Electric Vehicle Discussion Thread - Ford Related

[bzcat]

11 hours ago, j2sys said:

 

http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=82494

 

Jan 2026 for Bronco Sport EV rolling down the line in Spain, they claim.

 

This jives with the announcement Ford made about converting Valencia to EV production last week.

 

We are talking about next gen Bronco Sport basically. I'm sure it will be GE2 based. 

 

[jpd80]

18 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

This jives with the announcement Ford made about converting Valencia to EV production last week.

 

We are talking about next gen Bronco Sport basically. I'm sure it will be GE2 based. 

 

Random thought, what architecture is going under the BEV Puma?
Is that Ford doing  a clever rework of the narrower  GE1 for its own purposes?

Edited June 30, 2022 by jpd80

[Harley Lover]

39 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Random thought, what architecture is going under the BEV Puma?
Is that Ford doing  a clever rework of the narrower  GE1 for its own purposes?

 

Wouldn't it almost have to be MEQ? Doesn't Ford have a contractual obligation to use x amount from VW?

[jpd80]

27 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Wouldn't it almost have to be MEQ? Doesn't Ford have a contractual obligation to use x amount from VW?

Ford has only agreed to 1.2 million MEB units over six year period and that’s based on just two vehicles, the ones at Cologne. There’s no agreement to use MEQ and yes, it’s still a couple of years away.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2022/03/volkswagen-and-ford-expand-collaboration-on-meb-electric-platfor.html#

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by jpd80

[Harley Lover]

44 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Ford has only agreed to 1.2 million MEB units over six year period and that’s based on just two vehicles, the ones at Cologne. There’s no agreement to use MEQ and yes, it’s still a couple of years away.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2022/03/volkswagen-and-ford-expand-collaboration-on-meb-electric-platfor.html#

 

What is the current thinking about what these 2 vehicles will be? Sort of ID 4 sister and a 'sport fastback' version of same?

[jpd80]

26 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

What is the current thinking about what these 2 vehicles will be? Sort of ID 4 sister and a 'sport fastback' version of same?

European mid sized utility (Escape sized) and a crossover (Focus Active sized)

Some of the rumours getting around that VW is ready to ditch it work on MEB because can’t compete with Tesla on build time and complexity causing cost problems, all to be shared by Ford….Hackett didn’t read the fine print on VW supplying batteries, motors and electrical switchgear, it’s the same bad deal they had with Magna based Focus EV, supplier makes the profit, not Ford……

Edited June 30, 2022 by jpd80

[bzcat]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Random thought, what architecture is going under the BEV Puma?
Is that Ford doing  a clever rework of the narrower  GE1 for its own purposes?

 

Puma and Transit Courier will use modified B2 platform. Ford is build them in Romania which is not slated for MEB (nor GE2) investment.

 

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Puma and Transit Courier will use modified B2 platform. Ford is build them in Romania which is not slated for MEB (nor GE2) investment.

 

Correct and thinking about that,  developing  a true EV will probably be easier if both remain FWD, just add the motor and drive to the engine cradle and modify the floor pan to accept battery pack. AWD is probably unnecessary with such a short wheelbase, less than 100”.

 

For C2 products, extending that FWD based EV approach is possible, even adding AWD in a rear carrier is possible and probably much cheaper to do that MME’s GE platform. So yes, consider me very interested in the smallest BEV execution as a template for C2 if Ford doesn’t use VW’s MEB.

 

Just my opinion,
The  original plan for C1 electrification failed as a FWD vehicle because the wrong vehicles were selected, imagine that Ford had switched from Focus EV to Escape EV instead of C-Max……that bad decision to develop an electrified C-Max all stems from Ford quitting on the original hybrid Escape right when they should have doubled down. I won’t go on and on about this but really, Ford brass caused a lot of their own misery and rework by completely misreading the wants and needs of buyers (imagine that).

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by jpd80

[rperez817]

Ford of Europe worked with Dortmund University in Germany to create a robotic EV charger prototype.

 

For most of us, filling a car with fuel, or charging an electric vehicle is a simple task. But for disabled drivers, people with reduced mobility and older people it can be a significant challenge.

Now, Ford has developed a prototype robot charging station that drivers operate via their smartphone from inside their electric vehicle. 1 The technology could enable disabled drivers to stay in the car while charging, or they could leave the car while the robot does all the work.

Disabled drivers have already identified ease of charging as a key purchase consideration for electric vehicles. 2 Ford is testing the robot charging station as part of a research project to develop hands-free charging solutions for electric vehicles and fully automatic charging for autonomous vehicles.

