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2005Explorer

Ranger Most Reliable Midsized Truck in 2021 CR Rankings

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https://gearjunkie.com/news/ford-ranger-stuns-toyota-tacoma-in-consumer-reports-annual-reliability-study

The Lincoln brand, ICE powered Mustang, and Explorer are doing poorly in reliability. Mustang Mach E is doing well so far and is proving to be much more reliable then Tesla. Lots of good info here.

Edited by 2005Explorer

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Overall reliability and model level predicted reliability - Ford.

image.png.8526c055cb4b561d78b25782573219a5.png

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Overall reliability and model level predicted reliability - Lincoln.

image.png.a7eb6f5444e11ed33ac442df966abe35.png

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I can't really understand why some of those are so low.  Mustang has been largely the same since '15, and it's supposedly unreliable?

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30 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I can't really understand why some of those are so low.  Mustang has been largely the same since '15, and it's supposedly unreliable?

 

Yeah, go figure. Escape and BS have the same powertrains and share many other parts and systems. No problems with my Escape after 19 months. CR never asked me. I believe the 2002 Taurus got poor ratings from CR and I drove mine 17 years with ONE recall. No reliability issues. I would also assume reliability has improved on the 2021 Explorer/Aviator in its 2nd year and hundreds of assembly tweaks.

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I'm a CR member and have been asked.

 

This is the largest survey of auto reliability available to the general public with a huge sample. CR's statisticians know their stuff and if a sample is too small or the data is unreliable they won't report it. So unless you've got big $$$ to pay for other data which may be no better, this is the most reliable data in the business, even if the data tells us that Ford and especially Lincoln have real reliability problems.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

I can't really understand why some of those are so low. Mustang has been largely the same since '15, and it's supposedly unreliable?

 

Explanation from Consumer Reports.

Quote

The Mustang sports car was last freshened for the 2018 model year. It lost its recommendation for 2022 due to a drop in reliability to well below average. Owners reported transmission issues with rough shifting that required going to the dealer to reset/reboot/update software. In-car electronic issues were also present, with the display screen freezing or going blank, which sometimes required hardware replacement. 

Ford didn’t provide comment on the survey results and the Mustang losing CR’s recommendation.

 

 

 

Edited by rperez817

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17 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Explanation from Consumer Reports.

 

 

 

I did get a software update to my Ecoboost Mustang at around 45,000 miles.  Made a huge difference. It shifted fine for for a long time.  Then I started noticing that certain downshifts were getting harsh and it slowly got worse.  The soft update fixed the problems.  

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

I can't really understand why some of those are so low.  Mustang has been largely the same since '15, and it's supposedly unreliable?


The S550 has always suffered from nitpicky issues, mostly interior related which doesn't surprise me. 

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1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

I'm a CR member and have been asked......

 

But that's the problem, only CR members are surveyed, not the general population.  The CR membership is not representative of the U.S. in general.  As of 2016, the average average age of a CR print subscriber was 65, for a digital subscriber, 56.  Income and education levels are different too.

 

That being said, for Lincoln to score dead last is an embarrassment.  Farley needs to address quality, and like now.

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28 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

Farley needs to address quality, and like now.


Trust me, they are at the plant level. 

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3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Overall reliability and model level predicted reliability - Ford.

image.png.8526c055cb4b561d78b25782573219a5.png

 

3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Overall reliability and model level predicted reliability - Lincoln.

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¡Hecho en Mexico! 

Primer y segundo lugar... 💪 🥇 🥈

Chicago... LOL the place is a dumpster fire 👎  4 years into the model cycle and the quality is spiraling down into the toilet? That's um... not normal. No wonder Ford won't commit to bring the Explorer and Aviator EV to Chicago. 

Edited by bzcat

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


The S550 has always suffered from nitpicky issues, mostly interior related which doesn't surprise me. 

 

Shrug.  My '18 has been trouble free.

 

I have noticed the shifting issue mentioned a couple times, but have had it reflashed and it's helped.

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1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

 

But that's the problem, only CR members are surveyed, not the general population.  The CR membership is not representative of the U.S. in general.  As of 2016, the average average age of a CR print subscriber was 65, for a digital subscriber, 56.  Income and education levels are different too.


This.  At least JD power is truly random.

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JD Power is mostly measuring different stuff, more short term customer impressions of newly delivered vehicles. 

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2 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

JD Power is mostly measuring different stuff, more short term customer impressions of newly delivered vehicles. 


Absolutely untrue.  They measure all problems within the first 3 years in their vehicle dependability survey.  You’re thinking of the initial quality survey.

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This survey isn't perfect and has a margin of error because of who is sampled, but just like a political poll you can draw some pretty good conclusions from the data. I am not suprised to see the Bronco Sport high because first it hasn't been on the market that long, second it had a good launch and third Hermosillo has a good reputation for quality. Ranger is a proven design built in a plant that also has a good reputation for quality.

