The Ford Mustang Mach-E Handily Outsold The Gas Mustang In 2024

[mackinaw]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

See, the confusing thing is he and Farley are talking about how the greatest days of mustang are ahead, how they're investing a ton of money into it to expand and strengthen the brand, going all out. Then you have insiders on this site who are saying the mustang will stay around, but rely on the cheapest, most cost effective principles to do so, keeping investment in it to a minimum due to low demand.......

 

Don't forget the Mustang is on a dedicated platform which, to me, is rather remarkable given its relatively low production volume.  Luckily the platform is a good one so there's no real need for a major redesign.  I'll take Bill Ford at his word that as long as he's at Ford, they will build a Mustang.  I'd own one right now, if I didn't live in snow land.

[morgan20]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

Farley's comments on how they would never make an all electric mustang coupe rather head scratching. I personally believe that decision will be reversed in the future, it has to be. 

 

When did the head honcho say Ford would never make an all electric Mustang coupe? You are right that if he did say something like that, it's head scratching. Ol' Billy Boy said in the Detroit News video that Ford is working hard to keep Mustang coupe fresh and relevant. That suggests Ford should be bringin' an all electric Mustang coupe out sooner rather than later.

 

The Dodge boys already have their all electric Charger coupe arriving at dealerships

Edited January 13 by morgan20

[AGR]

Mark Reuss said last year that the Camaro was not gone forever, that it would become an inexpensive EV coupe. Of course, Chevy still has the Corvette to cover the ICE sports car segment. I would think Ford will do something similar. Perhaps the EV would be called something else.(?)

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

When did the head honcho say Ford would never make an all electric Mustang coupe? You are right that if he did say something like that, it's head scratching. Ol' Billy Boy said in the Detroit News video that Ford is working hard to keep Mustang coupe fresh and relevant. That suggests Ford should be bringin' an all electric Mustang coupe out sooner rather than later.

 

The Dodge boys already have their all electric Charger coupe arriving at dealerships

It was some interview he did, the same one where he talked about making a sedan. 

Edited January 13 by DeluxeStang

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, AGR said:

Mark Reuss said last year that the Camaro was not gone forever, that it would become an inexpensive EV coupe. Of course, Chevy still has the Corvette to cover the ICE sports car segment. I would think Ford will do something similar. Perhaps the EV would be called something else.(?)

Which is why doing multiple mustang car models is starting to make more sense. A 2 seater, more exotic, V8 powered model to compete with the Corvette, but as a front engine model. Then another electric small mustang coupe, Ford's cayman to the 911 to compete with this electric Camaro. 

[Sherminator98]

24 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Then another electric small mustang coupe, Ford's cayman to the 911 to compete with this electric Camaro. 

Not sure why people get so caught up on the Mustangs size-the orginal was 181 inches long and the 2025 is 189. What exactly are you going to do with that extra 8 inches or so with a smaller car? 
 

 

[mackinaw]

4 hours ago, morgan20 said:

The Dodge boys already have their all electric Charger coupe arriving at dealerships

 

The car that answers a question that nobody asked.  Talk about not understanding the market.  The Charger demographic (baby boomers) want ICE, not an EV.

[morgan20]

11 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

The car that answers a question that nobody asked.  Talk about not understanding the market.  The Charger demographic (baby boomers) want ICE, not an EV.

 

The Stellantis big shots understand the market and the Charger demographic. The new Charger is offered in both ICE and EV

 

“We aren’t building electric vehicles because it’s trendy.
We’re building them to make a difference.
To protect our future and our children’s future, we’re building electric vehicles to save our planet.
To save it from all those lame, soulless, weak-looking, self-driving sleep pods everyone else keeps polluting our streets with … (gah)!
(scenes of Dodge Charger Daytona taking over the streets)
That’s why we’re doing it.”

 

 

[jpd80]

11 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

He said as long as he's at Ford, there will be a Mustang, but executives do retire and will his replacement share his views?

 

He also asked the question if the Mach E is a real Mustang and his answer was the people who drove it gave him a resounding "yes". So that shows his willingness to offer the Mustang nameplate on a product that is different from what we've come to expect and like it or not, Ford will be open minded to a change in the car's format.

Whoever replaces Bill Ford will have the Family’s wishes to keep their heritage going.