Following initial lab testing, Ford researchers are now putting the robot charging station to the test in real-life situations. Once activated, the station cover slides open and the charging arm extends towards the inlet with the help of a tiny camera. For the trial, drivers were able to monitor the charge status via the FordPass app. 3 After charging, the arm retracts back into place.

In future, the robot charging station, custom-made by Dortmund University, in Germany, could be installed at disabled parking spaces, in car parks or at private homes. Further applications could include fast and efficient charging of company fleets. The technology could also support more powerful charging to charge vehicles in a much shorter time.

Looking ahead, the process could become fully automated, with minimal or no driver involvement. The driver would simply send the vehicle to the charging station, with the infrastructure ensuring it reaches and returns from its destination autonomously.

 

 

[slemke]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

Ford of Europe worked with Dortmund University in Germany to create a robotic EV charger prototype.

 

 

 

 

 

Just what I need….my car sneaking out at night for a few electrons.

 

 Maybe Apple will come out with a mag safe charging cable so you can’t drive off with the charger attached.  Or is there some sort of interlock that won’t let the car move if it is plugged in?

[rperez817]

7 hours ago, slemke said:

Or is there some sort of interlock that won’t let the car move if it is plugged in?

 

That's correct slemke. Both my Tesla Model S and my wife's Mustang Mach-E have an interlock feature in the car's software that prevents the vehicle from activating "Drive" or "Reverse" while plugged in. This should be true of all other BEV and PHEV cars too. J1772 and IEC 62196 Type 2 connectors use the CP and PP pins to communicate charger insertion status to the vehicle. CHAdeMO does the same via the PP and C-H/C-L pins.

[AM222]

On 7/1/2022 at 1:06 AM, bzcat said:

 

Puma and Transit Courier will use modified B2 platform. Ford is build them in Romania which is not slated for MEB (nor GE2) investment.

 

I think Ford should expand their range of subcompact EVs. They need a sub-Puma EV city car/CUV. Easier for people in big Cities to go electric (most likely the areas with more developed charging infrastructures).

Edited July 21, 2022 by AM222

[akirby]

1 hour ago, AM222 said:

I think Ford should expand their range of subcompact EVs. They need a sub-Puma EV city car/CUV. Easier for people in big Cities to go electric (most likely the areas with more developed charging infrastructures).

Is that really what buyers want though?  Sub compacts have never done well in NA and we’re traditionally only sold as the cheapest vehicle.

[rperez817]

35 minutes ago, akirby said:

Is that really what buyers want though?  Sub compacts have never done well in NA and we’re traditionally only sold as the cheapest vehicle.

 

Europe, Latin America, China, and some other Asian markets at Ford should have decent customer demand for a sub-Puma size city car/crossover type BEV.

 

In the U.S. and Canada, there may be an opportunity for a Ford managed fleet of such vehicles to be used by urban mobility service offerings from Ford's Advanced Technologies/Smart Mobility operations.

[bzcat]

Ford doesn't even sell any A-segment ICE, it's doubtful they will venture into A-segment BEV. 

 

GM China is the only car company that has successfully sold a high volume A-segment BEV. 

 

The issue with A-segment in Europe is that it is really entry level price point which means it will be low on the EV priority list for car companies. The only moderately successful products are premium priced: Fiat 500 and Smart ForTwo. B-segment BEV like Puma will be most of a priority since it is less price sensitive. 

 

 

[AM222]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

Is that really what buyers want though?  Sub compacts have never done well in NA and we’re traditionally only sold as the cheapest vehicle.

Sorry,  I meant for the rest of the world (outside the US).

 

Many rival brands in Europe and Asia, particularly China have been gaining some EV market share because of affordable small EVs. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by AM222

[AM222]

4 hours ago, bzcat said:

Ford doesn't even sell any A-segment ICE, it's doubtful they will venture into A-segment BEV. 

 

GM China is the only car company that has successfully sold a high volume A-segment BEV. 

 

The issue with A-segment in Europe is that it is really entry level price point which means it will be low on the EV priority list for car companies. The only moderately successful products are premium priced: Fiat 500 and Smart ForTwo. B-segment BEV like Puma will be most of a priority since it is less price sensitive. 

 

 

The thing with A-segment city cars like the VW Up/ e Up is these cars are mainly used around the city,  so range and finding charging stations isn't much of an issue. 

 

[bzcat]

10 hours ago, AM222 said:

The thing with A-segment city cars like the VW Up/ e Up is these cars are mainly used around the city,  so range and finding charging stations isn't much of an issue. 

 

 

Agree, but they still cost too much right now. A-segment buyers are extremely price sensitive otherwise they would have purchased a B-segment car. Given the supply constrains and lots of low hanging fruits in other segments where margin is more healthy, I don't see car companies going big time into A-segment EV until they've rolled out EVs in B, C, and D segment. 

