rmc523 Posted November 7 Author Share Posted November 7 22 minutes ago, akirby said: I thought Hermosillo could do 350k total on 3 shifts. 14 minutes ago, bzcat said: Maybe... Wikipedia says 300K but the source of the data seems to be from a 2007 report. If Ford can really do 350K then there is plenty of room for a 3rd product. I forgot they already went to 3 shifts last year. I think 300k was the original max, but I seem to remember there was an increase at some point back when Fusion/MKZ were selling a lot more.... 27 minutes ago, bzcat said: Maverick is on track to end the year over 150K in volume which is quite impressive. Now I'm wondering if Hermosillo has the room for the panel van... Ford would need to add a new shift (or lots of overtime) I think. Looks like the plant has 300K capacity (normally implying 2-shifts). Maverick 150K Bronco Sport 130K Panel van ~20K to start but could easily go to 50K which is what Transit Connect averaged The fact that Ford has multiple products at the plant also means they can shift the production mix as certain models age out. e.g. Bronco Sport could start to slide due to age so panel van can soak up the volume until next gen Bronco Sport comes out. I also feel that TC sales were somewhat limited due to skirting around the chicken tax (attempting to, anyway). How much bigger than the 50k we'd see, who knows. I know my company has 2 Promaster City vans (they're always in the shop), so a van of this size is useful for fleets, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 For all the good that’s been done with Maverick and Bronco Sport, Escape has been badly mishandled this product cycle, so it gladdened my heart to hear Ford has planned a new Escape……they need to do much better with the styling and hit their marks with buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 1 hour ago, bzcat said: Maybe... Wikipedia says 300K but the source of the data seems to be from a 2007 report. If Ford can really do 350K then there is plenty of room for a 3rd product. I forgot they already went to 3 shifts last year. I see a few sources that say it’s operating at 120% of its 300k capacity which would be 360k if that’s what it means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 15 minutes ago, jpd80 said: For all the good that’s been done with Maverick and Bronco Sport, Escape has been badly mishandled this product cycle, so it gladdened my heart to hear Ford has planned a new Escape……they need to do much better with the styling and hit their marks with buyers. I think they tried (and are still trying) to attract lost focus hatchback buyers, It’s not working. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 28 minutes ago, akirby said: I think they tried (and are still trying) to attract lost focus hatchback buyers, It’s not working. not when MSRPs can top 40k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 7 Author Share Posted November 7 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: For all the good that’s been done with Maverick and Bronco Sport, Escape has been badly mishandled this product cycle, so it gladdened my heart to hear Ford has planned a new Escape……they need to do much better with the styling and hit their marks with buyers. I think styling in that segment either needs to go one of two directions - more boxy/rugged (Bronco Sport), or more swoopy/sporty (Tuscon might fall under this).......Escape's design was too soft without being sporty and had the goofy looking grille.....couple that with a cheap interior vs. competitors, and the unfair (IMO) criticism of the 3-cyl EB motor in reviews, and it was a recipe for disaster. The refresh helped a lot on the front end design, and we've seen sales grow. For a next gen, they'll either need to go larger Bronco Sport adjacent (i.e. Maverick-like styling), or lean in fully to a sport look, and give room for BS to grow and/or add a "Max" version to cover that rugged buyer. The trick will be not cannibalizing themselves too much between it and BS (combined I think they're closer to Rav4/CR-V numbers, whereas Escape used to be at the top on its own... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 The C-segment CUV market is so big, the risk is not having enough products covering all the bases. We are a long ways away from Escape and Bronco Sport cannibalize each other in any meaningful way. Right now, most brands are fielding two entries (usually one slightly longer than the other) but a few already went to 3 models (e.g. Chevy, Mazda, Kia). I think as C-segment car market continue to shrink, more brands will start to add 3rd C-segment CUV offering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 5 hours ago, Oac98 said: I didn’t see that post, didn’t look in that thread. We all know BOC is gonna need multiple products to justify building it I know, I was messing with you, thus the 😝 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 When has Ford announced or what is the source of a rumor of a new Escape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: I know, I was messing with you, thus the 😝 lol I know, it’s all good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 31 minutes ago, ehaase said: When has Ford announced or what is the source of a rumor of a new Escape? Borg has mentioned it over on GM Inside news. It seems more and more apparent that an ICE Escape will need to be maintained given the lack of demand for EV’s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 12 hours ago, akirby said: I think they tried (and are still trying) to attract lost focus hatchback buyers, It’s not working. Exactly, nailed the problem. Ford