Deanh Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 ok...Ill start this off as Ive been sitting back watching product changes along with new options coming to light thatb have me scratching my head. Everyone knows my thoughts on the BEV transit, released with a mere 100 mile range...who the hell thought THAT was a good idea? Then, when delivering several Superduties to a Municipality I was appauled at seeing approx 30 Nissan Frontier Supercab pickups rather than Rangers ( which WERE their staple until Ford discontinued them AND the 6 ft bed ) Then dropping the regular 6 cyl in the F150 along with Supercab long beds, 6 1/2 ft box on F150 Crews 4x4 only along with NO 2wd LARIATS. I could go on, but Ill let others chip in...but heres another, theres a Black roof option avail on the 2025 Explorers...doesnt involve any other features like wheels etc...yours for a mere $4900...............yep, Im sure demand will be through ( no pun intended ) through the roof.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 3 minutes ago, Deanh said: ok...Ill start this off as Ive been sitting back watching product changes along with new options coming to light thatb have me scratching my head. Everyone knows my thoughts on the BEV transit, released with a mere 100 mile range...who the hell thought THAT was a good idea? Then, when delivering several Superduties to a Municipality I was appauled at seeing approx 30 Nissan Frontier Supercab pickups rather than Rangers ( which WERE their staple until Ford discontinued them AND the 6 ft bed ) Then dropping the regular 6 cyl in the F150 along with Supercab long beds, 6 1/2 ft box on F150 Crews 4x4 only along with NO 2wd LARIATS. I could go on, but Ill let others chip in...but heres another, theres a Black roof option avail on the 2025 Explorers...doesnt involve any other features like wheels etc...yours for a mere $4900...............yep, Im sure demand will be through ( no pun intended ) through the roof.... The thought process with the transit EV was sizing the battery, and getting range requirements that were acceptable to most small businesses and delivery companies, while also retaining a reasonable price. Ford could have thrown a massive battery pack into the transit to get 400 miles of range, but then it would have costed 80 grand for a delivery van, or something like that. The 130 miles or so of range in the EV transit is more than sufficient for most businesses's daily needs. Drive it, use up the range, recharge it during off hours and breaks, rinse and repeat. This obsession of asking for more than one needs is one of the main things driving up car prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 (edited) 50 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: The thought process with the transit EV was sizing the battery, and getting range requirements that were acceptable to most small businesses and delivery companies, while also retaining a reasonable price. Ford could have thrown a massive battery pack into the transit to get 400 miles of range, but then it would have costed 80 grand for a delivery van, or something like that. The 130 miles or so of range in the EV transit is more than sufficient for most businesses's daily needs. Drive it, use up the range, recharge it during off hours and breaks, rinse and repeat. This obsession of asking for more than one needs is one of the main things driving up car prices. sorry...that target audience you mentioned didnt buy them either..its so bad theres now a 15k incentive on them AFTER a massive MSRP price reduction, think that 25 k or so could have justified a bigger battery? .....badly thought out from the get go, not exactly sure ( although I heard AMAZON was consulted ) whos 'EXPERTISE" was utilized regarding that products necessities and requirements, but guess what, cant hide such a miserable failure??? ...200 miles should have been the minimum...MINIMUM. That 100 miles is also on a lowroof, add the high roof, turn on the A/C and load the van up...guess what...50 miles before anxiety persperation....if they had run the concept perhaps past individuals that deal with the clientel targeted ( ie the Dealer body ) Im quite sure 100 miles of range would have been universally laughed at. They completely blew it on this .........completely...that said I think their venture into BEVs has been an extremely valuable learning experience. Future product will be better though out I would think, especially if you talk to the right people... Edited May 15 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 ETransit was targeted at fleet businesses and Ford surveyed THEIR transit customers and 90% of them drove less than 75 miles per day. So they kept the costs down. My guess is like everything else price increases play the biggest role in low sales. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, akirby said: ETransit was targeted at fleet businesses and Ford surveyed THEIR transit customers and 90% of them drove less than 75 miles per day. So they kept the costs down. My guess is like everything else price increases play the biggest role in low sales. Exactly, I get where OP is coming from, there are use cases and statistical outliers that fall outside of the average demands of fleets. But you're never gonna please everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 The 2024 E-Transit has a larger battery increasing its range to 159 miles. