The Ford Mustang Mach-E Handily Outsold The Gas Mustang In 2024

[Sherminator98]

Speaking of Mustang coupe sales

https://insideevs.com/news/746229/mustang-mach-e-sales-2024

[rmc523]

Hopefully Mustang sales rebound, but not a good sign on an all-new model

[DeluxeStang]

Mustang needs to shake things up. What if Ford offered a mustang sedan that had an actually practical backseat to appeal to that crowd, and then made the coupe a 2 seater? Push the a-pillar back slightly and/or increase the wheelbase. That would hopefully give you enough room to effectively make the mustang a front mid-engine setup, I was told the Ecoboost is almost behind the centerline of the front axle as is. 

 

This was, you can drastically improve the handling dynamics, make the mustang look sexier, and give the mustang some extra spice. Keep the 1960s inspired styling, but make it more exotic looking to an extent. 

[Rick73]

As did Maverick and Transit.  What’s the point of comparison, solely because they share Mustang name?  IMO it is nothing more than a biased EV site trying to highlight EV success, though both vehicles are completely different.  EV and Mach-E success is great, but direct sales comparison seems foolish to me.

[ehaase]

As a poster much smarter than I am said on another thread, Ford is probably content with the number of Mustangs it is now selling because of CAFE. Mustang is probably still only in production because it is such an iconic car for Ford, much more than the recently discontinued Camaro was for GM. 

[Sherminator98]

24 minutes ago, ehaase said:

As a poster much smarter than I am said on another thread, Ford is probably content with the number of Mustangs it is now selling because of CAFE. Mustang is probably still only in production because it is such an iconic car for Ford, much more than the recently discontinued Camaro was for GM. 

 

I'm also guessing it made no sense to keep the Camaro either because the new Vette had similar sales numbers to the Mustang this past year. 

 

Plus isn't the Mustang the Worlds best selling performance coupe anyways?

[morgan20]

5 hours ago, Rick73 said:

What’s the point of comparison, solely because they share Mustang name?

 

Yea, kinda. Mainly the comparison highlights the fact that Ford's big shots made the right decision to make Mach-E part of the Mustang family, and that the "it's not a real Mustang" naysayer crowd can be ignored

 

When the Ford Mustang Mach-E was first unveiled in late 2019, the traditional Mustang faithful—and even a lot of casual car fans—went apoplectic.

 

How, they wondered, could Ford turn an American icon of gas-powered performance into an electric car? And an electric crossover, at that? But while the "it's not a real Mustang" voices are still out there, they're now far less vocal than they used to be. The Mach-E quickly proved itself as a sharp everyday performer with excellent range and a growing list of advanced software features, so much so that it was often the second-best-selling EV in America behind the Tesla Model Y—no small feat.

[bzcat]

2 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

I'm also guessing it made no sense to keep the Camaro either because the new Vette had similar sales numbers to the Mustang this past year. 

 

Plus isn't the Mustang the Worlds best selling performance coupe anyways?

 

I'm guessing BMW sells more 4 series coupe and convertible than Ford sells Mustang but I bet the numbers are close. 

 

I think one way for Ford to keep the Mustang name relevant but at low volumes is to keep pushing the average MSRP higher and make people chase special performance edition / limited production variants. Basically what Porsche does with 911. Ford is kind of headed that way with GTD but I think there is an untapped opportunity to make Mustang variants that can be certified as EPA trucks which will partially solve the CAFE problem.

 

Mustang Rally - take the GT 5.0 add AWD and lift the suspension by 2". Re-certify this as a "truck" with EPA like Subaru did with Crosstrek and Outback since it should have enough ground clearance to qualify. Since it is a truck, it has lower CAFE target which means Ford can sell more of them. Think of it as a 911 Dakar competitor for 1/3 of the price.

 

Mustang Ranchero - hear me out... if Mustang Rally 5.0 is already certified as a "truck", how hard would it be to chop the roof off, yank out the back seat, install a bulkhead and a cargo bed where the backseat and the trunk used to be? 

 

These won't be huge sellers. Ford just need to make enough to keep the Mustang name alive. And more importantly keep Flat Rock in business. If Flat Rock is shut down, Mustang will go with it. Ford is not going to invest in another plant to build it. 

 

 

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

I'm also guessing it made no sense to keep the Camaro either because the new Vette had similar sales numbers to the Mustang this past year. 

 

Plus isn't the Mustang the Worlds best selling performance coupe anyways?

Ford AUS had 1,000 Dark Horse allocation, all sold out months ahead of delivery.

