Bronco Delayed

[FR739]

5 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

It's ok to want a V8, and you're no troglodyte. However, when a non v8 has better numbers and power curve, what's the logic? Sound? If it is that's ok. For me,  sound is cool but performance is better. 

I’m unaware of any naturally aspirated V6 that can match the efficiency, capability, and power output of a V8.  
 

But for me it’s not all about power numbers.  It’s about the feeling I get when I hear an engine wind out. It’s the simplicity, it’s the visceral reaction I get when I start one up.  
 

A V6, turbo or not, reminds me of a minivan.  I wouldn’t want a fun vehicle to sound like a minivan.  To me, a V6 is something you put in a vehicle that has no soul.  It’s nothing more than a vehicle to get you from point A to point B. It’s probably the era I grew up in.  The cool cars had V8s.  The mommy mobiles that you didn’t want to be seen in had V6s.  
 

V6s have their place, but not in a fun vehicle.  There’s a reason the Mustang still has a V8. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, FR739 said:

I’m unaware of any naturally aspirated V6 that can match the efficiency, capability, and power output of a V8.  
 

But for me it’s not all about power numbers.  It’s about the feeling I get when I hear an engine wind out. It’s the simplicity, it’s the visceral reaction I get when I start one up.  
 

A V6, turbo or not, reminds me of a minivan.  I wouldn’t want a fun vehicle to sound like a minivan.  To me, a V6 is something you put in a vehicle that has no soul.  It’s nothing more than a vehicle to get you from point A to point B. It’s probably the era I grew up in.  The cool cars had V8s.  The mommy mobiles that you didn’t want to be seen in had V6s.  
 

V6s have their place, but not in a fun vehicle.  There’s a reason the Mustang still has a V8. 

There is also a reason the mustang and f150 and Bronco and Bronco Sport have ecoboost engines.  My ecoboost f150 does not sound or drive like a minivan.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

There is also a reason the mustang and f150 and Bronco and Bronco Sport have ecoboost engines.  My ecoboost f150 does not sound or drive like a minivan.

The 3.7 in my flex does not sound or drive like a minivan.... 

[02MustangGT]

3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

The 3.7 in my flex does not sound or drive like a minivan.... 

What does a minivan sound or drive like?   I don’t understand the comparison but anyway, the Flex never had a 3.7L engine option.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

19 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

What does a minivan sound or drive like?   I don’t understand the comparison but anyway, the Flex never had a 3.7L engine option.  

FR739 equated V6s to minivans. I doesn't matter what engine my Flex has, you missed the point completely. 

[02MustangGT]

44 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

FR739 equated V6s to minivans. I doesn't matter what engine my Flex has, you missed the point completely. 

I did?  I read FR379’s post prior to responding to yours.   I4, V6, V8, whatever, to say a Flex doesn’t “sound or drive like a minivan” pretty much sums up your lack of comprehension.  Do you know what a minivan sounds or drives like?   Probably a lot like a Flex with a 3.5L V6.  

Edited December 6, 2020 by 02MustangGT

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

I did?  I read FR379’s post prior to responding to yours.   I4, V6, V8, whatever, to say a Flex doesn’t “sound or drive like a minivan” pretty much sums up your lack of comprehension.  Do you know what a minivan sounds or drives like?   Probably a lot like a Flex with a 3.5L V6.  

Yes I do, my family has owned minivans in the past. The Flex has a much throatier exhaust note than any minivan I've ever heard. As for how it drives the Flex is much more planted to the road and doesn't float like an unstable cloud over bumps. Much peppier with the throttle too. 

Also, this: 

5 hours ago, FR739 said:

A V6, turbo or not, reminds me of a minivan.

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

5 hours ago, FR739 said:

V6s have their place, but not in a fun vehicle.  There’s a reason the Mustang still has a V8. 

It ain't gonna wake up the neighbors but you can have some hella good fun in a V6 Mustang. I've done it before. 