[AM222]

2 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Agree, but they still cost too much right now. A-segment buyers are extremely price sensitive otherwise they would have purchased a B-segment car. Given the supply constrains and lots of low hanging fruits in other segments where margin is more healthy, I don't see car companies going big time into A-segment EV until they've rolled out EVs in B, C, and D segment. 

I think the Chinese automakers are ahead of the game when it comes to small EVs since they are now releasing small cars with dedicated EV platforms.  
BYD for example is launching their big-subcompact Atto 2 in Australia for $35,000 AUD, about $24,000 US.

-evetrend.ca

In export markets BYD is known for their commercial vehicles (including Europe and the USA) but now they are starting to export their EV cars and SUVs. BYD also supplies batteries to Ford (in China), and is expected to soon supply batteries to Toyota, Tesla, Suzuki, and Mercedes.

In Norway they even sell their pure electric 510hp dual-motor 7-seater mid-size SUV that can accelerate 0-62mph in 4.6 seconds.
.
*This SUV was developed as a PHEV and BEV.
 

Edited July 22, 2022 by AM222

[jpd80]

The Ford Team visit Sandy Munro and Farley opens up about Ford’s electrification plans

 

 

 

This is the first time I’ve heard a Ford CEO speak so plainly about the uphill battle with electrification,

how much they are learning by doing first time BEVs like Lightning, Mach E and E Transit

Part of me is really concerned at how Ford and Doug Field are focusing on software,

makes me wonder if subscription is the next big thing as in Cha Ching charging buyers

for everything…..

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Part of me is really concerned at how Ford and Doug Field are focusing on software,

makes me wonder if subscription is the next big thing as in Cha Ching charging buyers

for everything…..

 

I don't have issue paying extra for something-but once it interferes with what I would consider normal operation of a vehicle, there is going to be a strong push back.

 

I know BMW got raked over the coals for their heated seats thing, but it was along the line of hey you didn't pay for it up front and want it now (you moved from the South to Chicago for example), I think a subscription fee or a one time charge to turn it on (if its built in) isn't a bad thing. 

[kyle]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The Ford Team visit Sandy Munro and Farley opens up about Ford’s electrification plans

 

 

 

This is the first time I’ve heard a Ford CEO speak so plainly about the uphill battle with electrification,

how much they are learning by doing first time BEVs like Lightning, Mach E and E Transit

 

Ya this was a great sit down meeting and very transparent conversations. Good for Sandy to be recognized by Farley, since he was a longtime Ford employee. 

 

 

 

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, kyle said:

Ya this was a great sit down meeting and very transparent conversations. Good for Sandy to be recognized by Farley, since he was a longtime Ford employee. 

Watching right to the end, there  was high praise for Sandy and his Tesla contributing so much by working with OEMs like Ford to improve products…poor old Sandy was choking up near the end, overwhelmed by the praise by Jim Farley and his team. Any past hard feelings seemed to have melted away, Farley really seems focused on improving first run products as much as possible. I wonder if they’re going to be using Munro and Associates more in the future…….

 

I also noticed no mention of GM as a competitor or a major player in BEVs when other major BEV competitors were being discussed, I wonder if that was an agreement before the show…..

Edited August 4, 2022 by jpd80

[jpd80]

9 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I don't have issue paying extra for something-but once it interferes with what I would consider normal operation of a vehicle, there is going to be a strong push back.

 

I know BMW got raked over the coals for their heated seats thing, but it was along the line of hey you didn't pay for it up front and want it now (you moved from the South to Chicago for example), I think a subscription fee or a one time charge to turn it on (if its built in) isn't a bad thing. 

I sense that Ford is going to use customer loyalty to ask for more and I think subscriptions for software is a way of simplifying builds and options - as you say, one time charges to turn on features already embedded. I just wonder how far they want to take that with subscriptions.

[rperez817]

35 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

I also noticed no mention of GM as a competitor or a major player in BEVs when other major BEV competitors were being discussed, I wonder if that was an agreement before the show…..

 

I don't think that is related to agreements between Farley and Munro, but simply Farley's own understanding of the ongoing automotive industry revolution. Prior to the Munro Live interview, the companies Farley has mentioned by name in terms of "the competitors Ford must address" are.

• Amazon
• Apple
• Baidu
• NIO
• Tesla
• Toyota

Farley is absolutely correct about each of those companies representing Ford's biggest competition nowadays, though I think Farley mentioned Toyota mainly because he used to work for them. Toyota's progress with BEV remains among the worst of all incumbent automakers.