Ford July 2023 Sales - Up 5.9% overall

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

It’s still early in the process so I’m not in panic mode yet. Let’s hope the sales trend up going forward.  Thanks for the graphic.

I wonder if Ford has passed the golden honeymoon period with its current BEVs, they’ve basically squandered the opportunity by not being able to build to the initial demand. So now in a cooling economy, the buyer wants specific features like long range or they just won’t buy… current total 16,000 Mach E inventory and I bet only a third of them have the desirable long range battery.

 

As BEV buyers go, you’d have to really want a Mach E to choose it over the more readily available Tesla Y.

 

On a positive note, F Series sales above 68,000 last month is a big positive with 170,000 inventory.

All good figures from Bronco, Bronco Sport, Explorer/Aviator sales down due to issues mentioned by others earlier in the thread. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by jpd80

[Bob Rosadini]

16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Correct that’s what the common knowledge is, deductive counts between certain lists for other sources helps the process but I cannot afford the annual subscription anymore…

 

 

as far as I know the SD cab chassis units are built a Ohio

thx JP

[Rick73]

13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

As BEV buyers go, you’d have to really want a Mach E to choose it over the more readily available Tesla Y.

Lightning will soon face new competition from Chevy Silverado EV and Tesla Cybertruck.  It would be good to know what percentage of buyers choose Lightning (or other EVs) because they feel it saves them money, versus they want to be green to save the planet, versus they want to be first to own an unusual vehicle to draw attention to themselves (cool factor).  I suppose some buyers just like the vehicle better, but I expect that’s a small percentage.  I’m sure a combination of things influence vehicle choices, but in case of BEVs, I would love to better understand the primary underlying reasons for choosing a BEV in the first place.  I only know two BEV owners so not a large-enough sample to know much other than they are both financially well off.

[silvrsvt]

14 hours ago, jpd80 said:

As BEV buyers go, you’d have to really want a Mach E to choose it over the more readily available Tesla Y.

 

Teslas aren't as easy as you make them to be-I know my Brother in law had to wait a couple months to get his and there was an opportunity to get one but he couldn't make it in time and had to wait another month to get it. This was at the height of the pandemic in 2021 with shortages, so might not be that way today, but its not exactly like the Mach E is really hard to get now. 

[Rick73]

This source says Cox Automotive data suggest BEV inventory is almost twice as high as ICE, so BEV sales are limited by lack of demand, not lack of vehicles. Obviously lack of demand applies to available choices which tend to be more expensive, so who knows what would happen with lower-cost BEVs.  Lack of demand for higher-cost BEVs may explain why GM won’t halt relatively-inexpensive Chevy Bolt production as previously announced.

 

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rivals-rising-inventory-issue-explained/

[silvrsvt]

32 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

This source says Cox Automotive data suggest BEV inventory is almost twice as high as ICE, so BEV sales are limited by lack of demand, not lack of vehicles. Obviously lack of demand applies to available choices which tend to be more expensive, so who knows what would happen with lower-cost BEVs.  Lack of demand for higher-cost BEVs may explain why GM won’t halt relatively-inexpensive Chevy Bolt production as previously announced.

 

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rivals-rising-inventory-issue-explained/

 

I'm also sure the lack of free or cheap financing is hurting them too. 

[Joe771476]

On 8/3/2023 at 12:26 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

For those interested in Mediums

 

Ford Totals list Heavy truck at 8806 units

 

OAP Stats list heavy truck at 8350 and Super Duty at 13,457.   Again question where is F-600?  I'm thinking it is in the Super Duty count.

And when it comes to SD, OAP does 450 and 550 chassis and are those still built at KTP?

 

Yeah up 20%.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Teslas aren't as easy as you make them to be-I know my Brother in law had to wait a couple months to get his and there was an opportunity to get one but he couldn't make it in time and had to wait another month to get it. This was at the height of the pandemic in 2021 with shortages, so might not be that way today

 

It's not that way at all nowadays. OTD times for Model 3 are probably the fastest in the industry. I ordered a new Model 3 in June and the car arrived for pickup at the Tesla Store in Fort Worth 3 weeks later. Overall, the process was as smooth and "frictionless" as any retail purchase I've experienced and contrasts sharply with the multiple delays and poor communication from Ford my wife and I encountered with our Mustang Mach-E order (though to your point, the pandemic had a major impact on that vehicle order).