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60162858/2024-ford-e-transit-more-range-faster-charging-details/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 (edited) 16 hours ago, akirby said: ETransit was targeted at fleet businesses and Ford surveyed THEIR transit customers and 90% of them drove less than 75 miles per day. So they kept the costs down. My guess is like everything else price increases play the biggest role in low sales. ..missing the point...I know EXACTLY who they targeted, ( Amazon had huge input ) and who they listened too for product input...not their finest moment....sales numbers speak for themselves....they F'ed up Edited May 16 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 12 hours ago, mackinaw said: The 2024 E-Transit has a larger battery increasing its range to 159 miles. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60162858/2024-ford-e-transit-more-range-faster-charging-details/ well re-visit sales numbers at Year end...better, but still not enough, and sincerely...I personally think the Full size Transit with electrification was a mistake as well, if its for around town, as quoted... a mid size would have been a significantly better all round product...even the TC would have filled the bill better, round town doesnt need ( at least 90% of the time ) the full sizes footprint or payload.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 38 minutes ago, Deanh said: well re-visit sales numbers at Year end...better, but still not enough, and sincerely...I personally think the Full size Transit with electrification was a mistake as well, if its for around town, as quoted... a mid size would have been a significantly better all round product...even the TC would have filled the bill better, round town doesnt need ( at least 90% of the time ) the full sizes footprint or payload.... You said the same thing about Mach-e which turned out to be a pricing issue not a product issue. Plus fleet sales are cyclical so I think it’s too early to pronounce it a dud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 (edited) 28 minutes ago, akirby said: You said the same thing about Mach-e which turned out to be a pricing issue not a product issue. Plus fleet sales are cyclical so I think it’s too early to pronounce it a dud. Mach E sales have improved since the price reduction...but I stand by what I stated initially...they STILL arent selling in significant numbers even given they are a more mainstream product, and interest has definitely dwindled....and thus nthey are now getting rebates and interest rates to bolster burgening sales. Again...contrary to your beliefs...its NOT just pricing, thats just a part of the puzzle...and BEV Transits do NOT sell to just fleet customers...dont understand what part of "they missed the mark BIG time ' you fail to understand...even Ford is raising their hands and stating that fact....I personally in over 30 years cant reacll a more mis-construed product. You load up a high roof to max payload youre lucky to get 40-50 miles without hills or AC on before panic sets in...tell me the market for that?....ugh...currently, a lot of Companies have woken up and are abandoning and attempting unloading them...and taking huge hits/ losses on resale IF they can get a buyer. Auction prices are less than 30-40% after 1 year of origional MSRP...think those clients will ever re-entertain purchasing another? Edited May 16 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 taliking about pricing...I now have Escapes knocking on the door of 50k!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Ford's pricing (much like most things these days) has gotten out of hand, AND they've been de-contenting (or keeping the same content) for the increased prices. Couple that with bizarre product decisions (Edge, etc), and it's kind of crazy. I know Ford changes their plans a lot, but let's get a good one together for a change lol. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 39 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Ford's pricing (much like most things these days) has gotten out of hand, AND they've been de-contenting (or keeping the same content) for the increased prices. Couple that with bizarre product decisions (Edge, etc), and it's kind of crazy. I know Ford changes their plans a lot, but let's get a good one together for a change lol. there just seems to be some very odd trains of thought coming from Corporate...50k for an Escape???? even if its plug in, seriously...I think one thing EVERYONE can agree on, theres limits, and the more expensive a unit is, the smaller the market.