'24 November Sales

[DeluxeStang]

9 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Chevy is heavily promoting their EVs too- Small town dealer near me in rural Minnesota is offering a $25 gift certificate for taking a test drive and has a bunch in stock- Even two Hummer TVs!

Hummer makes the best TVs. Really good resolution 😉.

[akirby]

13 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

Actually not since the 2023 L.A. Auto Show.  Have they changed a lot since then?  I will admit the Lincolns had very nice interiors.

 

You know, even Genesis has a more extensive model lineup than Lincoln does these days.  And you won't find Genesis vehicles shoved into a corner of your local Hyundai store either.   

 

Lincoln has yet to fully recover from the PAG days when the marque was relegated to being not much more than fleet livery vehicles (Town Car and Navigator).  

As the owner of a 2000 Lincoln LS and a 2022 Nautilus I disagree 1000% on both points.  
 

We get pick up and drop off service from a dedicated Lincoln dealer and all 4 Lincolns have best in class design, features and materials.  They are lacking cars but that doesn’t discount the utilities they do offer.

[rmc523]

14 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

Actually not since the 2023 L.A. Auto Show.  Have they changed a lot since then?  I will admit the Lincolns had very nice interiors.

 

You know, even Genesis has a more extensive model lineup than Lincoln does these days.  And you won't find Genesis vehicles shoved into a corner of your local Hyundai store either.   

 

Lincoln has yet to fully recover from the PAG days when the marque was relegated to being not much more than fleet livery vehicles (Town Car and Navigator).  Jaguar and Aston-Martin got all the attention.  Remember when Mulullay wanted to drop Lincoln around 2014?  He later set the course for a Lincoln revival, but it seems 8 years later it hasn't made much progress. 

 

Yes....you will.

 

That said, they have been making an effort to build dedicated showrooms, but there are still a fair amounth of "Hyundai" Genesis dealers.

 

I haven't had a chance to fully dig into the numbers, but Lincoln has at least gained back to 100k on the year, and the last time they did that IIRC was when they had the sedans in the lineup, so there is growth.

I would advocate for additional models, though.

[morgan20]

22 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Actually not since the 2023 L.A. Auto Show.  Have they changed a lot since then?  I will admit the Lincolns had very nice interiors.

 

Nah, other than Nautilus which is the same now in China and the U.S. That model has a huge panoramic digital dashboard unlike anything else from Ford and won some best of the year award recently.

 

Other than that, it's the same 'ol same 'ol for Lincoln: very nice interiors but same model lineup, no EV, no sedans/coupes/roadsters, no sporty vehicles of any kind, no commitment from the big shots at Ford to build up and expand the Lincoln brand

Edited December 14, 2024 by morgan20

[morgan20]

8 hours ago, rmc523 said:

That said, they have been making an effort to build dedicated showrooms

 

Yea, the new standalone Genesis car dealerships are snazzy. They've been poppin' up all over Central Indiana. I got a free DC fast charge for my F-150 Lightning when I visited this one 😀

 

[morgan20]

21 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Chevy is heavily promoting their EVs too

 

Yea, they've been really good at it. Ford's head honcho has been so mesmerized by them Chinese EVs that he seems to have forgotten that GM is now beating Ford with EV in the U.S. 

 

Chevy Silverado EV and the GMC version have been gettin' a lot of attention and is now a big competitor to F-150 Lightning

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

Yea, they've been really good at it. Ford's head honcho has been so mesmerized by them Chinese EVs that he seems to have forgotten that GM is now beating Ford with EV in the U.S. 

 

Chevy Silverado EV and the GMC version have been gettin' a lot of attention and is now a big competitor to F-150 Lightning

Silverado EV was supposed to be better than Lightning two years ago,

I’m surprised  that it’s taken this long to get near Lightning sales….

 

Maybe having a starting price north of $70k doesn’t help……

 

Edited December 14, 2024 by jpd80

[morgan20]

8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Silverado EV was supposed to be better than Lightning two years ago,

I’m surprised  that it’s taken this long to get near Lightning sales….

 

GM had a lot of production problems at Factory Zero in 2023 and early 2024 that caused major delays getting trucks to customers. Now GM is gettin' into the groove with these trucks. They're planning to ramp up additional production of Silverado EV and the GMC version at a second plant in Michigan next year.

