is like a giant sieve in the economy and as we can see from the last 10 years, very destructive with only more and more to keep the frankenmonetary beast sustained. Government passes out incentive to buyers of an imported Prius - money is lost to foreign country. Credit card produces money out of nowhere so someone can buy a 70" imported TV at Costco - money is lost to foreign country. Importing steel from China and equipment from Korea for infrastructure projects takes away a good portion of the ripple effect that stimulus projects are suppose to accomplish.

 

There are big differences between the golden age you refer to and today.

 

As is with so many things, the truth is spun 180 degrees to blame the guy trying to fix it, while the guy who screwed it up is a hero. Inflation is what creates the division of wealth per Keynes himself. Keynes was 100% spot on: His description below of what he intended is exactly what we are living today. Funny now we blame the guy trying to begin the process of undoing this disaster:

 

Keynes's insights, from pages 220-233 of The Economic Consequences of the Peace (1919):

By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls . . . become 'profiteers', who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished not less than the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds . . . all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless.
Anyone who thinks we are not living precisely that every moment of every day here in 2018 is fooling themselves.
Edited by Kev-Mo
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  • "Even if you believe the current system of trade, and the various trade deals now in place, are all terribly wrong and require reconstruction or replacement, Unilaterally slapping tariffs on random industries is a terrible way to go about it. Like it or not, the other side of a trade agreement gets a vote. And if you demonstrate that you will violate agreements on a whim, punish friends and reward enemies, and so on you're gonna get a much worse "deal" from the other side of the table."

 

Or you can just ignore the problem or even encourage it like the previous three administrations, and have to print a trillion dollars a year just to show a few tenths of a percent of economic growth. Change hurts! The first push-ups and sit-ups hurt the most. But you all wish, we can go back and gorge ourselves on the giant bowl of economic Cheetos (debt) and stimulus drugs (printing money) to keep our system from collapse.

Edited by Kev-Mo
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I agree offshoring is a very big problem for our economy. And we have a very large and problematic trade deficit with China. And Japan has taken advantage of us in terms of our access to their markets and defense contributions. But Germany? Their workers get paid more than ours and like Mexico it is not nearly as one sided as the deficit with China and Japan. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/may/30/does-us-have-massive-trade-deficit-germany-donald-/

 

The problem with all this is that Trump is a huge f*cking liar and he puts his interests before everyone else's. I sincerely am concerned that actions Trump takes are based more on which countries will give business to the Trump organization relative to their Trump branded hotels and developments (in addition to catering to his wing of supporters that are racist, Trump's business losses in Mexico are one reason he is so hostile to them. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-man-who-made-donald-trump-hate-mexico) Since he and many of the people he surrounds himself with are not concerned about factual economic data any action he takes concerns me.

 

Bottom line, as to offshoring, I thought the corporate tax cut was supposed to deal with that, and I never checked but hope the rewrite lessened the real or perceived subsidies provided to companies moving profits and/or jobs offshore. As to Trade he should focus on China. And perhaps try to stop his buddy Putin from occupying other potential markets for our goods.

 

Let's keep political opinions out of this please - you can take that to the off topic forum if necessary.

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So what do people thing will be the nett effect of these tariffs, increased prices on finished goods?

 

In the case of everyday consumer products, China does not import enough of anything to have a say and will back down. You want to sell in China, you have make it there or give up your IP.

 

In the case of steel and aluminum,the blanket tariff is meant to counter act the global over-supply. Steel is produced in China and enters the US market through many channels - i.e. through Viet Nam, or through a Chinese holding company located in Mexico, South America, Eastern Europe, Africa, and yes, even Canada or Germany. This is a far riskier move and a far more dangerous game of wits. Time will tell who wins.

 

 

From a Micro standpoint, most here were in favor of Ford re-sizing to market, and in the end achieving the goal of higher ATP's - but a far more stable and profitable company in general. It was a good thing. The blanket or unilateral tariff attempts to accomplish the same thing for the Steel industry from a Macro perspective. Also, steel itself may be considered a matter of national security. If we have no steel industry-which could happen if ignored, it could ultimately put us in a position of weakness.

Edited by Kev-Mo
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There you go! That ends all rational, civilized debate.

 

 

By the way, cool blue Mustang in your avatar.

 

I never said all his supporters were racists, "wing" i view as meaning a segment and not a majority segment. And to be clear I support fixing the tax code as a way to curb off shoring. And something does have to be done with China. Though I am very uneasy about the NAFTA moves. I had wanted Ford to build that additional plant and was hoping Ford could use it to export North American vehicles to other countries (Mexico being a part of North America).

 

Thanks about my Mustang, its a 2007, still driving it, really like the new ones, but I've grown attached to it.

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From a Canadian perspective I think (hope) these tariffs and other Trump international antics may be a blessing in disguise. Short term pain for long term gain. Canada has far too long been reliant on the US as the major trading partner. Time for Canada to go to work and create more diversity in sourcing alternatives rather than picking the low hanging fruit as in the US just because it is next door. IMO the US can not be relied upon anymore to stick to international agreements ala global warming withdrawal, Iran agreement, NAFTA .....

I hope Canada can make the recent trade agreements with the TransPacific and European work. A good step in turning away from the US as the major partner in trade.

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