Ford November 2023 Sales

[Rangers09]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

The price difference for a 2024 Escape ST-Line is $3K from the Ecoboost to the Hybrid

 

The pricing differential shrinks as the price of the  vehicle goes up (ST-Line Select/Elite and Platinum) but that is because increased standard options, down to $1000 upcharge

 

 

 

anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence...

 

I'm using information per the calculations that are on fueleconomy.gov. You can go there and plug in your own numbers and see what you get and then share them here if you so inclined. 

 

I spend about $90 bucks a month in gas on Bronco (I have a short commute to work and go in two days a week, plus whatever driving I do on weekends), but I'm not claiming the Bronco is the most efficient thing ever either...but I actually get decent mileage for a Brick with a 300+ HP twin turbo 6...so I'm just an edge case and don't share the info. 

 

Why would I plug my numbers into a hypothetical govt website, which even uses a different size gallon from me, when I am more than capable of getting REAL facts from actually operating said vehicle. I can assure you I am more than capable of tracking and calculating the fuel cost/quantity and reading the mileage off the odometer. Being of an age that recalls calculators being invented, I can even do the calculations the old fashioned way.

 

You have alleged that I provided "Anecdotal" evidence, which generally means that it isn't necessarily true and/or reliable, as it may be based on personal opinion rather than facts or research. Let me review the information I posted:

 

 - Capital Cost - virtually no difference between the cost of the PHEV and an ICE equivalent. Our Govt provides rebates for BEV/PHEV, which are claimed by the selling dealer, therefore the purchaser does not pay the additional PHEV cost. This is FACT. Your government's website is totally incorrect when comparing capital cost in my country.

 

 - Total fuel cost - since we have only filled it up once in 6 months this one was easy, requiring me to read the single receipt. This is also FACT

 

 - Monthly fuel cost wasn't too challenging a calculation and is also FACT

 

 - 2019 Escape costs - with my Scottish upbringing, I am well aware of the 2019 Escape's operating costs, so the actual costs stated are FACT. Since we operated the 2019 similar to the current PHEV, I am comfortable that the fuel cost comparison is relevant.

 

Since you clearly don't know me, yeI you alleged I provided anecdotal information, I am be very interested to know which information I provided  you consider is NOT true or reliable.

 

 

[silvrsvt]

23 minutes ago, Rangers09 said:

 

Since you clearly don't know me, yeI you alleged I provided anecdotal information, I am be very interested to know which information I provided  you consider is NOT true or reliable.

 

So your missing the point and I obviously triggered you at the same time-the point is that the fueleconomy.gov website uses the EPA testing measures that are applicable to every vehicle they've tested.

 

You and I could have the same vehicle but never have the same fuel economy because of differences in driving style, terrain and a whole host of other reasons, which makes comparisons a moot point. 

 

But no you're far too concerned about what YOU get instead of considering that might not be what other people get or experience when it comes to using the same vehicle, just to win some sort of argument. 

[akirby]

Anecdotal doesn’t imply incorrect, it just means an extremely small sample size that may not be indicative of the larger universe.  

[Rangers09]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

Anecdotal doesn’t imply incorrect, it just means an extremely small sample size that may not be indicative of the larger universe.  

 

Not where I come from.

 

Definition of "Anecdotal" per the Cambridge Dictionary

 - Anecdotal information is not based on facts or careful study:

 

Definition of "Anecdotal" per the Oxford Dictionary

 -  not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

[Rangers09]

4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

So your missing the point and I obviously triggered you at the same time-the point is that the fueleconomy.gov website uses the EPA testing measures that are applicable to every vehicle they've tested.

 

You and I could have the same vehicle but never have the same fuel economy because of differences in driving style, terrain and a whole host of other reasons, which makes comparisons a moot point. 

 

But no you're far too concerned about what YOU get instead of considering that might not be what other people get or experience when it comes to using the same vehicle, just to win some sort of argument. 

 

As I have stated a number of times, I am not American and have zero interest using an American Govt website. If I'm looking for information, I'll use the Canadian or UK Govt websites.

 

I also thought this was an open discussion forum where we can freely discuss our experiences. Every time, I post my experiences, as an actual owner of a specific vehicle, you respond with generic stats from a foreign (to me) Govt agency. This time even alleging my information was not factual.  I am shocked that we can't post our personal experiences, without a Moderator disputing the facts of every posting.

 

Having also spent over 10 yrs as a Developer/Administrator/Moderator on a couple of RV'ing websites and forums, I find your conduct well below my expectations of these positions. For this reason, can one of the other Admin/Moderators please delete this account, as I will not be using it again

 

 

[silvrsvt]

51 minutes ago, Rangers09 said:

Having also spent over 10 yrs as a Developer/Administrator/Moderator on a couple of RV'ing websites and forums, I find your conduct well below my expectations of these positions. For this reason, can one of the other Admin/Moderators please delete this account, as I will not be using it again

 

Don't mix my personal options with being a moderator-I don't abuse my "power" as a moderator. I can freely engage and support my options as a I see fit and if you can't handle that, move on.