[ice-capades]

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It ain't gonna wake up the neighbors but you can have some hella good fun in a V6 Mustang. I've done it before. 

 

And on the Mustang GT's equipped with the Active Valve Performance Exhaust (19B) you can program "Quiet Mode" so the neighbors won't complain.  

[Gurgeh]

Automakers these days have figured out how, through various boosting and sound deadening technologies, to make much more powerful and quieter engines with smaller displacement, but some care more about noise than performance it seems. It is, in fact, the single thing I hated the most about the Acura RDX I test drove, which puts out loud fake noise through the speakers when you put it into sport mode. Personally, I want power to accelerate and pass. In fact, I want a lot more power than "adequate." I also want a quiet cabin where I can hear music and talk to my passengers, and despise vehicles that have been configured to be needlessly loud, whether it's fake noise or the purposeless removal of sound reducing equipment. It is why I like Ford's EB engines. They might not produce the best gas mileage when configured for performance, but wow, those 2.7, 3.0 and 3.5 V6 EBs really pump out the power, and they're pretty quiet (at least the one in my Nautilus is).

 

But then, that's just me.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Gurgeh

[PREMiERdrum]

At the risk of getting this thread back on topic... the order bank opening delay is due to options availability and changes. The delivery "delay" is in anticipation of possible COVID-related supplier issues. 

 

Job 1 hasn't changed. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by PREMiERdrum

[FordBuyer]

17 hours ago, akirby said:

There is also a reason the mustang and f150 and Bronco and Bronco Sport have ecoboost engines.  My ecoboost f150 does not sound or drive like a minivan.

The Ford GT sounds pretty good going up and down the rev band. And it's a V6 that can easily handle 600+hp and perform as it proved winning LeMans in 2016. 24 hours and over 3,000 miles running at full song.

[FR739]

4 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

Automakers these days have figured out how, through various boosting and sound deadening technologies, to make much more powerful and quieter engines with smaller displacement, but some care more about noise than performance it seems. It is, in fact, the single thing I hated the most about the Acura RDX I test drove, which puts out loud fake noise through the speakers when you put it into sport mode. Personally, I want power to accelerate and pass. In fact, I want a lot more power than "adequate." I also want a quiet cabin where I can hear music and talk to my passengers, and despise vehicles that have been configured to be needlessly loud, whether it's fake noise or the purposeless removal of sound reducing equipment. It is why I like Ford's EB engines. They might not produce the best gas mileage when configured for performance, but wow, those 2.7, 3.0 and 3.5 V6 EBs really pump out the power, and they're pretty quiet (at least the one in my Nautilus is).

 

But then, that's just me.

I think you’re a bit confused.  The sound something makes and how loud it is are two very different things.  Bagpipes are very loud but the sound that comes out of them could be used to extract information from the worlds toughest spy’s.   It’s horrible.  
 

I’m speaking directly to how a V8 sounds.  Many years ago my good friend had a 2014 F150 with the 5.0 V8.  In a rather basic, mid level F150 it was a symphony.  Just a wonderful sound.  It wasn’t loud, just pleasing unlike the 3.5 EB we test drove.  When his lease was up we test drove again as the 2.7L was out and we both laughed at the noise it made.  Ultimately he went with another 5.0.  
 

You also seem to think that a V8 and power are mutually exclusive.  Like you, I also love having power on tap and being able to accelerate quickly.  Where I live, there are times where I will find myself on long back roads between farm fields and I’ll just run my vehicle up to the speed limiter just to hear the engine and feel the rate of acceleration.  I get it, it’s fun.  But by no means is my V8 powered vehicle slow.  It scoots.  
 

I will agree on the fake noise though.  It’s truly bad.  I think The Straight Pipes did a review of an Edge Sport and when they put it in sport mode it activated the fake sound system and it was comically bad.  However the diaphragm on another friends 4.6L Mustang that piped intake noise into the cabin was rather cool.  It worked very well and sounded great. 

