Ford Mondeo released

[akirby]

Any resources that could go towards a performance sedan are allocated to BEVs.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Any resources that could go towards a performance sedan are allocated to BEVs.

 

Maybe Ford could combine the 2 and create a BEV performance sedan. ?

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, ehaase said:

Cadillac's Alpha platform RWD sport sedans have been flops, and I would prefer Ford not bother with this declining segment in North America.

 

Those 2 sedans, CT4 and CT5, are among only a handful of sedan models from U.S. domestic automakers that have survived in the U.S market as of the 2022 model year (Chevy Malibu, Tesla Model 3, Tesla Model S, and Lucid Air are the others). 

 

However, ICE vehicles in general are now in terminal decline, and Ford is now "all in" with BEV. That's why it's practically guaranteed that if Ford adds new sedans to its U.S./Canada/Mexico vehicle lineup in the next few years, they will be BEV. 

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

No one is talking about bringing back a full lineup of Ford sedans. My Escape is probably closer to a sedan than a CUV with its lower profile and resulting higher fuel mileage. Basically a Focus Hatchback slightly raised. The possibility of a Fusion Active has been there last couple years and basically be Ford's one sedan offering. A performance based 4 door sport sedan would be Lincoln's using Mustang platform. And Ford should still bring the Puma over here that looks like a smaller, cuter Escape.

Always thought the puma would be a great product to replace the EcoSport with. That's one of the only weak vehicles in Ford's lineup at the moment imo. But it would apparently be too expensive to bring that here, and even in Europe, I believe the puma is quite expensive. The EcoSport needs to go ASAP, but we haven't heard about a replacement coming in the near future. There was a really cool looking suv front end that was leaked a few years ago that some thought was the new EcoSport. But nothing ever came of that.

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

No one is talking about bringing back a full lineup of Ford sedans. My Escape is probably closer to a sedan than a CUV with its lower profile and resulting higher fuel mileage. Basically a Focus Hatchback slightly raised. The possibility of a Fusion Active has been there last couple years and basically be Ford's one sedan offering. A performance based 4 door sport sedan would be Lincoln's using Mustang platform. And Ford should still bring the Puma over here that looks like a smaller, cuter Escape. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/npthKxHjX6jKtY3H8

 

That's the leaked image I'm talking about. Not sure what happened to this product, if it's still in development, or if it was killed off. Looked very promising based on what we could see, one of ford's more attractive front end designs imo. Hope they still plan to reveal whatever this is, and that it comes here, because that looks great. 

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Those 2 sedans, CT4 and CT5, are among only a handful of sedan models from U.S. domestic automakers that have survived in the U.S market as of the 2022 model year (Chevy Malibu, Tesla Model 3, Tesla Model S, and Lucid Air are the others). 

 

However, ICE vehicles in general are now in terminal decline, and Ford is now "all in" with BEV. That's why it's practically guaranteed that if Ford adds new sedans to its U.S./Canada/Mexico vehicle lineup in the next few years, they will be BEV. 

 

I think you mean "electrified" new or redesigned vehicles. So far, all new or redesigned Ford vehicles have electrified versions. Ford is covering all bases so that customers can pick what they want. Expedition and probably Super Duty are the ones left out so far other than Edge.

 

Toyota, Ford, and Hyundai/Kia seem to have it figured out. Millions want a BEV only, but many more millions just want a more fuel efficient, affordable vehicle, more green vehicle that uses the present infrastructure.

 

Meanwhile, the transition to full electric, hydrogen combustion engine, and synthetic fuels only will take a long time.

 

 

[bzcat]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

https://images.app.goo.gl/npthKxHjX6jKtY3H8

 

That's the leaked image I'm talking about. Not sure what happened to this product, if it's still in development, or if it was killed off. Looked very promising based on what we could see, one of ford's more attractive front end designs imo. Hope they still plan to reveal whatever this is, and that it comes here, because that looks great. 

 

That's the rebadged Mahindra CUV which was cancelled just a few weeks short of the official debut.

 

 

[rmc523]

6 hours ago, ehaase said:

Cadillac's Alpha platform RWD sport sedans have been flops, and I would prefer Ford not bother with this declining segment in North America. It will be interesting to see how Dodge Charger does when the new model with electrification debuts in two years 

 

It needs to be bolder/more brashly American than the "me too" Cadillac sedans.

 

6 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

No one is talking about bringing back a full lineup of Ford sedans. My Escape is probably closer to a sedan than a CUV with its lower profile and resulting higher fuel mileage. Basically a Focus Hatchback slightly raised. The possibility of a Fusion Active has been there last couple years and basically be Ford's one sedan offering. A performance based 4 door sport sedan would be Lincoln's using Mustang platform. And Ford should still bring the Puma over here that looks like a smaller, cuter Escape. 