 

It's the opposite of what happened with F-150 Lightning. Ford hit the ground runnin' with F-150 Lightning in 2022, expanded the REVC plant in 2023, and had a good run until the middle part of this year. Now Lightning is losing out to the newer trucks from GM and Tesla. It's sad news for the REVC employees who are furloughed

[Rick73]

Video report by Tim Bartz of Long McArthur Ford gives reason for Maverick sales being way down in November.  He states they have 90 but can’t sell due to backup camera display freezing up on XL and XLT, leading to recall and stop sale.  He mentions 2025 will have different system so should not be affected by recall.  However, quality hold period means 2025 will not likely reach dealers in volume until January or February.  Regardless, 2024 will remain on lots according to Bartz.  Anyone here know more about this camera issue, or when it might get fixed?
 

https://youtu.be/wturiNEITVU

[jpd80]

On 12/14/2024 at 2:14 AM, akirby said:

As the owner of a 2000 Lincoln LS and a 2022 Nautilus I disagree 1000% on both points.  
 

We get pick up and drop off service from a dedicated Lincoln dealer and all 4 Lincolns have best in class design, features and materials.  They are lacking cars but that doesn’t discount the utilities they do offer.

This.

and to all those GM supporter who like comparing Lincoln to Buick,

try getting that kind of service from a Buick dealer….

[morgan20]

8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

try getting that kind of service from a Buick dealer….

 

The local Buick dealer in Martinsville, Indiana (Hobson) offers pick up and drop off service

 

Buick rates higher on dealer service than Lincoln even though Buick is supposedly mass market and Lincoln is supposedly premium. Lincoln dealer service ain't all that speshul

 

 

 

[rmc523]

What's the argument here?  Are you trying to say Buick is better than Lincoln?  Then go buy one if it's so fantastic...

[7Mary3]

19 hours ago, jpd80 said:

This.

and to all those GM supporter who like comparing Lincoln to Buick,

try getting that kind of service from a Buick dealer….

 

I knew that remark was going to generate a factual response about just how good Buick dealer service is these days.  And it did.  Nonetheless, I don't think Lincoln service is for the most part all that bad, particularly considering most all Lincoln service takes place at Ford dealers.  GM has been working on improving their aftersales experience for some time and it shows.  Ford is making a strong effort lately as well, but they have not been focusing on aftersales as long as GM has.  I am quite sure they will eventually catch up.    

[akirby]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I knew that remark was going to generate a factual response about just how good Buick dealer service is these days.  And it did.  Nonetheless, I don't think Lincoln service is for the most part all that bad, particularly considering most all Lincoln service takes place at Ford dealers.  GM has been working on improving their aftersales experience for some time and it shows.  Ford is making a strong effort lately as well, but they have not been focusing on aftersales as long as GM has.  I am quite sure they will eventually catch up.    

It totally depends on the individual dealership.  Mfrs have very little power to force good service.

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I knew that remark was going to generate a factual response about just how good Buick dealer service is these days.  And it did.  Nonetheless, I don't think Lincoln service is for the most part all that bad, particularly considering most all Lincoln service takes place at Ford dealers.  GM has been working on improving their aftersales experience for some time and it shows.  Ford is making a strong effort lately as well, but they have not been focusing on aftersales as long as GM has.  I am quite sure they will eventually catch up.    

LOL, I shoulda known that someone would come back like that too…

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by jpd80

[morgan20]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

It totally depends on the individual dealership.  Mfrs have very little power to force good service.

 

Yea, but the mfrs have the ability to set standards and to foster trust between them and the dealers. The latter area is where Ford is trying hard to improve. Last year Ford and Lincoln dealers had some of the lowest levels of trust with the mfr

 

[rmc523]

36 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

 

Yea, but the mfrs have the ability to set standards and to foster trust between them and the dealers. The latter area is where Ford is trying hard to improve. Last year Ford and Lincoln dealers had some of the lowest levels of trust with the mfr

 

 

I'd imagine a lot of that has to do with Ford's plan changing every 6 months.

[7Mary3]

13 hours ago, akirby said:

It totally depends on the individual dealership.  Mfrs have very little power to force good service.

 

More than you might think these days.  Incentivizing CSI, willingness to approve warranty claims and 'good will' repairs, etc..  It is still hard for the manufacturers to terminate really bad dealers.  Take a look at what's going on with Stellantis dealers these days.  Their CSI is down in the weeds due in no small part to Stellantis dragging their feet on warranty and not making parts available.  Manufacturers may be limited on what they can do to promote good service, but they sure can mess it up. 