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 41 minutes ago, Deanh said: there just seems to be some very odd trains of thought coming from Corporate...50k for an Escape???? even if its plug in, seriously...I think one thing EVERYONE can agree on, theres limits, and the more expensive a unit is, the smaller the market.... I remember a few years ago when I was looking at Edge Sports at the time (pre-Bronco, which I wound up waiting for instead), and they topped out around $50k. Going back even further, in '08, I remember a loaded Flex and the Land Rover LR2 (Escape size) both cost around $43k.......guess which I ended up with lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, Deanh said: taliking about pricing...I now have Escapes knocking on the door of 50k!!!!!! Which is why consumers need to stop asking for shit they don't need. Everyone asked for Ford to bring the cheap, reliable truck back. The maverick came out, and everyone bitched about how the cheap truck had an interior with cheap materials, and how it didn't have all the latest tech. People don't want cheap cars, they want a 50k car that a brand can magically sell for 20k. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Going back to the original comment about Ford loosing a potential Ranger fleet order to Nissan, you have to remember that every low-margin Ranger fleet sale would mean one less high margin Bronco retail sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 43 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: Going back to the original comment about Ford loosing a potential Ranger fleet order to Nissan, you have to remember that every low-margin Ranger fleet sale would mean one less high margin Bronco retail sale. what Broncos...?...we dont have any., and few in the pipeline along with order delays...but understand where you are coming from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said: Which is why consumers need to stop asking for shit they don't need. Everyone asked for Ford to bring the cheap, reliable truck back. The maverick came out, and everyone bitched about how the cheap truck had an interior with cheap materials, and how it didn't have all the latest tech. People don't want cheap cars, they want a 50k car that a brand can magically sell for 20k. that said...we cant keep Mavericks in stock....people will always complain about something...its the happy customers you dont hear from.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Ford doesn’t want cheap Ranger fleet sales. If they did then they would bring back XL supercabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 54 minutes ago, Deanh said: what Broncos...?...we dont have any., and few in the pipeline along with order delays...but understand where you are coming from Cmon Dean - you ‘re ONE DEALER in a state that is completely different than the rest of the country. Ford is selling 8k Broncos and 1K E transits every month to somebody somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Handler Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 5 hours ago, rmc523 said: Ford's pricing (much like most things these days) has gotten out of hand, AND they've been de-contenting (or keeping the same content) for the increased prices. Couple that with bizarre product decisions (Edge, etc), and it's kind of crazy. I know Ford changes their plans a lot, but let's get a good one together for a change lol. I'm Mustang shopping right now and feel like slapping myself for not ordering a S550. The new one, while nice, is not much of an improvement IMO. $56k for a loaded GT Premium, $61k for the performance package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 (edited) 8 hours ago, rmc523 said: Going back even further, in '08, I remember a loaded Flex and the Land Rover LR2 (Escape size) both cost around $43k.......guess which I ended up with lol. For people bitching about pricing of things: A $9K Escort GT would cost about $25K in todays Money...so a Maverick, which has a bit more/better equipment. Edited May 17 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 13 hours ago, akirby said: Cmon Dean - you ‘re ONE DEALER in a state that is completely different than the rest of the country. Ford is selling 8k Broncos and 1K E transits every month to somebody somewhere. They're definitely selling the Broncos here. I'm seeing a lot more Broncos than Teslas, and this place is overrun with Teslas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 16 hours ago, rmc523 said: I remember a few years ago when I was looking at Edge Sports at the time (pre-Bronco, which I wound up waiting for instead), and they topped out around $50k. Going back even further, in '08, I remember a loaded Flex and the Land Rover LR2 (Escape size) both cost around $43k.......guess which I ended up with lol. I see a lot of these arguments, not just in automotive posts. What they leave out is that just factoring in average inflation since 2008 a $50k product then should go for just under $70k today. Inflation really is a bitch. See: https://tools.carboncollective.co/inflation/us/2008/100/#:~:text=%24100 in 2008 has the,was -4.56% per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 15 hours ago, Deanh said: what Broncos...?...we dont have any., and few in the pipeline along with order delays...but understand where you are coming from Maybe my dealer could send some over - they have a bunch, including a whole slew of Raptors - I think they've finally given in and are offering Raptors at sticker (which is still crazy pricing) - not sure if they're still putting markups on regular models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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