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

I suppose some buyers just like the vehicle better, but I expect that’s a small percentage.  

 

Actually, that is most likely the #1 reason people choose F-150 Lightning. It's by far the best version ever of one of the most popular and most recognizable vehicles in the country. Motor Trend summed it up best.

 

No joke: The Lightning is one of the most important pickup trucks—vehicles, really—in history. Forget early adopters, environmentalists, and technophiles. This truck has to convince construction workers, farmers, ranchers, surveyors, and everyday truck fans that electric pickups aren't just viable but desirable. That an EV truck not only can do the work but also do it better. It does that.

To get to brass tacks, the Lightning is the best-driving, best-riding, and best-handling F-150 you can buy.

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

I’m sure a combination of things influence vehicle choices, but in case of BEVs, I would love to better understand the primary underlying reasons for choosing a BEV in the first place. 

 

Here's info from a pickup truck prospective buyer survey that Cox Automotive did a couple years ago summarizing attributes that are most influential, along with survey participants' perceptions of F-150 Lightning, Hummer EV pickup, Rivian R1T, and Tesla Cybertruck for those attributes.

 

 

[Rick73]

4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

OTD times for Model 3 are probably the fastest in the industry. I ordered a new Model 3 in June and the car arrived for pickup at the Tesla Store in Fort Worth 3 weeks later.

Do you mind sharing which model 3 you ordered?  Also curious if it’s an additional BEV or replacement for S or Mach-E?

 

Anyway, I asked my son this morning why he had decided on a Tesla 3 and his reply was that he liked the simplicity and all the stuff it can do.  Cost savings didn’t play a significant part in decision, nor was saving the environment a high priority, though he likes that it’s cleaner.  Mostly he likes the way it drives, how quiet it is, lower service requirements, etc.  He really likes features like being able to cool the cabin from 125 to 70 F from his phone a few minutes before leaving the restaurant.  No doubt it’s a very nice car for the price.  He also said a friend of his just purchased a new one for approximately $30,000 after incentives and discounts.  Apparently Tesla want to move the older 3s prior to introducing the updated model 3.  At those prices it must be difficult for other manufacturers to compete.

[akirby]

33 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

 He really likes features like being able to cool the cabin from 125 to 70 F from his phone a few minutes before leaving the restaurant. 

Ford’s do that now with Fordpass.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

He really likes features like being able to cool the cabin from 125 to 70 F from his phone a few minutes before leaving the restaurant.

Thats not that special, My 2020 Fusion can do that…. 

[Rick73]

34 minutes ago, akirby said:

Ford’s do that now with Fordpass.

BEVs, or also hybrids and plug-ins?

 

In time I suppose new vehicles with various powertrain types could share some features buyers value most, making differences between electric- and ICE-powered less significant.  For me, ability to pre-cool a car would be OK but hardly necessary, so nothing I would pay much for.  Granted, cost to add that feature is minimal, so it would depend on manufacturer mark-up.

[Rick73]

22 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Thats not that special, My 2020 Fusion can do that…. 

Cool.  What type of Fusion?  By the way, I didn’t say it was special, just that it’s the kind of feature he likes.

[akirby]

26 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

BEVs, or also hybrids and plug-ins?

 

In time I suppose new vehicles with various powertrain types could share some features buyers value most, making differences between electric- and ICE-powered less significant.  For me, ability to pre-cool a car would be OK but hardly necessary, so nothing I would pay much for.  Granted, cost to add that feature is minimal, so it would depend on manufacturer mark-up.

All Fords that have Ford pass and all Lincolns.  Nothing to do with BEVs - it’s just extended range remote start.

[fuzzymoomoo]

30 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

 Cool.  What type of Fusion?

just a standard SE AWD. 

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Do you mind sharing which model 3 you ordered?  Also curious if it’s an additional BEV or replacement for S or Mach-E?

 

Sure thing Rick73, I got a base Model 3 Standard Range RWD with FSD in Midnight Silver Metallic. It replaced the '19 Model S that I had previously; I passed on the Model S to my older son who has been promoted to President of my family's business. My wife still has her Mustang Mach-E. As much as I enjoyed the Model S, I felt the time was right to "downsize".

