Biker16 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 https://www.theautopian.com/the-toyota-tundra-is-quickly-replacing-the-ram-1500-as-the-other-pickup/ Quote Ram 1500 Slips To 5th In Market Share Behind Toyota Tundra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 Yea, Central Indiana Toyota dealerships are raking in the dough selling Tundras and Tacomas to people who used to own a Ford, Mopar, or GM truck. The conquest/defection ratio chart confirms this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 I have noticed a ton of new Tundras. Thought maybe I was imagining it. it’s a nice truck and compared pretty well to the F-150 before I bought my 22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 Sales numbers for first half of 2024 are 31% growth for Tundra, 20% decline for Ram P/U. That's for 1500 and HD versions of Ram combined. Ram 1500 alone probably declined even more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 I’m not surprised by this. I’m seeing a ton of Tundras in my area. They are a decent looking truck and the interiors seem better than past Toyota efforts. This seems like a crisis for Ram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 I bet Ford gets a lot of Toyota conquests as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 4 minutes ago, akirby said: I bet Ford gets a lot of Toyota conquests as well. Agreed...show me a new single cab Tundra for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 11 hours ago, akirby said: I bet Ford gets a lot of Toyota conquests as well. Relatively speaking, it used to in 2021 and part of 2022 but not in early 2024 up to April. Look at the conquest/defection ratio chart above. It shows that in November and December 2021 Ford got more than 3 times as many conquests of Tundra customers as Toyota got conquests of F-Series customers. By March 2024, Toyota got almost 2.5 times as many conquests of F-Series customers as Ford got conquests of Tundra customers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 6 minutes ago, morgan20 said: Relatively speaking, it used to in 2021 and part of 2022 but not in early 2024 up to April. Look at the conquest/defection ratio chart above. It shows that in November and December 2021 Ford got more than 3 times as many conquests of Tundra customers as Toyota got conquests of F-Series customers. By March 2024, Toyota got almost 2.5 times as many conquests of F-Series customers as Ford got conquests of Tundra customers Its cyclical as new models or new features come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 Just now, akirby said: Its cyclical as new models or new features come out. Yea, I figured that but didn't Ram introduce its refreshed 2025 1500 pickup in March or April of this year? That's when the defection ratio of Ram owners to Tundra went up to almost 3x. The Mopar guys are in trouble if its updated truck is turning away more of its own customers than it's bringing in from competitors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 2 hours ago, morgan20 said: Yea, I figured that but didn't Ram introduce its refreshed 2025 1500 pickup in March or April of this year? That's when the defection ratio of Ram owners to Tundra went up to almost 3x. The Mopar guys are in trouble if its updated truck is turning away more of its own customers than it's bringing in from competitors Dropping the hemi probably hurt Ram more than anything. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 3 hours ago, morgan20 said: The Mopar guys are in trouble if its updated truck is turning away more of its own customers than it's bringing in from competitors Stellantis as a whole is really struggling from all the different news reports coming out-Jeep isn't doing that great either and their EU divisions are having a hard time. Their CEO seems to be in survival mode at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 11 hours ago, akirby said: Dropping the hemi probably hurt Ram more than anything. I’m sure it did (they tied their brand to it - “that think got a HEMI”?), but then they’re moving to a V6 only truck instead? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 1 hour ago, sullynd said: I’m sure it did (they tied their brand to it - “that think got a HEMI”?), but then they’re moving to a V6 only truck instead? Actually, the HEMI was replaced by a twin turbo straight six....still, not a HEMI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 1 hour ago, twintornados said: Actually, the HEMI was replaced by a twin turbo straight six....still, not a HEMI. They’re not leaving RAM for RAM, they’re leaving RAM for Toyota, which only offers a V6, not a straight six. Perhaps Stellantis should have used a hemispherical combustion chamber in the Hurricane engine. (Isn’t the Ford’s 6.2 a “Hurricane”?). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 (edited) 6 hours ago, sullynd said: They’re not leaving RAM for RAM, they’re leaving RAM for Toyota, which only offers a V6, not a straight six. Perhaps Stellantis should have used a hemispherical combustion chamber in the Hurricane engine. (Isn’t the Ford’s 6.2 a “Hurricane”?). Copy of the Toyota that has only a V6 - Yes, the 6.2L started to be known internally as the BOSS motor, but, later it was named the Hurricane motor which was then dropped due to Hurricane Katrina so it went out with no naming nomenclature. Edited September 22 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 Is Toyota chasing the sublean truck market now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 41 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Is Toyota chasing the sublean truck market now? What's the sublean truck market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 19 minutes ago, morgan20 said: What's the sublean truck market I think he meant subprime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 On 9/20/2024 at 1:02 PM, Biker16 said: https://www.theautopian.com/the-toyota-tundra-is-quickly-replacing-the-ram-1500-as-the-other-pickup/ Hmmm....maybe I need to add Tundra to my charts (annoyingly).....they've normally not been relevant enough. On 9/21/2024 at 7:06 PM, morgan20 said: Yea, I figured that but didn't Ram introduce its refreshed 2025 1500 pickup in March or April of this year? That's when the defection ratio of Ram owners to Tundra went up to almost 3x. The Mopar guys are in trouble if its updated truck is turning away more of its own customers than it's bringing in from competitors Remember also that they've finally dropped the classic model (old one), so that had to have affected sales too. Per that graphic, Ram has lost about 10% market share in a year and a half (the chart is only through April, though)....? That's crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 Also, it's not surprising to see a Tundra jump because it's the first time it's been fully redesigned since 2007 or 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 Important thing to remember is that Toyota finally dropped their gas hungry V8 for a modern TT V6. Sales should level out in the next couple of years for them as the newness wears off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 4 hours ago, Flying68 said: Important thing to remember is that Toyota finally dropped their gas hungry V8 for a modern TT V6. Sales should level out in the next couple of years for them as the newness wears off. So did Stellantis...but with a TT I-6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 18 hours ago, twintornados said: So did Stellantis...but with a TT I-6 I don't think Ram buyers were as excited about dropping a Hemi. Toyota buyers are much more likely to pay attention to MPG's and the old iForce 5.7L V-8 was horrible on fuel mileage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 On 9/23/2024 at 9:11 AM, rmc523 said: Also, it's not surprising to see a Tundra jump because it's the first time it's been fully redesigned since 2007 or 8. Based on their recent success, I’m not sure they will make that same mistake twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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