 

Agreed.

 

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Any resources that could go towards a performance sedan are allocated to BEVs.

 

But they can make a performance BEV sedan.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

It needs to be bolder/more brashly American than the "me too" Cadillac sedans.

While there may be issues with design/styling of the CT4 &CT5  that could be improved, the outcome most likely wouldn’t change the level of sales. It’s the same problem as introducing the new Mondeo as a Taurus, it’s a great vehicle but so much of the market has moved on to utilities. I love it but even I know that having a much better Edge replacement is preferable to a new sedan.

 

 

Quote

 

Agreed.

I would sooner see Ford advance the Maverick Utility than perhaps importing the Focus Active, more jobs for Louisville would be a good selling point…

 

Quote

But they can make a performance BEV sedan.

Exactly, it’s unfortunate that Ford didn’t codevelop a compact BEV sedan with the MME as a Tesla 3 competitor.

Edited April 30, 2022 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

19 hours ago, rmc523 said:

But they can make a performance BEV sedan.

This, ford is benchmarking multiple ev performance sedans. It's possible they just want to test out competitors evs, but in theory, you usually would want the vehicles you're benchmarking to be similar to a product you're developing. 

[jpd80]

11 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

This, ford is benchmarking multiple ev performance sedans. It's possible they just want to test out competitors evs, but in theory, you usually would want the vehicles you're benchmarking to be similar to a product you're developing. 

It’s kinda frustrating at the moment as there’s so many BEVS that Ford could develop but prioritising are basically right. Food for thought,  the new C2 Mondeo reworked with either GE or GE2 electrical chassis would be an awesome Taurus /Lincoln sedan but how many actual buyers would choose those over the already developed BEV Explorer/Aviator……it would be lovely if Ford could find a way to do all four but something tells me that the cars would just drag down sales from the utilities.

[rmc523]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It’s kinda frustrating at the moment as there’s so many BEVS that Ford could develop but prioritising are basically right. Food for thought,  the new C2 Mondeo reworked with either GE or GE2 electrical chassis would be an awesome Taurus /Lincoln sedan but how many actual buyers would choose those over the already developed BEV Explorer/Aviator……it would be lovely if Ford could find a way to do all four but something tells me that the cars would just drag down sales from the utilities.

 

To be fair, the Model 3 and S do show that there is a market for BEV sedans (ignoring the ICE sedan market), but your point of the potential siphoning of sales is valid.  On the flip side, there's the argument of picking up customers that don't want a utility at all and wouldn't have bought a product from you.  The question is how many of those there are.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

To be fair, the Model 3 and S do show that there is a market for BEV sedans (ignoring the ICE sedan market), but your point of the potential siphoning of sales is valid.  On the flip side, there's the argument of picking up customers that don't want a utility at all and wouldn't have bought a product from you.  The question is how many of those there are.

Again it comes down to priorities.  You don’t build a sedan instead of a utility but if there is capacity available it would be a nice add-on, especially if there is t a lot of competition.

[DeluxeStang]

13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It’s kinda frustrating at the moment as there’s so many BEVS that Ford could develop but prioritising are basically right. Food for thought,  the new C2 Mondeo reworked with either GE or GE2 electrical chassis would be an awesome Taurus /Lincoln sedan but how many actual buyers would choose those over the already developed BEV Explorer/Aviator……it would be lovely if Ford could find a way to do all four but something tells me that the cars would just drag down sales from the utilities.

I've thought about this as well, it does present an interesting dilemma. As crossovers/vans/trucks begin to develop more car like qualities, it makes it harder to justify purchasing a sedan or hatchback. It used to be that cars were more economical, and more refined than trucks and SUVs. Fast-forward to today, and the maverick is more fuel efficient than most economy cars, and our explorer feels more refined and comfortable than most of the newer sedans I've been in. Sedans and hatchbacks need to take a new approach to justify their existence, they need to offer things that trucks or crossovers can't match. Design and driving dynamics. If they wanted to, designers could create some truly gorgeous vehicles with designs far more elegant and sporty looking than your conventional crossover. Lean into the performance as well, with their lower center of gravity and lighter weight, you can make some truly killer performance sedans, we've already seen that. Sedans need to stop being focused on value and utility, they can't match crossovers in these areas, and they never will be able to again. Trying to focus on making a cheap sedan would just lead an yet another unprofitable product. Instead, create sedans that make a statement, that sell themselves on the experiences they can provide, rather than trying to be cheap or practical.