[tbone]

16 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I knew that remark was going to generate a factual response about just how good Buick dealer service is these days.  And it did.  Nonetheless, I don't think Lincoln service is for the most part all that bad, particularly considering most all Lincoln service takes place at Ford dealers.  GM has been working on improving their aftersales experience for some time and it shows.  Ford is making a strong effort lately as well, but they have not been focusing on aftersales as long as GM has.  I am quite sure they will eventually catch up.    

I can’t tell you the last time I’ve been to a Ford dealer, with the exception of the few oil changes here and there.  My Ford dealers come and pick up my vehicle, leave a service loaner, and bring it back when everything’s resolved. I can’t think of anything much better than that.  That also includes when I buy new vehicles. They bring the paperwork to me, go over the vehicle in my driveway, and take my old vehicle with them.  The few exceptions have been when I have bought vehicles in the winter And want to use their facility for inspection and delivery. 

[tbone]

5 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

Yea, but the mfrs have the ability to set standards and to foster trust between them and the dealers. The latter area is where Ford is trying hard to improve. Last year Ford and Lincoln dealers had some of the lowest levels of trust with the mfr

 

I don’t blame them. I’m a long time Ford fan, and I don’t like a lot of things Ford has been doing within the last few years.

[akirby]

6 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

Yea, but the mfrs have the ability to set standards and to foster trust between them and the dealers. The latter area is where Ford is trying hard to improve. Last year Ford and Lincoln dealers had some of the lowest levels of trust with the mfr

 

Ford tries to squeeze dealers on warranty repair costs just like they squeeze suppliers in addition to all the false starts and botched product planning.  Not good for dealers.

 

OTOH when Ford has tried to enforce standards like blue oval certified or anything similar the dealers sue them and win thanks to outdated franchise laws.

[jpd80]

On 12/13/2024 at 4:05 PM, Rick73 said:

Thanks for information.  Starting at $34,995 is indeed a great price.  I wonder though if that’s profitable or if being subsidized by other GM business? 
 

Price is so low that it piqued my interest; motivating me to look up specs.  Car and Driver has review and reports all Equinox have same size battery, listed at 85 kWh.  Range at steady 75 MPH is 260 miles, which is also pretty good at that speed.  However, vehicle is heavy at near 5,000 pounds and uses a lot of electricity per mile.  Based on size and battery capacity, it’s hard to imagine GM can sell at $34,995 and still make a profit.  It’s possible though since battery should cost around $10k, and rest of vehicle is decontented versus 2024 per Car and Driver.

 

If that’s a profitable price for Equinox, imagine how low the new base Bolt replacement might be.

GM has really gone aggressive with that Equinox EV price but perhaps revisiting a promise to sell entry trim later on. Either way, who cares if it’s profitable, GM certainly doesn’t….i think it suits them to sell heaps as CAFE offset to keep them looking good 👍 

[GearheadGrrrl]

That's what I was suspecting- End of year EV and PHEV promotions by GM and Ford may be related to CAFE compliance?

[Rick73]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

GM has really gone aggressive with that Equinox EV price but perhaps revisiting a promise to sell entry trim later on. Either way, who cares if it’s profitable, GM certainly doesn’t….i think it suits them to sell heaps as CAFE offset to keep them looking good 👍 

I care, mostly because it’s not sustainable long term, so the practice of subsidizing EVs at expense of ICE and HEV is misleading the public with a false sense of true costs.  I feel it’s dishonest and deceptive practice if it misleads buyers into thinking EVs are closer to parity than they actually are.  When EVs are only 10% it’s one thing, with little impact on ICE and HEV, but at 50% for example, the costs of ICE and HEV would have to be much higher to subsidize a much greater number of EVs.

 

When average buyers see vehicles getting more and more expensive, do they realize a part of the increase is indirectly due to EVs?  I doubt many do.

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

I care, mostly because it’s not sustainable long term, so the practice of subsidizing EVs at expense of ICE and HEV is misleading the public with a false sense of true costs.  I feel it’s dishonest and deceptive practice if it misleads buyers into thinking EVs are closer to parity than they actually are.  When EVs are only 10% it’s one thing, with little impact on ICE and HEV, but at 50% for example, the costs of ICE and HEV would have to be much higher to subsidize a much greater number of EVs.

 

When average buyers see vehicles getting more and more expensive, do they realize a part of the increase is indirectly due to EVs?  I doubt many do.

So maybe the entry point model is barely break even but the real objective here is to up sell to mid and upper level models, convincing buyers that repayments are not that much more especially with better surrender values on leases…