The Ford Mustang Mach-E Handily Outsold The Gas Mustang In 2024

[DeluxeStang]

47 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

But the stock price has been dropping, its around $10 a share.

I'm considering buying in right now. 

[DeluxeStang]

6 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Radio silence and no concepts or any sort of future vision outside of "trust us!" is annoying.

Very weird theory, but when would Ford reveal their F1 prototypes for the 2026 season? Would it be early 2026 or later this year? I only ask, because Ford's been pushing motorsports and it's connection to their street cars super hard these last few years. It's no secret they got F1 aerodynamicists doing the areo for these affordable EVs, and they know F1 is hot right now, any announcement, especially with a team like Red Bull, is gonna get a lot of attention. 

 

So here me out, what if whenever Ford reveals their F1 car for the first time at some sort of event, they also go "Oh and this is how F1 will influence our street cars" and reveal some teasers of their upcoming EVs. If it wasn't gonna be Detroit or CES, this seems like the next best thing. Were less than 2 years from these things hitting the market, it's logical to expect to see prototypes and concepts this year imo. 

[rmc523]

1 minute ago, DeluxeStang said:

Very weird theory, but when would Ford reveal their F1 prototypes for the 2026 season? Would it be early 2026 or later this year? I only ask, because Ford's been pushing motorsports and it's connection to their street cars super hard these last few years. It's no secret they got F1 aerodynamicists doing the areo for these affordable EVs, and they know F1 is hot right now, any announcement, especially with a team like Red Bull, is gonna get a lot of attention. 

 

So here me out, what if whenever Ford reveals their F1 car for the first time at some sort of event, they also go "Oh and this is how F1 will influence our street cars" and reveal some teasers of their upcoming EVs. If it wasn't gonna be Detroit or CES, this seems like the next best thing. Were less than 2 years from these things hitting the market, it's logical to expect to see prototypes and concepts this year imo. 

 

Racing does nothing for me.  A teaser of some far off product won't be much better either, IMO.  I want to see something legitimately tangible.

[HotRunrGuy]

8 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I'm considering buying in right now. 

Good luck. I jumped in around late '18, when it dipped below $10. Then the pandemic hit, dropped into the $4's, then they suspended the dividend.  Had to wait a while to get my original investment back.

 

HRG

[DeluxeStang]

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Racing does nothing for me.  A teaser of some far off product won't be much better either, IMO.  I want to see something legitimately tangible.

I don't really see something coming in 2026 as being super far off. 

[rmc523]

11 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I don't really see something coming in 2026 as being super far off. 

 

Ford changes plans daily.  the 3-row EV was imminent, redesigned, imminent, then cancelled.  Until I see it, I don't believe it.

Edited January 15 by rmc523

[Rick73]

22 hours ago, T-dubz said:

Another issue that may or may not be a problem is you no longer need a sports car to go fast. EVs can accelerate faster while still providing all the space, functionality,  and creature comforts of a SUV, truck, or sedan. And today’s ICE trucks and SUVs are not too far off from sports cars from a few years ago. F150, escape and explorer can all go 0 to 60 in mid to upper 5 second range. 

True, and also interesting and IMO relevant to this conversation, that original Mustang wasn’t that different for its time when many large family vehicles were much faster.  The Mustang with 271 HP (gross rating) 289 V8 was quick for its time, but did not sell well either due to higher cost or buyers didn’t feel they needed the extra power.  The vast majority of Mustangs, even 289 with 4-barrel carburetors, could be outrun by many family sedans and station wagons with big-block V8s.  Mustang’s tremendous sales success over first few years wasn’t driven primarily by speed.  Below from Hemmings states K-code was very small percentage:

 

“Included with the “Hi-Po” 289 were a Special Handling Package and a full complement of 6.95 x 14 dual-red-stripe tires. The entry fee for this performance boost: a whopping $442.60 over the additional $75 assigned to the 260-cu in engine option. With the exception of the $283.20 air conditioning, no other factory or dealer Mustang accessory had such an impact on buyer’s wallets, which means K-code production was understandably low. Over the course of a three model-year run (technically all 19641/2; Mustangs have a ’65 model year VIN), just 13,231 of the nearly 1.7 million Mustangs that rolled from the assembly line were equipped as such: 7,273 from introduction through ’65; 5,469 in ’66; and a mere 489 in ’67 according to Marti Auto Works.“

 

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/1964-1-2-67-ford-mustang-k-code-289/

 

[akirby]

8 hours ago, ANTAUS said:

When the stock prices start dropping, then watch them share more info...

I think they’re still regrouping and replanning after the EV shakeup.