Small sales but this is an example of money in the bank for Ford.

[Sherminator98]

2 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

I'm guessing BMW sells more 4 series coupe and convertible than Ford sells Mustang but I bet the numbers are close. 

 

But that isn't really a sports car-that is just a coupe that is sporty?

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2024/03/27/mustang-is-americas-best-selling-sports-car--tops-globally-for-1.html?clickref=1101lA8GdrQI&fmccmp=flexoffers-aff-0accessories&utm_source=flexoffers&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=partnerizeaccessories

[Rick73]

14 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

Yea, kinda. Mainly the comparison highlights the fact that Ford's big shots made the right decision to make Mach-E part of the Mustang family, and that the "it's not a real Mustang" naysayer crowd can be ignored

 

When the Ford Mustang Mach-E was first unveiled in late 2019, the traditional Mustang faithful—and even a lot of casual car fans—went apoplectic.

 

How, they wondered, could Ford turn an American icon of gas-powered performance into an electric car? And an electric crossover, at that? But while the "it's not a real Mustang" voices are still out there, they're now far less vocal than they used to be. The Mach-E quickly proved itself as a sharp everyday performer with excellent range and a growing list of advanced software features, so much so that it was often the second-best-selling EV in America behind the Tesla Model Y—no small feat.

Comparison would be more meaningful to me if both cars were similar, like comparing BEV vs ICE Puma or any one of the BMWs offered as both BEV and ICE.  When comparing a 4-door SUV (which sell in high volume) to a 2-door sports car (which sell in very low volume), differences in vehicles themselves overshadow differences in powertrains.  And the comparison doesn’t address lack of profitability, which may only prove if you give stuff away someone out there will take it.

 

Agree with everything you said about Mach-E.  On the other hand don’t agree with article’s implied message that EVs are better than ICE because Mach-E SUV outsold a sports car.  BEVs may or may not be better, just saying this comparison means next to nothing.

[Sherminator98]

14 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

Yea, kinda. Mainly the comparison highlights the fact that Ford's big shots made the right decision to make Mach-E part of the Mustang family, and that the "it's not a real Mustang" naysayer crowd can be ignored

 

When the Ford Mustang Mach-E was first unveiled in late 2019, the traditional Mustang faithful—and even a lot of casual car fans—went apoplectic.

 

How, they wondered, could Ford turn an American icon of gas-powered performance into an electric car? And an electric crossover, at that? But while the "it's not a real Mustang" voices are still out there, they're now far less vocal than they used to be. The Mach-E quickly proved itself as a sharp everyday performer with excellent range and a growing list of advanced software features, so much so that it was often the second-best-selling EV in America behind the Tesla Model Y—no small feat.

 

Mustang "fans" are fickle-just look at all the hubbub whenever the Mustang changes generationally-normally coming from people who generally now own the "old" model 

 

Over the past 30-40 years the worst (IMO) update to the Mustang was the 1999-2004 Mustang-leaving the roofline, which clashed with the "new edge" styling the rest of the car got. Otherwise the Mustang has gone through several updates over the past 25 years that have improved the look and performance of the car. I know the current gen gets attacked because the sides passingly look like a camaro's flanks, but that car doesn't even exist anymore. 

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Mustang "fans" are fickle-just look at all the hubbub whenever the Mustang changes generationally-normally coming from people who generally now own the "old" model 

 

Over the past 30-40 years the worst (IMO) update to the Mustang was the 1999-2004 Mustang-leaving the roofline, which clashed with the "new edge" styling the rest of the car got. Otherwise the Mustang has gone through several updates over the past 25 years that have improved the look and performance of the car. I know the current gen gets attacked because the sides passingly look like a camaro's flanks, but that car doesn't even exist anymore. 

I'll be real, the s650 doesn't even really look like a Camaro, it just has really pronounced hips, which was a design feature of even the '65 stang, but especially the '67-70 designs. I heard someone say the s650 was the worst looking mustang in history, and I couldn't tell if they were high, a troll, or just stupid. 

 

Controversial opinion here, but from most angles imo, the s650 is just a better looking s550. I know that's gonna ruffle some feathers, but that's just my opinion. 

[rmc523]

16 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

I'm guessing BMW sells more 4 series coupe and convertible than Ford sells Mustang but I bet the numbers are close. 

 

I think one way for Ford to keep the Mustang name relevant but at low volumes is to keep pushing the average MSRP higher and make people chase special performance edition / limited production variants. Basically what Porsche does with 911. Ford is kind of headed that way with GTD but I think there is an untapped opportunity to make Mustang variants that can be certified as EPA trucks which will partially solve the CAFE problem.