[CoolScoop]

^^^^ In the year 2035, if man is still alive, when he starts his electric ride, he will hear... the sound of silence!

Edited December 6, 2020 by CoolScoop

[probowler]

15 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

^^^^ In the year 2035, if man is still alive, when he starts his electric ride, he will hear... the sound of silence!

People are still driving vehicles from the 30s.... You think the ICE is going to disappear in 15 years?

[CoolScoop]

43 minutes ago, probowler said:

People are still driving vehicles from the 30s.... You think the ICE is going to disappear in 15 years?

No, but the writing is on the wall.  The time is quickly approaching, whether we like it or not, when its mandatory that all new car sales are BEVs.  Even the newly conservative UK just upped their timetable from 2035 to 2030, with the exception for hybrids. That will start a downhill slide where there's a steady decline in the demand for gasoline and the number of gas pumps will decrease as charging stations increase.  At some point there will just be a few novilty gas pumps around for those with 'Classic ICE Cars'... and gas will be super expensive.  

Edited December 6, 2020 by CoolScoop

[FR739]

15 minutes ago, probowler said:

People are still driving vehicles from the 30s.... You think the ICE is going to disappear in 15 years?

 

As “virtuous” governments make feel good policy despite reality and and science, they could very well just ban gas stations.  The new black market will be gasoline and other daily items that people use.  Cocaine for everyone but jail time for someone that burns gasoline. 
 

 

31 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

^^^^ In the year 2035, if man is still alive, when he starts his electric ride, he will hear... the sound of silence!

Governments have already forced automakers to install noise makers on electric cars.  
 

Talk about reinventing the wheel, because of this silly EV push, we have vehicles that have poor heat, decreased range, long refill times, very damaging manufacturing, forced to make noise to protect pedestrians not paying attention, etc.  If only there was a technology that solved all of those problems
 

*looks over at an ICE powered vehicle*

[FordBuyer]

2 hours ago, CoolScoop said:

No, but the writing is on the wall.  The time is quickly approaching, whether we like it or not, when its mandatory that all new car sales are BEVs.  Even the newly conservative UK just upped their timetable from 2035 to 2030, with the exception for hybrids. That will start a downhill slide where there's a steady decline in the demand for gasoline and the number of gas pumps will decrease as charging stations increase.  At some point there will just be a few novilty gas pumps around for those with 'Classic ICE Cars'... and gas will be super expensive.  

I have no idea what technology will eventually take down ICE, but it won't be electric. Too dirty.

[Sevensecondsuv]

All these people claiming the 2.7 is somehow superior to a 5.0L coyote V8 need to go test drive some F150s.  There's a reason the 5.0L is higher up the option line.

 

The 2.7L is the option in the Bronco because it's "enough" for most people, the wide ass coyote would have been harder to fit in the Bronco, and Ford doesn't think they need a V8 to hit their sales targets.  But let's not pretend the 5.0L wouldn't be preferable in many ways from a consumer standpoint.

[probowler]

9 minutes ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

All these people claiming the 2.7 is somehow superior to a 5.0L coyote V8 need to go test drive some F150s.  There's a reason the 5.0L is higher up the option line.

 

The 2.7L is the option in the Bronco because it's "enough" for most people, the wide ass coyote would have been harder to fit in the Bronco, and Ford doesn't think they need a V8 to hit their sales targets.  But let's not pretend the 5.0L wouldn't be preferable in many ways from a consumer standpoint.

For the initial launch, they're probably right. The Bronco name will sell itself. Hopefully in the future they'll see a V8 as a way to reignite excitement and drum up more sales.

[akirby]

17 minutes ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

All these people claiming the 2.7 is somehow superior to a 5.0L coyote V8 need to go test drive some F150s.  There's a reason the 5.0L is higher up the option line.