 

The Chicago SUVs had problems from the start and looks like their dismal quality and reliability continues to plague them. Is it a design or manufacturing issue? That should be the question.

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2 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

JD Power is mostly measuring different stuff, more short term customer impressions of newly delivered vehicles. 

 

You are correct GearheadGrrrl about J.D. Power IQS. It measures both design issues as well as malfunctions in the first 90 days of new vehicle ownership. However as akirby mentioned, J.D. Power has another survey called VDS that measures problems (again both design issues and malfunctions) during the past 12 months by original owners of three-year-old vehicles.

 

Consumer Reports reliability survey by comparison is much more extensive, the latest one gathered data on cars and light trucks for model years 2000 to 2021. Also unlike J.D. Power IQS and VDS, CR reliability survey only covers malfunctions considered to be serious due to cost, safety, or downtime and does not directly address design issues.

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42 minutes ago, 2005Explorer said:

This survey isn't perfect and has a margin of error because of who is sampled, but just like a political poll you can draw some pretty good conclusions from the data. I am not suprised to see the Bronco Sport high because first it hasn't been on the market that long, second it had a good launch and third Hermosillo has a good reputation for quality. Ranger is a proven design built in a plant that also has a good reputation for quality.

 

The Chicago SUVs had problems from the start and looks like their dismal quality and reliability continues to plague them. Is it a design or manufacturing issue? That should be the question.

 

So are police departments who buy them in big numbers complaining about them big time? Police cars take a lot more abuse than some senior driving to Costco and church. What better testing ground than as police car. 

 

And sales have been good for the new Explorer and holding up. Ditto for Aviator. And my Escape has been bulletproof so far other than faulty backup camera. 

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55 minutes ago, akirby said:

Absolutely untrue.  They measure all problems within the first 3 years in their vehicle dependability survey.  

 

VDS measures problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of three-year-old vehicles at the time respondents complete the survey. Not "all problems within the first 3 years". U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study | J.D. Power (jdpower.com)

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1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So are police departments who buy them in big numbers complaining about them big time? Police cars take a lot more abuse than some senior driving to Costco and church. What better testing ground than as police car. 

 

And sales have been good for the new Explorer and holding up. Ditto for Aviator. And my Escape has been bulletproof so far other than faulty backup camera. 

Well what we don’t know is what sort of problems people are having. If it’s problems with all the fancy optional electronics and equipment on the civilian models, that might not show up on a very basic Police SUV.

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10 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

VDS measures problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of three-year-old vehicles at the time respondents complete the survey. Not "all problems within the first 3 years". U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study | J.D. Power (jdpower.com)


Thanks for the correction.  
 

98% of vehicles today are generally reliable and can easily go 10 years with just routine maintenance.  The exceptions tend to be specific issues like the I4 ecoboost coolant problem, PTU failures, assembly issues, etc that are specific to one model or part or plant.

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4 hours ago, akirby said:


Thanks for the correction.  
 

98% of vehicles today are generally reliable and can easily go 10 years with just routine maintenance.  The exceptions tend to be specific issues like the I4 ecoboost coolant problem, PTU failures, assembly issues, etc that are specific to one model or part or plant.

 

Good points. It seems like the term "reliability" has changed over time from being stranded on the side of the road to electronic glitches for the most part excepting the problems you pointed out above. Even erratic trans shifts are software related.

 

It seems to me Ford has pushed the technology envelope more than most with ecobost engines and the sort while Asians pretty much keep with the tried and true powertrains. The Navigator, Aviator, and Explorer have really pushed that theme even more. I will probably go with an extended warranty on my hybrid because of the added complications and display screens.

 

Since the Big 3 are behind the 8 ball, better they try to take more risks and push the envelope out further. Standing pat will not work. 

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28 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Since the Big 3 are behind the 8 ball, better they try to take more risks and push the envelope out further. Standing pat will not work. 


I would argue the only 1 of the big 3 that are truly behind the 8 ball is FCA Stellantis. Ford has a bunch of stuff coming in the next 2-3 years and GM is not far behind that. 

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52 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Standing pat will not work. 

 

32 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Ford has a bunch of stuff coming in the next 2-3 years and GM is not far behind that. 

 

Good points FordBuyer and fuzzymoomoo. This presents a dilemma for automakers. It's much easier to get high rankings in reliability surveys with old fashioned, tried-and-true products like Ranger than innovative or completely new/redesigned products like Mustang Mach-E (which makes the better than average reliability rating for Mustang Mach-E a HUGE accomplishment for Ford).

 

At the same time, the automotive industry is currently undergoing a once in a lifetime transformation with the transition to 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles, and mobility services/software over the next 20-30 years.

 

Tesla far more than any other automotive brand has refused to stand pat, and has played a key role in the whole automotive industry's ongoing transformation. However, it ranks 27th out of 28 brands in CR's automotive reliability survey this year. Model 3 is average, all other Tesla models are much worse than average.

 

The challenge for both startup and incumbent automakers will be to combine innovation with product reliability.

Edited by rperez817

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