[akirby]

5 hours ago, Rick73 said:

True, and also interesting and IMO relevant to this conversation, that original Mustang wasn’t that different for its time when many large family vehicles were much faster.  The Mustang with 271 HP (gross rating) 289 V8 was quick for its time, but did not sell well either due to higher cost or buyers didn’t feel they needed the extra power.  The vast majority of Mustangs, even 289 with 4-barrel carburetors, could be outrun by many family sedans and station wagons with big-block V8s.  Mustang’s tremendous sales success over first few years wasn’t driven primarily by speed.  Below from Hemmings states K-code was very small percentage:

 

“Included with the “Hi-Po” 289 were a Special Handling Package and a full complement of 6.95 x 14 dual-red-stripe tires. The entry fee for this performance boost: a whopping $442.60 over the additional $75 assigned to the 260-cu in engine option. With the exception of the $283.20 air conditioning, no other factory or dealer Mustang accessory had such an impact on buyer’s wallets, which means K-code production was understandably low. Over the course of a three model-year run (technically all 19641/2; Mustangs have a ’65 model year VIN), just 13,231 of the nearly 1.7 million Mustangs that rolled from the assembly line were equipped as such: 7,273 from introduction through ’65; 5,469 in ’66; and a mere 489 in ’67 according to Marti Auto Works.“

 

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/1964-1-2-67-ford-mustang-k-code-289/

 

Cheap cars outsell expensive versions.  Who knew?

 

Ford doesn’t want to sell more mustangs - they want to sell less but at higher and more profitable price points due to CAFE.  Selling more at lower profit margins makes no sense.

[tbone]

14 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Why did you skip 2024? The price went up to $42,860 that year. 

Once again EVERYTHING has gotten more expensive over the past couple years and the past 4 years or so have been the worst for inflation that I can remember in my lifetime. 

 

My point was the speed in which the prices increased.  I am well aware of how everything has gotten expensive considering that I built a house during that same timeframe, and bought cars.  Consumer’s income was not even remotely close to increasing at that same rate, if at all.  That’s why I think the price increases have hurt its sales. 

[tbone]

7 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

…F1 is hot right now, any announcement, especially with a team like Red Bull, is gonna get a lot of attention. 

This is true and high profile, so Ford better have their stuff together on this, otherwise it will be very embarrassing for them.

 

2 hours ago, akirby said:

I think they’re still regrouping and replanning after the EV shakeup.

 

This has been pretty frustrating. The lack of anything to be excited about has been pretty disappointing. The activity on this board has been much less than in the past, which I think is a direct result of the lack of products to discuss. The things that get talked about now are basically just problems, such as quality, pricing, the production plant situations, the status of EVs, etc.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, tbone said:

My point was the speed in which the prices increased.  I am well aware of how everything has gotten expensive considering that I built a house during that same timeframe, and bought cars.  Consumer’s income was not even remotely close to increasing at that same rate, if at all.  That’s why I think the price increases have hurt its sales. 

Didnt Ford drop some base versions and include more equipment?

[ice-capades]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Didnt Ford drop some base versions and include more equipment?

 

Isn't that what Ford's been doing across multiple vehicle lines for the past several years? It's another method of increasing prices in addition to the regular and more frequent price increases. 

[brucelinc]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Didnt Ford drop some base versions and include more equipment?

 

The 10A is now a no-cost option on 2025 models   It was $1,595 before.   However, the B&O sound system used to be part of the 401a package but now it is a separate $995 option.    The S650 has a more modern dash layout, although some purists hate it.    I prefer the appearance of the S650 but, again, many disagree.   The tech is improved as are the materials vs. the S550.   My 2018 GT stickered for 48.5K.    A 2025 with the same options stickers for 62.5K.     That does not strike me as outrageous but it has shocked some of my Mustang friends who just do not care for some of the changes.     

 

Just based on the Mustang forums and Mustang groups in which I am a member, the primary complaints are as follows:   It looks too much like a Camaro.   The dash looks like it came out of a Tesla.   The ECU is locked so it cannot be tuned.   The  differences from the S550 do not justify the higher price.    

[DeluxeStang]

11 hours ago, tbone said:

This has been pretty frustrating. The lack of anything to be excited about has been pretty disappointing. The activity on this board has been much less than in the past, which I think is a direct result of the lack of products to discuss. The things that get talked about now are basically just problems, such as quality, pricing, the production plant situations, the status of EVs, etc.

Not only has it been frustrating, it makes you concerned about what's coming. Other brands have already revealed products for '26 and even '27, but Ford isn't. 

[morgan20]

11 hours ago, tbone said:

The lack of anything to be excited about has been pretty disappointing. The activity on this board has been much less than in the past, which I think is a direct result of the lack of products to discuss.

 

9 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Not only has it been frustrating, it makes you concerned about what's coming. Other brands have already revealed products for '26 and even '27, but Ford isn't. 

 

This board has talked about Ford's skunkworks. Hopefully new products from that operation will start showin' up this year. And hopefully Ford's skunkworks follows the direction of 21st century skunkworks at other companies:

 

Expectations for the products developed by skunkworks have changed in the 21st century from "something that makes their competitors say 'Wow'" to "something that makes their competitors' customers say 'Wow'"

 

I agree with everyone on this board that a new product onslaught is needed at Ford. Especially for its electric vehicle lineup

Edited January 16 by morgan20

[Sherminator98]

12 hours ago, tbone said:

My point was the speed in which the prices increased.  I am well aware of how everything has gotten expensive considering that I built a house during that same timeframe, and bought cars.  Consumer’s income was not even remotely close to increasing at that same rate, if at all.  That’s why I think the price increases have hurt its sales. 