 

Mustang Rally - take the GT 5.0 add AWD and lift the suspension by 2". Re-certify this as a "truck" with EPA like Subaru did with Crosstrek and Outback since it should have enough ground clearance to qualify. Since it is a truck, it has lower CAFE target which means Ford can sell more of them. Think of it as a 911 Dakar competitor for 1/3 of the price.

 

Mustang Ranchero - hear me out... if Mustang Rally 5.0 is already certified as a "truck", how hard would it be to chop the roof off, yank out the back seat, install a bulkhead and a cargo bed where the backseat and the trunk used to be? 

 

These won't be huge sellers. Ford just need to make enough to keep the Mustang name alive. And more importantly keep Flat Rock in business. If Flat Rock is shut down, Mustang will go with it. Ford is not going to invest in another plant to build it. 

 

 

 

BMW sold 42,608 units of 4-series this year vs. Mustang's 44,003........those 4-series numbers would also include the Gran Coupe, which is a 4-door/sportback kind of thing, which skews the numbers upwards.

[morgan20]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Comparison would be more meaningful to me if both cars were similar, like comparing BEV vs ICE Puma or any one of the BMWs offered as both BEV and ICE.  

Yea, I agree. Speaking of which, when is the electric Mustang coupe comin’ out? The Dodge boys are starting to get their electric pony car shipped to dealerships now

[Sherminator98]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

I'll be real, the s650 doesn't even really look like a Camaro, it just has really pronounced hips, which was a design feature of even the '65 stang, but especially the '67-70 designs. I heard someone say the s650 was the worst looking mustang in history, and I couldn't tell if they were high, a troll, or just stupid. 

 

Controversial opinion here, but from most angles imo, the s650 is just a better looking s550. I know that's gonna ruffle some feathers, but that's just my opinion. 

 

To be honest, the vast majority of comments like that are from the "unwashed masses" that also claimed that the Bronco was nothing more then a lifted Flex...LOL

IMO the best looking recent Mustang is the 2015MY. The S650 looks better then the S550 when it comes to the refreshed headlight design on it. 

[Sherminator98]

31 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

Yea, I agree. Speaking of which, when is the electric Mustang coupe comin’ out? The Dodge boys are starting to get their electric pony car shipped to dealerships now

 

Ford has stated that the ICE Mustang will survive till they can't make it anymore. 

 

Given how the market shakes out with EVs for the rest of the decade, I wouldn't expect one till early next decade. 

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, morgan20 said:

Yea, I agree. Speaking of which, when is the electric Mustang coupe comin’ out? The Dodge boys are starting to get their electric pony car shipped to dealerships now

Apparently there is no all electric mustang planned, I assume that means for the s650, seeing as the mach-e already exists. It would kinda be cool to see a CE1 smaller mustang coupe. Much like the original mustang which wasn't particularly fast, or fancy, but used a compact economy car platform to offer an attractive body style at a very affordable price, I wonder if CE1 will give Ford the chance to do that again. 

 

It's apparently been designed to be the most cost efficient EV platform in the planet, something that will be  cheap and easy to build long term. I can't help but wonder if that will unlock the door to the sorts of enthusiasts offerings that were never economically feasible with more complex and expensive ICE platforms. 

 

In a world where everyone is rushing to make EV crossovers, and trucks to a lesser extent, and racing each other to the bottom in terms of price, Ford doing something no-one else is even attempting, and having the market all to themselves, it's worth a shot.

 

Do something that no-one else can, or will do. I know for decades now the idea of the return of the small, affordable sports coupe has been nothing more than an enthusiasts pipe dream, but I can actually see the business case for it now if brands like Ford rely more heavily on widespread inexpensive platforms than they currently are. 

[Sherminator98]

8 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Do something that no-one else can, or will do. I know for decades now the idea of the return of the small, affordable sports coupe has been nothing more than an enthusiasts pipe dream, but I can actually see the business case for it now if brands like Ford rely more heavily on widespread inexpensive platforms than they currently are. 

 

That expectation is like expecting the Personal coupe or Vans to make a comeback in the market.

 

The Auto market is changing just like everything else-expecting things to work/sell the same way it did 20-30 years ago is folly

 

Just looking at the world the way it is now-a person is more likely to spend their 40K on a vehicle that is a swiss army knife like a Crossover or pickup truck, then a sedan, since that it where they think they'll get more bang for their buck. 