tried to give up on cars but then made the Escape too much of a crossover. I wouldn’t mind Ford trying a Maverick SUV to differentiate from Bronco Sport. I know that the Maverick pickup and SUV would work in a lot of ROW markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 5 hours ago, Trader 10 said: Borg has mentioned it over on GM Inside news. It seems more and more apparent that an ICE Escape will need to be maintained given the lack of demand for EV’s. Yes but now that Dearborn is taking a more active control of Ford Europe, the Escape’s needs will be prioritised over the softer Kuga Crossover desired for European markets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 17 hours ago, akirby said: I think they tried (and are still trying) to attract lost focus hatchback buyers, It’s not working. Yea, a lot of those lost focus hatchback buyers are the kind of el cheapo customers that chase the best deal and aren't loyal to any brand. Maybe Ford should give up on attracting those buyers, they're not likely to bring Ford much moolah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 10 hours ago, Trader 10 said: Borg has mentioned it over on GM Inside news. It seems more and more apparent that an ICE Escape will need to be maintained given the lack of demand for EV’s. I think Borg was speculating, although I agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 8 Author Share Posted November 8 16 hours ago, bzcat said: The C-segment CUV market is so big, the risk is not having enough products covering all the bases. We are a long ways away from Escape and Bronco Sport cannibalize each other in any meaningful way. Right now, most brands are fielding two entries (usually one slightly longer than the other) but a few already went to 3 models (e.g. Chevy, Mazda, Kia). I think as C-segment car market continue to shrink, more brands will start to add 3rd C-segment CUV offering. That's part of why I don't have a problem with them having BS and Escape target different ends of the market styling wise, but they have to be willing to push the envelope a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 3 hours ago, ehaase said: I think Borg was speculating, although I agree with you. Oh no no - his opinions are based on inside info that’s never ever wrong….. 😂😂😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 3 hours ago, rmc523 said: That's part of why I don't have a problem with them having BS and Escape target different ends of the market styling wise, but they have to be willing to push the envelope a bit more. Not a bad strategy but in this case but I agree they need something slightly more aggressive. And I still think a longer hybrid BS would do great regardless of what they do with Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 3 hours ago, rmc523 said: That's part of why I don't have a problem with them having BS and Escape target different ends of the market styling wise, but they have to be willing to push the envelope a bit more. Here is my 5 point plan for Ford to win the C-segment in the next 10 years: 1. Next gen Equator Sport/Territory adopts Maverick styling so it becomes more or less a Maverick CUV. Reintroduce the Focus name plate on this model in markets like US and Australia as an ICE competitor against CX-30, Corolla Cross, HR-V, Seltos, Trailblazer, Encore GX, Taos, Compass etc. 2. Lean into Bronco Sport as the more off-road oriented entry. It is already one of the only 2 entries in the segment that is AWD only so time to double down on the Bronco-ness. The only thing Ford should not do is to make it more mainstream to chase volume. Make it a global model (add RHD). 3. For Escape/Kuga ICE, offer standard hybrid drivetrain and introduce a 2nd body style - a fastback coupe body to go with the traditional squareback wagon body it current has. 4. Add the Escape EV on CE1 platform to replace the VW MEB based Explorer and Capri. 5. Update Maverick to attract buyers switching out of sedans. Make it a global model (add RHD). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 I like your plans bzcat but just one thing, Equator Sport/Territory is interesting vehicle in that it’s wider and longer like Edge, but has the 107” wheelbase. Its exactly what I’ve been wanting Ford to do with Escape to separate it from Kuga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 13 hours ago, bzcat said: Here is my 5 point plan for Ford to win the C-segment in the next 10 years: 1. Next gen Equator Sport/Territory adopts Maverick styling so it becomes more or less a Maverick CUV. Reintroduce the Focus name plate on this model in markets like US and Australia as an ICE competitor against CX-30, Corolla Cross, HR-V, Seltos, Trailblazer, Encore GX, Taos, Compass etc. 2. Lean into Bronco Sport as the more off-road oriented entry. It is already one of the only 2 entries in the segment that is AWD only so time to double down on the Bronco-ness. The only thing Ford should not do is to make it more mainstream to chase volume. Make it a global model (add RHD). 3. For Escape/Kuga ICE, offer standard hybrid drivetrain and introduce a 2nd body style - a fastback coupe body to go with the traditional squareback wagon body it current has. 4. Add the Escape EV on CE1 platform to replace the VW MEB based Explorer and Capri. 5. Update Maverick to attract buyers switching out of sedans. Make it a global model (add RHD). And add Pro Power Onboard to the hybrids and EV drive trains. Ford still owns this killer feature and it will attract additional buyers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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