 

 

 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Rangers09 said:

 

Not where I come from.

 

Definition of "Anecdotal" per the Cambridge Dictionary

 - Anecdotal information is not based on facts or careful study:

 

Definition of "Anecdotal" per the Oxford Dictionary

 -  not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

You’re completely overreacting.  
 

 

 

 

[Rick73]

3 hours ago, Rangers09 said:

 

Having also spent over 10 yrs as a Developer/Administrator/Moderator on a couple of RV'ing websites and forums, I find your conduct well below my expectations of these positions. For this reason, can one of the other Admin/Moderators please delete this account, as I will not be using it again

Instead of quitting you could first try not responding at all to posts from members you find aggravating. 

[Rick73]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

You’re completely overreacting.  

Adult men don’t appreciate being talked down to, whether it’s a moderator or not.

 

And yes, the fact that some of you are moderators makes a difference.  It’s like arguing with a cop — doesn’t matter whether you are right or not, it won’t end well.  Put yourself in his place and maybe you’ll see things from a different perspective.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Adult men don’t appreciate being talked down to, whether it’s a moderator or not.

 

And yes, the fact that some of you are moderators makes a difference.  It’s like arguing with a cop — doesn’t matter whether you are right or not, it won’t end well.  Put yourself in his place and maybe you’ll see things from a different perspective 

 

 

When you give the very definition of anecdotal evidence then get mad when it’s called anecdotal evidence - which is simply a fact and is neither right nor wrong - that’s overreacting.

[Rick73]

On 12/14/2023 at 5:05 PM, jpd80 said:

Interest in hybrids seems to vary a bit depending on gas prices but for me outside of North America they are the future away from diesels in utilities at least…..you can always sell good fuel economy when it’s on the buyer’s radar

Not exactly what you are referring to, but data below for UK (if I recall correctly) shows how buying shifted by fuel/energy type from November 2022 to 2023.  It’s only one country and one month, but interesting to see that 10% hybrid market share gain came at expense of pretty much every other fuel/energy type.  Petrol was down 3%, BEVs 5%, diesel 1%, and “other” 1%.  Hybrid adoption appears relatively broad.  “Other” volume seems overstated by factor of 1,000 compared to the other categories, maybe shown that way because number is so small.  I would guess that may include other fuels like hydrogen, natural gas, etc.  Whatever “other” represents, number dropped by 2/3 suggesting to me less experimenting with alternate concepts.
 

[silvrsvt]

8 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Adult men don’t appreciate being talked down to, whether it’s a moderator or not.

 

And yes, the fact that some of you are moderators makes a difference.  It’s like arguing with a cop — doesn’t matter whether you are right or not, it won’t end well.  Put yourself in his place and maybe you’ll see things from a different perspective.

If you don’t break the rules nothing will happen to you. There’s been plenty of people here over the years that have had strong options about things that nothing happened to them till they brought it upon themselves. 
 

More often then not it’s self inflicted. 
 

Just see the saga of Rprez if you don’t believe me. 
 

I’ve been active on this site for almost 25 years between all of its forms. 

[akirby]

13 hours ago, Rangers09 said:

Every time, I post my experiences, as an actual owner of a specific vehicle, you respond with generic stats from a foreign (to me) Govt agency. This time even alleging my information was not factual.  I am shocked that we can't post our personal experiences, without a Moderator disputing the facts of every posting.

This totally depends on context.  If you’re just offering a personal observation that’s completely valid.  But if you’re using it to prove something about a larger universe it’s statistically irrelevant.   I can say my F150 gets 26 mpg but others may get 18.  That’s why you need controlled tests like the EPA where the conditions are as close to the same as possible and the results are consistent.  There is too much variation with individual results to be statistically valid.

[HotRunrGuy]

11 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Instead of quitting you could first try not responding at all to posts from members you find aggravating. 

 

I can't find it, but does this site allow users to "block" seeing posts from selected members?  I find that feature pretty useful on other forums.

 

HRG

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

I can't find it, but does this site allow users to "block" seeing posts from selected members?  I find that feature pretty useful on other forums.

 

HRG

There used to be one, I had several people blocked at one point before they either left on their own or got the banhammer. 

[Rick73]

50 minutes ago, akirby said:

This totally depends on context.  If you’re just offering a personal observation that’s completely valid.  But if you’re using it to prove something about a larger universe it’s statistically irrelevant.   I can say my F150 gets 26 mpg but others may get 18.  That’s why you need controlled tests like the EPA where the conditions are as close to the same as possible and the results are consistent.  There is too much variation with individual results to be statistically valid.