Performance really isn't an issue-when an Accord is pulling 1/4 mile times as fast or faster then a "muscle" car from the late 1960s, which people thought where dangerously fast for what they where of the era, I don't think that is it either. Even basic EVs have somewhat incredible performance due to the way electric motors work with Torque. 

Fuel economy is pretty much a non factor in saving money, once you hit that 20 MPG range, getting 30 MPG isn't going to save you nearly as much money. You might save $10 bucks a week in gas or so, but if your paying $500 a month on a car, that might be your last concern. 

 

What being said, I feel for automakers these days-the market isn't where it was at even 10 years ago and the future is really murky in what direction it will be going in the next 10. 

[DeluxeStang]

21 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

That expectation is like expecting the Personal coupe or Vans to make a comeback in the market.

 

The Auto market is changing just like everything else-expecting things to work/sell the same way it did 20-30 years ago is folly

 

Just looking at the world the way it is now-a person is more likely to spend their 40K on a vehicle that is a swiss army knife like a Crossover or pickup truck, then a sedan, since that it where they think they'll get more bang for their buck. 

Performance really isn't an issue-when an Accord is pulling 1/4 mile times as fast or faster then a "muscle" car from the late 1960s, which people thought where dangerously fast for what they where of the era, I don't think that is it either. Even basic EVs have somewhat incredible performance due to the way electric motors work with Torque. 

Fuel economy is pretty much a non factor in saving money, once you hit that 20 MPG range, getting 30 MPG isn't going to save you nearly as much money. You might save $10 bucks a week in gas or so, but if your paying $500 a month on a car, that might be your last concern. 

 

What being said, I feel for automakers these days-the market isn't where it was at even 10 years ago and the future is really murky in what direction it will be going in the next 10. 

What's old is new again. We saw the rise of the SUV, then the crossover, combining the SUV body style with a car like chassis. Now we're seeing crossovers that are basically just slightly lifted hatches. With EVs needing to rely heavily on areo, that's pushing them lower, and lower to the ground, and that trend seems like it's going to keep going. At some point, we're just gonna get back to cars, but them being called SUVs in order to sell. 

 

I understand where you're coming from, but from where I'm looking at it, we've almost come full circle. We aren't there yet, but it's looking more and more likely. Wagons used to be seen as boring, SUVs were the hot thing in the market. Now my generation is dreaming of owning wagons, begging more brands to bring them here, and SUVs are seen as generic, and undesirable by many in my age group. 

 

A lot of the time it seems like it's whatever your parents drove, you want something different. People who grew up in the back of wagons wanted vans, people who grew up in the back of vans wanted SUVs, now you're seeing a lot of people who grew up with suvs and want something different. 

Edited January 7 by DeluxeStang

[DeluxeStang]

15 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

That expectation is like expecting the Personal coupe or Vans to make a comeback in the market.

 

The Auto market is changing just like everything else-expecting things to work/sell the same way it did 20-30 years ago is folly

 

Just looking at the world the way it is now-a person is more likely to spend their 40K on a vehicle that is a swiss army knife like a Crossover or pickup truck, then a sedan, since that it where they think they'll get more bang for their buck. 

Performance really isn't an issue-when an Accord is pulling 1/4 mile times as fast or faster then a "muscle" car from the late 1960s, which people thought where dangerously fast for what they where of the era, I don't think that is it either. Even basic EVs have somewhat incredible performance due to the way electric motors work with Torque. 

Fuel economy is pretty much a non factor in saving money, once you hit that 20 MPG range, getting 30 MPG isn't going to save you nearly as much money. You might save $10 bucks a week in gas or so, but if your paying $500 a month on a car, that might be your last concern. 

 

What being said, I feel for automakers these days-the market isn't where it was at even 10 years ago and the future is really murky in what direction it will be going in the next 10. 

I understand the whole Swiss army thing, but it seems like CE1 is gonna usher in an era of new desirable small and affordable vehicles. I think people will be more willing to accept something less practical if it saves them a lot of money, and if it makes up for it by being desirable in other ways. My generation, and gen z love sedans and coupes man, and not just because they're cheap. Even as they're better off financially, they still pick the sedan a lot of the time. Someone who can afford a new Camry can afford a new bronco sport. Yet they buy the Camry. 

 

I'm not saying Ford should stop making trucks and SUVs, but their lineup is pretty saturated with them by this point, as is the market, at a time when Ford wants to avoid as much competition as possible. Maybe it's time for something new. 

[DeluxeStang]

27 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

That expectation is like expecting the Personal coupe or Vans to make a comeback in the market.