[silvrsvt]

28 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Sedans need to stop being focused on value and utility, they can't match crossovers in these areas, and they never will be able to again. Trying to focus on making a cheap sedan would just lead an yet another unprofitable product. Instead, create sedans that make a statement, that sell themselves on the experiences they can provide, rather than trying to be cheap or practical.

Sedans where forced on the market by the big three after WW2, they were not that practical and station wagons where the “practical” way to go. Also figure in that cars didn’t last nearly as long as they do now and you have what the market is “demanding”- larger vehicle that gets decent MPGs with a good sized interior that acts like a Swiss Army knife. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

I've thought about this as well, it does present an interesting dilemma. As crossovers/vans/trucks begin to develop more car like qualities, it makes it harder to justify purchasing a sedan or hatchback. It used to be that cars were more economical, and more refined than trucks and SUVs. Fast-forward to today, and the maverick is more fuel efficient than most economy cars, and our explorer feels more refined and comfortable than most of the newer sedans I've been in. Sedans and hatchbacks need to take a new approach to justify their existence, they need to offer things that trucks or crossovers can't match. Design and driving dynamics. If they wanted to, designers could create some truly gorgeous vehicles with designs far more elegant and sporty looking than your conventional crossover. Lean into the performance as well, with their lower center of gravity and lighter weight, you can make some truly killer performance sedans, we've already seen that. Sedans need to stop being focused on value and utility, they can't match crossovers in these areas, and they never will be able to again. Trying to focus on making a cheap sedan would just lead an yet another unprofitable product. Instead, create sedans that make a statement, that sell themselves on the experiences they can provide, rather than trying to be cheap or practical.

Well said.  Trucks and SUVs used to be rough and thirsty and handled like boats.

 

Sedans provide better handling but only a tiny fraction of people care about that nowadays.

 

Our Nautilus is comfortable like a car, sits higher so it’s easier to get in and out, does 0-60 in 7 seconds and gets 26 mpg and carries far more cargo than a sedan.  For 95% of buyers the only advantage of a sedan is it’s cheaper.  Thus all the Fiesta and Focus sedans.

[DeluxeStang]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Well said.  Trucks and SUVs used to be rough and thirsty and handled like boats.

 

Sedans provide better handling but only a tiny fraction of people care about that nowadays.

 

Our Nautilus is comfortable like a car, sits higher so it’s easier to get in and out, does 0-60 in 7 seconds and gets 26 mpg and carries far more cargo than a sedan.  For 95% of buyers the only advantage of a sedan is it’s cheaper.  Thus all the Fiesta and Focus sedans.

Exactly, and going down the cheap sedan route as previously mentioned just leads to brands discounting sedans more and more in a bid to outsell one another. Which is why I think if Ford was going to bring sedans back, they should look into doing something like a model 3, or Kia stinger rival. Something that's starting in that upper 30s/lower 40s price point that basically sells itself without the need for a ton of inventives.

[DeluxeStang]

6 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Sedans where forced on the market by the big three after WW2, they were not that practical and station wagons where the “practical” way to go. Also figure in that cars didn’t last nearly as long as they do now and you have what the market is “demanding”- larger vehicle that gets decent MPGs with a good sized interior that acts like a Swiss Army knife. 

Definitely, as you mentioned, cars are lasting longer now, people are holding in their cars longer, and paying more for them. That leads to a lot of consumers wanting their cars to perform well in a wide array of circumstances. A young adult in their 20s wants to know that the new car they buy will provide a lot of value and utility, and be easily adaptable to changing needs.m for years to come. A single person can easily buy a new escape with the comfort of knowing that if they do decide to have kids in a few years, it can handle it. That same level of assurance isn't there with something like a two door fiesta hatchback, making the prospect of purchasing compact hatchbacks and sedans less appealing to a growing number of buyers.

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Definitely, as you mentioned, cars are lasting longer now, people are holding in their cars longer, and paying more for them. That leads to a lot of consumers wanting their cars to perform well in a wide array of circumstances. A young adult in their 20s wants to know that the new car they buy will provide a lot of value and utility, and be easily adaptable to changing needs.m for years to come. A single person can easily buy a new escape with the comfort of knowing that if they do decide to have kids in a few years, it can handle it. That same level of assurance isn't there with something like a two door fiesta hatchback, making the prospect of purchasing compact hatchbacks and sedans less appealing to a growing number of buyers.

Fiesta and Focus hatchback come with four doors and the rear hatch, that’s why they were so popular in Europe. Puma is gaining ground in Europe as people discover how well its packaged.

Edited May 2, 2022 by jpd80