alfredck Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) According to car and driver, 18 miles is what we will get. Thoughts? I guess they’re not shipping these to china? https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28694132/lincoln-aviator-plug-in-hybrid-more-horsepower/ Edited August 15, 2019 by alfredck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailhiker Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 This vehicle is all about performance. It does that extremely well! Battery only driving is not as important for the GT. I'm sure Ford/Lincoln will offer other models for other purposes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 I don’t think that’s confirmed yet by Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheeling Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Not very encouraging number, Was really hoping it can make 25 miles for my daily commute. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy62 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 They are not meeting the competition. The Honda Clarity PHEV is rated at 47 miles on electric. A friend bought one and got over 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 50 minutes ago, murphy62 said: They are not meeting the competition. The Honda Clarity PHEV is rated at 47 miles on electric. A friend bought one and got over 50. In what world is a buyer cross shopping a Honda Clarity with an Aviator GT?! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 6 hours ago, alfredck said: According to car and driver, 18 miles is what we will get. Thoughts? I guess they’re not shipping these to china? https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28694132/lincoln-aviator-plug-in-hybrid-more-horsepower/ Or China will get a larger battery. 18 seems a little low. With battery size I would expect it to get over 20 but far short of 31 miles aka 50 km. I get the "performance" emphasis but obviously don't know the trade offs that dictated such a small battery and small electric motor - 101 hp. Hopefully the reviews will be better than what the Range Rover Sport PHEV is getting with their even smaller battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailhiker Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Wheeling said: Not very encouraging number, Was really hoping it can make 25 miles for my daily commute. Please do not buy this vehicle. Let someone else who will use it for its intended purpose buy this instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 I just don't get the it needs to have "X" range. If you think that then you might not be the demographic that Lincoln has targeted. TFL had an interview with Lincoln Aviator program manager (forget his name) and mini review posted today. He said performance metrics were rated higher than fuel economy for the clientele they were going after. So if that's not you, then you are probably not who Lincoln is targeting with the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheeling Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 So they are not looking to expand their clientele? I got the performance side story. The short range is just "short" in an otherwise perfect vehicle, for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 38 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: I just don't get the it needs to have "X" range. If you think that then you might not be the demographic that Lincoln has targeted. TFL had an interview with Lincoln Aviator program manager (forget his name) and mini review posted today. He said performance metrics were rated higher than fuel economy for the clientele they were going after. So if that's not you, then you are probably not who Lincoln is targeting with the vehicle. Or maybe we are complaining because we are hoping Ford will listen and realize perhaps more people are interested in the EV range and MPG. You can never have too high of a mpg but at some point and some age hp is less important. And here in California the green side is very important. Everything else about the Aviator seems great, I was hoping for more in the GT. And yes I heard the interview from the program manager and although I agree that demographic wants the power they do (hopefully) also care about the environment. Come to California and see all the Teslas, Leafs, Prius, rooftop solar systems. My street of mostly million dollar homes - the demographic for this car - has 5/9 homes with solar systems. And around my city they are all over. I believe the future is going electric and Ford should be pushing harder to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolScoop Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122431_ford-explorer-plug-in-hybrid-released-for-europe 18 miles may not be an official number yet... the Explorer PHEV for Europe that has essentially the same drive train but with a 0.5 kwh smaller battery is rated for 25 miles under their test method. Edited August 15, 2019 by CoolScoop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, msm859 said: Or maybe we are complaining because we are hoping Ford will listen and realize perhaps more people are interested in the EV range and MPG. You can never have too high of a mpg but at some point and some age hp is less important. And here in California the green side is very important. Everything else about the Aviator seems great, I was hoping for more in the GT. And yes I heard the interview from the program manager and although I agree that demographic wants the power they do (hopefully) also care about the environment. Come to California and see all the Teslas, Leafs, Prius, rooftop solar systems. My street of mostly million dollar homes - the demographic for this car - has 5/9 homes with solar systems. And around my city they are all over. I believe the future is going electric and Ford should be pushing harder to get there. I don't need to visit you in California to see million dollar homes. I can just walk a couple blocks away from my sons school on the North Shore of Lake Michigan. Yes, I see Teslas, Toyota/Lexus Hybrids, along with high end sports cars. The other thing I see in the same driveways are Lexus GX460s, Navigators, Yukons, Escalades, and other full size luxury SUV's. I hate to break it to you but not many people are going to fully give up their SUV's for a Prius. Perceived environmentally friendly folks but don't you dare take away their luxury gas guzzler. As a shareholder, I don't want Ford to go all in on electrics when they aren't profitable. I actually think their pragmatic approach seems to be the least risky. If you haven't noticed, electrics are a minuscule part of the automobile market at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoost Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Wheeling said: So they are not looking to expand their clientele? I got the performance side story. The short range is just "short" in an otherwise perfect vehicle, for me. Leaves the question to whom they are supposed to expand their clientele by offering 25, 30 or even 50 miles instead of 18? And honestly, if you truly get the performance side story, the question of 18, 25, 30 or even 50 miles is a mood point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, CoolScoop said: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122431_ford-explorer-plug-in-hybrid-released-for-europe 18 miles may not be an official number yet... the Explorer PHEV for Europe that has essentially the same drive train but with a 0.5 kwh smaller battery is rated for 25 miles under their test method. I don't think the Euro test method results are comparable to test methods for the U.S.