 

The Auto market is changing just like everything else-expecting things to work/sell the same way it did 20-30 years ago is folly

 

Just looking at the world the way it is now-a person is more likely to spend their 40K on a vehicle that is a swiss army knife like a Crossover or pickup truck, then a sedan, since that it where they think they'll get more bang for their buck. 

Performance really isn't an issue-when an Accord is pulling 1/4 mile times as fast or faster then a "muscle" car from the late 1960s, which people thought where dangerously fast for what they where of the era, I don't think that is it either. Even basic EVs have somewhat incredible performance due to the way electric motors work with Torque. 

Fuel economy is pretty much a non factor in saving money, once you hit that 20 MPG range, getting 30 MPG isn't going to save you nearly as much money. You might save $10 bucks a week in gas or so, but if your paying $500 a month on a car, that might be your last concern. 

 

What being said, I feel for automakers these days-the market isn't where it was at even 10 years ago and the future is really murky in what direction it will be going in the next 10. 

Is something like the compact and midsized crossover markets a lot bigger than the market for what I'm proposing? Without a doubt, but you're also competing with 20,30,40 competing products for market share, the price war from hell. 

 

I understand why you guys disagree, and that's ok, there isn't a huge market for coupes, I get it. But I'm also saying my generation is more receptive to that body style, and EVs, and great value for money. So I think if someone put all of those attributes together, there would be an audience for it. Furthermore, it would give your EVs a better reputation for being fun, and interesting, not just some bland jelly bean, a positive perception that would benefit your other EV offerings. 

[Sherminator98]

2 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I understand why you guys disagree, and that's ok, there isn't a huge market for coupes, I get it. But I'm also saying my generation is more receptive to that body style, and EVs, and great value for money. So I think if someone put all of those attributes together, there would be an audience for it. Furthermore, it would give your EVs a better reputation for being fun, and interesting, not just some bland jelly bean, a positive perception that would benefit your other EV offerings. 

 

But how much is this being clouded by your own personal biases? I'm not sure the data is out there to prove the point your trying to make.

 

Given how the market has been for almost 25 years and how the coupe market has constantly shrunk in the same time (along with sedans), it gives me lots of pause that something like an EV coupe would be good for the market and have a company make money off it. 

I guess I'm leaning on being really conservative because there's been lots of pie in the sky ideas from people over the years and well they never panned out.

Another example-the Kia Stinger-good product, RWD performance sedan, Dead after 5 years in production. 

[DeluxeStang]

11 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

But how much is this being clouded by your own personal biases? I'm not sure the data is out there to prove the point your trying to make.

 

Given how the market has been for almost 25 years and how the coupe market has constantly shrunk in the same time (along with sedans), it gives me lots of pause that something like an EV coupe would be good for the market and have a company make money off it. 

I guess I'm leaning on being really conservative because there's been lots of pie in the sky ideas from people over the years and well they never panned out.

Another example-the Kia Stinger-good product, RWD performance sedan, Dead after 5 years in production. 

I see where you're coming from, part of the issue with the stinger was the price, and the fact that Kia just wasn't at a point with their brand to be charging that much. Being a sedan when SUVs were really starting to explode in popularity definitely didn't help. 

 

But we're seeing shifts here man, for years, arguably decades, it was all about cars getting bigger, more expensive, more powerful. While I believe that will still hold true for some segments in the future, we're kinda seeing the resurgence of smaller, more affordable, and sensible vehicles. 

 

At a time when the mustang is getting more expensive, on the verge of losing its obtainable status for younger people, and with Ford already experimenting with multiple mustang body styles, it just feels like it's now or never. 

[ehaase]

20 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

 

I understand why you guys disagree, and that's ok, there isn't a huge market for coupes, I get it. But I'm also saying my generation is more receptive to that body style, and EVs, and great value for money. So I think if someone put all of those attributes together, there would be an audience for it. Furthermore, it would give your EVs a better reputation for being fun, and interesting, not just some bland jelly bean, a positive perception that would benefit your other EV offerings. 

Pony cars were big in the mid to late 60's, and now they are a niche. I was a teenager in the 70's and remember when personal luxury coupes were hot, and Oldsmobile sold 1 million cars per year with its biggest seller being the Cutlass Supreme. Now I can't think of a single personal luxury coupe being built, except maybe some high end Mercedes or BMW. I don't see coupes coming back at all.  I think sedans will diminish, with Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic being the only mainstream survivors (I'll skip the luxury market), and I think SUV's and pickups will dominate the market the remainder of my life.