 

The 2.7L is the option in the Bronco because it's "enough" for most people, the wide ass coyote would have been harder to fit in the Bronco, and Ford doesn't think they need a V8 to hit their sales targets.  But let's not pretend the 5.0L wouldn't be preferable in many ways from a consumer standpoint.

I’d take the 2.7 every time.  Lighter and gets better mpg when driven appropriately and I prefer the low end torque.  And sound is t an issue for me.  So the 5.0 is only preferable to folks who just love v8s for the sound or nostalgia or they hate turbos.  Nothing wrong with liking a V8 just don’t pretend it’s objectively superior.

[Sevensecondsuv]

32 minutes ago, akirby said:

I’d take the 2.7 every time.  Lighter and gets better mpg when driven appropriately and I prefer the low end torque.  And sound is t an issue for me.  So the 5.0 is only preferable to folks who just love v8s for the sound or nostalgia or they hate turbos.  Nothing wrong with liking a V8 just don’t pretend it’s objectively superior.

In every measurable attribute other than fuel economy, the 5.0 is superior.  The 3.5eb is a somewhat different argument, as the additional displacement allows it to exceed some of the 5.0 specifications.

 

I like turbos too and think the 2.7 is a great engine, even in Bronco!  But I'm not delusional about where each one sits relative to the other in the Ford engine hierarchy.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

In every measurable attribute other than fuel economy, the 5.0 is superior.

I should have acknowledged the 5.0 is faster once you get it wound up, but I guarantee the 2.7L is faster off the line with more low rpm torque.  That’s why I like driving ecoboosts - you rarely have to exceed 50% throttle even when driving fast.  And it’s lighter so it should handle better.  Those attributes are more important to me than sound or nostalgia or redline performance.   And I understand others feel differently.

[Sevensecondsuv]

3 minutes ago, akirby said:

I should have acknowledged the 5.0 is faster once you get it wound up, but I guarantee the 2.7L is faster off the line with more low rpm torque.

 

Replace "2.7L" with "4.9L" and you've replicated the forum banter from 20 years ago concerning the 80s/90s F150s lol.

[FR739]

8 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

I have no idea what technology will eventually take down ICE, but it won't be electric. Too dirty.

Totally agree.  EVs don’t do much in terms of saving us from dirty motoring.  You’re just moving when it happens.  At the beginning battery mining is extremely harmful where tailpipe emissions are where ICE vehicles are the most dirty (although dirty is arguable as there are more cars on the road now and the air has never been cleaner). 

 

7 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

All these people claiming the 2.7 is somehow superior to a 5.0L coyote V8 need to go test drive some F150s.  There's a reason the 5.0L is higher up the option line.

 

The 2.7L is the option in the Bronco because it's "enough" for most people, the wide ass coyote would have been harder to fit in the Bronco, and Ford doesn't think they need a V8 to hit their sales targets.  But let's not pretend the 5.0L wouldn't be preferable in many ways from a consumer standpoint.

100% right.  They could have offered the Bronco with a 3.0 Vulcan out of a 1993 Taurus along with a 4-speed transmission and people would have preordered it the same as we saw when it was available.  Heck Ford could have offered it “BYOPT” (bring your own powertrain) and I bet they still would have had 50k reservations. 

 

6 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

In every measurable attribute other than fuel economy, the 5.0 is superior.  The 3.5eb is a somewhat different argument, as the additional displacement allows it to exceed some of the 5.0 specifications.

Depends what fuel economy you’re talking about.  EPA test that is as far removed from real life as it can be?  Sure the 2.7 does well.  Real world though?  The gap is much narrower.  I’ve been around EB engines long enough to realize that unless you drive it like your Mother Theresa,  it’s going to consume fuel at the same rate as a V8.  
 

I drove a 3.5EB powered Transit for work (absolutely ridiculous powertrain for a van) and it was fun.  Turbo lag was very noticeable but when they spooled up it scooted.  But fuel economy wasn’t spectacular and I think the van would have been fine with a N/A engine.