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 50 minutes ago, EcoBoost said: Leaves the question to whom they are supposed to expand their clientele by offering 25, 30 or even 50 miles instead of 18? And honestly, if you truly get the performance side story, the question of 18, 25, 30 or even 50 miles is a mood point. Here's the deal: If Aviator PIH is a performance vehicle, then why offer it as a plug in hybrid? Why not offer it as a straight hybrid, if indeed the EV range is irrelevant? The fact that Lincoln is offering it as a PIH means that there is an expectation from consumers familiar with that approach that a certain EV range can be expected. 18 miles for EV range is inadequate in this day and age for a PIH vehicle. That range is certainly not a game changer, it's not really even competitive. No argument from me regarding Aviator as a performance vehicle. Its EV range as a PIH is not up to snuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 38 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: Here's the deal: If Aviator PIH is a performance vehicle, then why offer it as a plug in hybrid? Why not offer it as a straight hybrid, if indeed the EV range is irrelevant? The fact that Lincoln is offering it as a PIH means that there is an expectation from consumers familiar with that approach that a certain EV range can be expected. 18 miles for EV range is inadequate in this day and age for a PIH vehicle. That range is certainly not a game changer, it's not really even competitive. No argument from me regarding Aviator as a performance vehicle. Its EV range as a PIH is not up to snuff. The PIH is for maximum sustained high performance - with a regular hybrid you don’t store enough battery power for that. its a little disappointing but if the alternative was to compromise other areas then I think it was the right choice, the price alone puts it out of reach of most normal PIH buyers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellanca Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 As John Davis said in the TFL review it wasn’t meant to be for efficiency; no one is paying $70K to save money on fuel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 3 hours ago, jcartwright99 said: I don't need to visit you in California to see million dollar homes. I can just walk a couple blocks away from my sons school on the North Shore of Lake Michigan. Yes, I see Teslas, Toyota/Lexus Hybrids, along with high end sports cars. The other thing I see in the same driveways are Lexus GX460s, Navigators, Yukons, Escalades, and other full size luxury SUV's. I hate to break it to you but not many people are going to fully give up their SUV's for a Prius. Perceived environmentally friendly folks but don't you dare take away their luxury gas guzzler. As a shareholder, I don't want Ford to go all in on electrics when they aren't profitable. I actually think their pragmatic approach seems to be the least risky. If you haven't noticed, electrics are a minuscule part of the automobile market at this point. And I would suggest to you that if those people had the opportunity to buy the GX460s, Navigators, Escalades etc. In a "greener" PHEV option with the same - or better performance and substantially better MPG they would buy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy62 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Hmmm. I have a 2013 Ford Fusion Energi PHEV that gets 21 miles all electric. I put gas in it once a year. When I realized that Ford was not going to improve the Energi I bought a 2016 Tesla that gets 270 miles on a charge. I also have 10 kW of PV solar panels on the roof of my house. Since September 2013 they have produced 69,000 kWh. For the record I hate SUVs and trucks. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolScoop Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) https://www.plugincars.com/cars Actually,18 miles is very competitive with other luxury performance plug in hybrids... while making substantially more power the most. Edited August 16, 2019 by CoolScoop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 hour ago, CoolScoop said: https://www.plugincars.com/cars Actually,18 miles is very competitive with other luxury performance plug in hybrids... while making substantially more power the most. Some of those numbers are old. The 2020 XC90 is now rated at 20 miles. Which means the Aviator, the newest model, is at the bottom of the pack with its most logical competition - XC90, Range Rover Sport, and Porsche Cayenne. Competitive - sure, "very" - not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 40 minutes ago, msm859 said: Some of those numbers are old. The 2020 XC90 is now rated at 20 miles. Which means the Aviator, the newest model, is at the bottom of the pack with its most logical competition - XC90, Range Rover Sport, and Porsche Cayenne. Competitive - sure, "very" - not so sure. But where does it rank on power? And don’t say that doesn’t matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolScoop Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Yes, matters much it does... those who can't understand don't know the power of the PIH side!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 hours ago, akirby said: But where does it rank on power? And don’t say that doesn’t matter. Yes, that matters. And I am glad it tops in that category. But this is not an abstract concern. I am in the market and the Aviator is a top contender. However, for the family suv I care more about reducing my carbon footprint. I am replacing an Explorer Platinum which at 365 hp is plenty. I suspect the 400 hp base Aviator would be even more "plenty". So for me the GT is about the "green" side. I am willing to pay $15k+ over the base for that - not the extra hp per se. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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