Valid point and completely true.  Context is 90% of issue above in my opinion, with problem starting way before arguing over definition of a word.  Often it is not necessarily what is stated, but how it is said.

 

Your point on sample size is 100% correct, and if we were all scientists or engineers designing cars it would matter, but this is a forum mostly for entertainment as far as I know.  From my perspective his data is just as significant or maybe more so than when Car and Driver test one car one time at 75 MPH to get “real-world highway MPG”.  The same applies when TFL Truck guys do one-time towing tests over a mountain pass.  It’s one test with one vehicle.  It’s definitely not scientific but both of these sources are often referenced on this forum without much negativity against the source itself.  I can see why the unnecessary harsh language can be taken personally because it sounds unprofessional.  And the fact that it’s often repeated in a rude and disrespectful tone doesn’t help.

[Chrisgb]

1 hour ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

I can't find it, but does this site allow users to "block" seeing posts from selected members?  I find that feature pretty useful on other forums.

 

HRG

Blocking is useful on more juvenile forums, where some members troll with misspelled expletives and extremely narrow views. Otherwise I can simply scroll past a member I frequently disagree with. Personally I don't on this site. I may disagree with a member's view on a topic but everyone here whom are at least semi regular contributors are able to get their viewpoint across without vulgar personal attacks, and criticisms are mostly on point IMO 

Peace out.

[2005Explorer]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:34 AM, rperez817 said:

 

Both Honda and Toyota are well known for being laggards among legacy automakers in the ongoing transition to BEV. GM President Mark Reuss explained the dilemma with hybrids nowadays.

 

 

 

 

GM, and Ford are much better off devoting their resources "on the answer that we all know is going to happen (BEV), and get there faster and better than anybody else". Or at least faster and better than legacy automakers from Japan, South Korea, and Europe.

You were also the person that wanted Ford to spin off it's Blue ICE operations into a new stand-alone company ASAP when they announced the whole Ford Blue and Model e division restructuring. Just imagine if Ford had went ahead with your plan right now. They'd be bankrupt. Heck they'll be bankrupt if they did that in the next few years. Heck not long ago you were calling for Ford to ax all ICE product in the next 2 to 3 years.

[2005Explorer]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:03 AM, LSchicago said:

 

Ford has always pushed the EB in everything. I never buy the EB though. Give me the 5.0 in the F150 or Mustang, and the Hybrid in the Maverick!

We have a 2022 Maverick XLT AWD FX4 in our family. We made a 700 mile round trip in it to see family for Thanksgiving and averaged right at 30 MPG over the whole trip. On the way down we drove 70-80 MPH highway speeds and averaged over 30 MPG. On the way, back we were forced to drive solid ice/snow roads home in slippery mode at 55 MPH or less. That was a stressful 350 miles! I was thankful for AWD and the smart drive controls.

 

I will say the optional Falken Wildpeak AT3W's were very helpful on the extremely bad roads. 

 

So although the Ecoboost won't return the kind of MPG the hybrid will it does have excellent performance and still does very well on fuel economy. My niece has a 2018 Escape with the 2.0 EcoBoost and I have no idea why, but the Maverick will beat it all day in fuel economy. Maybe the new Escape does better. I'm not sure.

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said:

You were also the person that wanted Ford to spin off it's Blue ICE operations into a new stand-alone company ASAP when they announced the whole Ford Blue and Model e division restructuring. Just imagine if Ford had went ahead with your plan right now. They'd be bankrupt. Heck they'll be bankrupt if they did that in the next few years. Heck not long ago you were calling for Ford to ax all ICE product in the next 2 to 3 years.

Your not going to get a reply back because they “self selected” to have themselves blocked from accessing this site. 

[Captainp4]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Your not going to get a reply back because they “self selected” to have themselves blocked from accessing this site. 

He gave himself the ban hammer?

[ice-capades]

6 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

I can't find it, but does this site allow users to "block" seeing posts from selected members?  I find that feature pretty useful on other forums.

 

HRG

 

https://blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/ignore/

 

 

You can also access it from your Member Profile Menu at the top right hand corner of every page.

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[HotRunrGuy]

17 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

https://blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/ignore/

 

 

You can also access it from your Member Profile Menu at the top right hand corner of every page.

 

 

 

Thanks!

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, Captainp4 said:

He gave himself the ban hammer?

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by silvrsvt

[Captainp4]

13 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

 

 

I enjoyed his contributions on the EV end, even if he got a bit of tunnel vision sometimes and was (I think) indirectly condescending with his over politeness. I always assumed he was on the spectrum (1000% not intended as an insult, really did like him)