Bellanca Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 If that is the case, that the Lincoln BEV they were to show next year was the Aviator, why not make an announcement clarifying this like they did when they pulled the plug on the Rivian venture? I wanted to go electric for my next car but wound up ordering another Aviator 2 weeks ago since dealerships are offering absurd money for cars these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 12/13/2021 at 6:14 AM, silvrsvt said: Pushing back something 18 months or so isn't a full redesign-The real issue is the lack of batteries and this isn't a Mach E issue-its the demand for the Lightning that is causing this. It makes zero sense to add another two products to a lineup that is already limited by battery supply. Ford is scrambling to keep up with the demand for the Lightning and delaying the BEV Explorer makes sense in that context. Till BOC comes online, its going to be "hard" for Ford to source more batteries for its products. The Explorer/Aviator will use different batteries and motors than Mach E/Lightning. Delaying the Explorer does not help Ford keep up with Lightning demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Trader 10 said: The Explorer/Aviator will use different batteries and motors than Mach E/Lightning. Delaying the Explorer does not help Ford keep up with Lightning demand. Explorer doesn't use the same battery cells as Mach E but it is likely to share the SK battery cells with Lightning since SK is Ford's new exclusive battery supplier. So pushing back Explorer could allow Ford to make more Lightning. Remember, there will only be 1 SK plant in Georgia available to build batteries for Ford's new EVs in 2022 and first part of 2023. Blue Oval City battery plants in TN and KY won't come online until very late 2024 or early 2025 - exactly the time Ford now say it will launch Explorer and next gen TE2 Lightning (2025). The original launch date of Explorer in mid 2023 would mean Ford will have to divert some batteries from the Georgia plant to Explorer. Now the entire Georgia plant's output can go towards Lightning. Edited December 16, 2021 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 6 hours ago, bzcat said: Remember, there will only be 1 SK plant in Georgia available to build batteries for Ford's new EVs in 2022 and first part of 2023. Blue Oval City battery plants in TN and KY won't come online until very late 2024 or early 2025 - exactly the time Ford now say it will launch Explorer and next gen TE2 Lightning (2025). The original launch date of Explorer in mid 2023 would mean Ford will have to divert some batteries from the Georgia plant to Explorer. Now the entire Georgia plant's output can go towards Lightning. The two SK battery plants in Georgia will have a combined output of 21.5 GWh. That plant is apparently not part of BlueOval SK, but is an SK Battery America plant (it is contractually obligated to supply both Ford and the VW plant in Chattanooga for the ID 4). BZ, if we assume a 50/50 split between Ford and VW, how many Lightnings would 10.75 GWh support? Each of the plants to be built by BlueOval SK (1 at Blue Oval City and 2 in Kentucky) will have a capacity of 43 GWh, so in total Ford will have 129 GWh plus the estimated 10.75 GWh from Georgia. Is it possible that the Kentucky location was chosen to be central to OAC, Michigan, Louisville (obviously), Chicago, Missouri, and perhaps even Mexico? Or might Ford be planning another announcement for an additional battery plant? Or - when do they announce a plant in Europe? Or will they? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Harley Lover said: Is it possible that the Kentucky location was chosen to be central to OAC, Michigan, Louisville (obviously), Chicago, Missouri, and perhaps even Mexico? Or might Ford be planning another announcement for an additional battery plant? Or - when do they announce a plant in Europe? Or will they? I think your right about it being central to a lot of plants, but also labor and land/taxes played a part in selecting it also. It is normally not a smart idea to build a greenfield plant in a state that has an established manufacturing base and already leans towards a certain political affiliation, which is why the Mississippi river area is posed for alot of growth over the next 20 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: I think your right about it being central to a lot of plants, but also labor and land/taxes played a part in selecting it also. It is normally not a smart idea to build a greenfield plant in a state that has an established manufacturing base and already leans towards a certain political affiliation, which is why the Mississippi river area is posed for alot of growth over the next 20 years or so. A lot of it has to do with the fact that Michigan has not offered economic incentives like the southern states do. That is now rectified since the other day when Michigan set aside $1 Billion for these projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Harley Lover said: The two SK battery plants in Georgia will have a combined output of 21.5 GWh. That plant is apparently not part of BlueOval SK, but is an SK Battery America plant (it is contractually obligated to supply both Ford and the VW plant in Chattanooga for the ID 4). BZ, if we assume a 50/50 split between Ford and VW, how many Lightnings would 10.75 GWh support? Each of the plants to be built by BlueOval SK (1 at Blue Oval City and 2 in Kentucky) will have a capacity of 43 GWh, so in total Ford will have 129 GWh plus the estimated 10.75 GWh from Georgia. Is it possible that the Kentucky location was chosen to be central to OAC, Michigan, Louisville (obviously), Chicago, Missouri, and perhaps even Mexico? Or might Ford be planning another announcement for an additional battery plant? Or - when do they announce a plant in Europe? Or will they? I would be surprised if Ford did not announce another battery plant in the upper Midwest. Remember OAC has to getbatteries prom someplace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Footballfan said: I would be surprised if Ford did not announce another battery plant in the upper Midwest. Remember OAC has to getbatteries prom someplace. Canadian government in negotiation with ford for battery plant at or in proximity of OAC. Who knows if that will even happen. I’m sure the UAW will have their say in the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) More battery plants will come no doubt. SK has a battery plant in Hungary so that's probably where Ford will get its batteries from in Europe in the short term (2023 Puma or Fiesta EV). My guess is Ford will probably announce a BOC type project with SK in Europe soon that will supply the 2025/26 models (Kuga EV, Focus replacement) OAC is supposed to make MEB in 2025 so Ford has maybe 6 months before it needs to decide how to source batteries for this plant. Edited December 16, 2021 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: Canadian government in negotiation with ford for battery plant at or in proximity of OAC. Who knows if that will even happen. I’m sure the UAW will have their say in the matter. I was thinking something similar earlier about the possibility of Ford doing a Canadian battery plant to supply OAC, but the UAW won't have anything to say about it. Edited December 16, 2021 by ice-capades typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 50 minutes ago, ice-capades said: I was thinking something similar earlier about the possibility of Ford doing a Canadian battery plant to supply OAC, but the UAW won't have anything to say about it. Yes ultimately it’s up to Farley and crew where they allocate products in the end. This whole Joe Biden made in the USA union made tax credit situation has to get solved. Either outside governments somehow match this legislation or it doesn’t pass at all. The Mach-e isn’t made in the USA will the tax credit affect sales if passed??? I get it it doesn’t come into affect til 2027 but I work at OAC so it’s concerning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 30 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: Yes ultimately it’s up to Farley and crew where they allocate products in the end. This whole Joe Biden made in the USA union made tax credit situation has to get solved. Either outside governments somehow match this legislation or it doesn’t pass at all. The Mach-e isn’t made in the USA will the tax credit affect sales if passed??? I get it it doesn’t come into affect til 2027 but I work at OAC so it’s concerning. We have another election before then, so its very possible that it doesn't happen or changes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 42 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: We have another election before then, so its very possible that it doesn't happen or changes. I totally agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.