 

[jpd80]

11 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Teslas aren't as easy as you make them to be-I know my Brother in law had to wait a couple months to get his and there was an opportunity to get one but he couldn't make it in time and had to wait another month to get it. This was at the height of the pandemic in 2021 with shortages, so might not be that way today, but its not exactly like the Mach E is really hard to get now. 

I don’t have July figures but Tesla US sales in June were just above 58,000, estimating 3 and Y being around 20,000 a piece. I mean, that’s the point with Tesla, most if not all their stock is built to customer orders.
Mach E inventory is now 16,000 with just over 3,000 sales last month……the build plan is off course.

Edited August 5, 2023 by jpd80

[Rick73]

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Sure thing Rick73, I got a base Model 3 Standard Range RWD with FSD in Midnight Silver Metallic.

Thanks rperez817, and congratulations.  I was curious about which battery size you went with, particularly with various discussions on battery capacity/range, and affect on BEV sales.  Your Standard Range RWD is probably more than most people need on a regular basis, in large part because of how efficient the Model 3 performs, and how fast it charges.  I was told this morning that 15 minutes of Supercharging provides about two hours of driving.  That’s not bad at all as long as chargers are along route and available for immediate use (i.e. — no waiting).  It will be interesting to see if updated Model 3 can charge significantly faster, because that would make long trips more convenient.

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Mach E inventory is now 16,000 with just over 3,000 sales last month……the build plan is off course.

 

For sure jpd80. That's very concerning as it indicates Ford nowadays is not adhering to the strategies that Jim Farley announced a couple years ago.

 

We're placing a greater emphasis on build-to-order sales bank, not just low stocks. We have learned that, yes, operating with fewer vehicles on lots is not only possible but it's better for customers, dealers and Ford. But we're also driving a significant increase in the number of customers configuring and ordering their vehicles online, so we have better visibility to real demand using an order bank.

[jpd80]

22 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

For sure jpd80. That's very concerning as it indicates Ford nowadays is not adhering to the strategies that Jim Farley announced a couple years ago.

A good plan when Ford had tons of enthusiastic reservations but I’m wondering if people got tired of waiting and bought something else or higher interests rates wrecked their plans, could explain why there’s a strange trim/battery mix at dealers..

Edited August 6, 2023 by jpd80

[Rangers09]

15 hours ago, Rick73 said:

BEVs, or also hybrids and plug-ins?

 

In time I suppose new vehicles with various powertrain types could share some features buyers value most, making differences between electric- and ICE-powered less significant.  For me, ability to pre-cool a car would be OK but hardly necessary, so nothing I would pay much for.  Granted, cost to add that feature is minimal, so it would depend on manufacturer mark-up.

 

With the PHEV, in addition to using the Fordpass, we can pre-heat/cool the car while it is charging. We can program it to be at a set temperature at a specified time each day. 

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, Rangers09 said:

 

With the PHEV, in addition to using the Fordpass, we can pre-heat/cool the car while it is charging. We can program it to be at a set temperature at a specified time each day. 

Can your PHEV keep the cabin cool or warm for extended period while parked and NOT plugged in?  In other words, will it allow using battery capacity to power air conditioner or heat for hours at a time?  Or overnight?

 

I don’t have much use for a PHEV to meet my driving needs (not a good fit), but have been waiting a long time for a PHEV van that can use battery to power A/C and heat, and also Pro Power Onboard.  When Farley mentioned new hybrids were on the way, and with unexpected capabilities by using batteries for other than driving, I was encouraged that maybe Ford would finally manufacture a plug-in hybrid Transit ideal for camping in remote locations off the grid.

 

The PHEV Transit Custom in Europe already has all the hardware in place, and would only need software to allow a camp mode if not already included.  Tesla allows a camp mode and doesn’t even have a way to recharge battery like a PHEV does.  If not Transit Custom, maybe the full-size Transit with PHEV drivetrain will become a reality in September for North America.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Can your PHEV keep the cabin cool or warm for extended period while parked and NOT plugged in?  In other words, will it allow using battery capacity to power air conditioner or heat for hours at a time?  

You just use the engine for that.