 

I found this cart from St Louis Fed


https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N#

 

So a couple things to keep in mind-

 

People where getting COVID stimulus checks in 2020/21-I was one of them and really didn't need it since I was affect as much as maybe some other people needed it

 

Look at the chart-income dropped in 2022...because those stimulus checks stopped, but income increased in 2023 to what it was in 2019 (off this chart) and inflation kept going up.

 

So I'm guessing that expense thing is two things-people incomes shrinking due to lack of stimulus check in 2022 and inflation increasing during the same time. 

I know I got some decent cost of living and step increases at my job (which I happened to start in 2020) and I make about 20-25% more then I did prior to 2020, but I still don't feel like I'm making more then what I did prior to that because of cost increases on everything too. 

[bzcat]

Wage increase has outpaced inflation since end of 2022. We are in a period of very robust economic recovery. 

 

https://www.epi.org/blog/average-wages-have-surpassed-inflation-for-12-straight-months/

 

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americans-wages-are-higher-than-they-have-ever-been-and-employment-is-near-its-all-time-high/

 

https://www.marketplace.org/2024/10/30/wage-growth-slowing-outpace-inflation-jobs-earnings-payroll-wage-gains/

 

But it is also true inflation outpaced wage growth from end of 2020 to 2022.

 

 

 

Edited January 16 by bzcat

[tzach]

Problem is when inflation comes down that is only the rate of increase.  Everything still costs a lot more and most of the costs will not come down.  Probably the best we can hope for is that prices stay flat and what we make keeps going up.

[tbone]

5 hours ago, brucelinc said:

 

Just based on the Mustang forums and Mustang groups in which I am a member, the primary complaints are as follows:   It looks too much like a Camaro.   The dash looks like it came out of a Tesla.   The ECU is locked so it cannot be tuned.   The  differences from the S550 do not justify the higher price.    

Although I like the new Mustang, even though I see hints of the Camaro, none of these arguments are unreasonable.  

[AGR]

On 1/15/2025 at 2:55 PM, DeluxeStang said:

Very weird theory, but when would Ford reveal their F1 prototypes for the 2026 season? Would it be early 2026 or later this year? I only ask, because Ford's been pushing motorsports and it's connection to their street cars super hard these last few years. It's no secret they got F1 aerodynamicists doing the areo for these affordable EVs, and they know F1 is hot right now, any announcement, especially with a team like Red Bull, is gonna get a lot of attention. 

 

So here me out, what if whenever Ford reveals their F1 car for the first time at some sort of event, they also go "Oh and this is how F1 will influence our street cars" and reveal some teasers of their upcoming EVs. If it wasn't gonna be Detroit or CES, this seems like the next best thing. Were less than 2 years from these things hitting the market, it's logical to expect to see prototypes and concepts this year imo. 

 

Standard practice for F1 teams is to not unveil their new cars until a month or so before the season starts. And that reveal is mostly just the livery. The final aero configuration doesn't become public until right before the first practice session for the first race.

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, tzach said:

Problem is when inflation comes down that is only the rate of increase.  Everything still costs a lot more and most of the costs will not come down.  Probably the best we can hope for is that prices stay flat and what we make keeps going up.

This, as a young person, I want a mustang gt, I'm even willing to pay in the 50s for it because it's one of my all time dream cars. But I can't afford a 50k car that's also seeing 3-5 grand in price increases every single model year. Let's hope the price jump for '25 models was a fluke and not a sign of things to come. 

[Sherminator98]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

This, as a young person, I want a mustang gt, I'm even willing to pay in the 50s for it because it's one of my all time dream cars. But I can't afford a 50k car that's also seeing 3-5 grand in price increases every single model year. Let's hope the price jump for '25 models was a fluke and not a sign of things to come. 

 

Once again the jump in price wasn't that much over the 2024 for a  deep refresh-it was roughly 3K more

 

Just doing the math on a car loan-figuring 10K down at 5% @ 60 months the difference in a monthly payment between 50K and 55K is under a $100 bucks a month. 

 

Like I said before, lots of what is going on is actual sticker shock vs being able to afford it...yeah in a big ticket item like a house its a huge issue, but not so much with a vehicle. 

[ESP08]

On 1/7/2025 at 9:15 AM, DeluxeStang said:

I'll be real, the s650 doesn't even really look like a Camaro, it just has really pronounced hips, which was a design feature of even the '65 stang, but especially the '67-70 designs. I heard someone say the s650 was the worst looking mustang in history, and I couldn't tell if they were high, a troll, or just stupid. 

 

Controversial opinion here, but from most angles imo, the s650 is just a better looking s550. I know that's gonna ruffle some feathers, but that's just my opinion. 

 

The S650 is so good looking it lost 10,000 sales on a refresh year.    The car simply isn't appealing to the majority out on the road, you have a minority opinion 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, ESP08 said:

 

The S650 is so good looking it lost 10,000 sales on a refresh year.    The car simply isn't appealing to the majority out on the road, you have a minority opinion 

The styling changes are subtle and most buyers wouldn’t care.  Price and a general decline in that market (and the fact it’s middle of winter) are much more likely root causes.