 

Also, Bill Ford had the final say on the naming of Mach E, if he disagreed with

it being a Mustang, then Farley would have had to find another name

[tbone]

1 hour ago, morgan20 said:

 

The Stellantis big shots understand the market and the Charger demographic. The new Charger is offered in both ICE and EV

 

“We aren’t building electric vehicles because it’s trendy.
We’re building them to make a difference.
To protect our future and our children’s future, we’re building electric vehicles to save our planet.
To save it from all those lame, soulless, weak-looking, self-driving sleep pods everyone else keeps polluting our streets with … (gah)!
(scenes of Dodge Charger Daytona taking over the streets)
That’s why we’re doing it.”

 

 

I don’t think they do, but we will find out soon enough who is right.  And the inline 6, is no Hellcat or Demon.  
 

This article also suggests otherwise.  I understand he is referring to the trucks, but why on earth would you even mention the Hemi when you’re trying to sell an in-line six if it wasn’t a problem. 
 

https://moparinsiders.com/ram-ceo-leaves-door-open-for-hemi-v8-comeback-in-ram-1500/

 

The statement you quoted sounds like they’re convincing themselves. I’m guessing it also has to do with CAFE as well.  

Edited January 13 by tbone

[Sherminator98]

6 hours ago, tbone said:

https://moparinsiders.com/ram-ceo-leaves-door-open-for-hemi-v8-comeback-in-ram-1500/

 

The statement you quoted sounds like they’re convincing themselves. I’m guessing it also has to do with CAFE as well.  

 

They also had to buy credits from Tesla to offset things. 

 

They might be able to do it in a very limited fashion, but I wouldn't count on it. 

[rmc523]

18 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

The question no one is asking is "Why are millions suffering with big pickups and SUVs when they could be enjoying sports cars that cost less?"

 

Who is suffering?  Just because you don't like it doesn't mean people are suffering.

 

17 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

See, the confusing thing is he and Farley are talking about how the greatest days of mustang are ahead, how they're investing a ton of money into it to expand and strengthen the brand, going all out. Then you have insiders on this site who are saying the mustang will stay around, but rely on the cheapest, most cost effective principles to do so, keeping investment in it to a minimum due to low demand. 

 

I think part of it could be people like JPD and other insiders actually tell us like it is, whereas executives are constantly trying to spin things to hype products up, that is part of their job after all. The other solution, and it's less likely, but more optimistic, is that Ford has created a roadmap of exciting mustang models that executives have seen, but that a lot of other people within Ford haven't seen thus far. 

 

With Ford's announcements, I take a "believe it when I see it" approach because of how often their plans change.

 

14 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Which makes sense, but it makes Farley's comments on how they would never make an all electric mustang coupe rather head scratching. I personally believe that decision will be reversed in the future, it has to be. 

 

I doubt "never" is the real answer.  But not soon.

 

9 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

The Stellantis big shots understand the market and the Charger demographic. The new Charger is offered in both ICE and EV

 

“We aren’t building electric vehicles because it’s trendy.
We’re building them to make a difference.
To protect our future and our children’s future, we’re building electric vehicles to save our planet.
To save it from all those lame, soulless, weak-looking, self-driving sleep pods everyone else keeps polluting our streets with … (gah)!
(scenes of Dodge Charger Daytona taking over the streets)
That’s why we’re doing it.”

 

 

 

They also started with the 4-door, and removed 2 doors to offer a 2-door coupe.

[Rick73]

8 hours ago, tbone said:

I don’t think they do, but we will find out soon enough who is right.  And the inline 6, is no Hellcat or Demon.  
 

This article also suggests otherwise.  I understand he is referring to the trucks, but why on earth would you even mention the Hemi when you’re trying to sell an in-line six if it wasn’t a problem. 
 

https://moparinsiders.com/ram-ceo-leaves-door-open-for-hemi-v8-comeback-in-ram-1500/

 

The statement you quoted sounds like they’re convincing themselves. I’m guessing it also has to do with CAFE as well.  

Sounds to me that Hemi engine came up as a question from Motor1 during interview, and his reply was worded carefully as if question was anticipated.  Electrical incompatibility makes sense, but eTorque not being available not so much.  RAM could just reintroduce standard Hemi without eTorque, couldn’t they?

 

I can see why some RAM fans want the Hemi back.  The standard Hurricane isn’t significantly more fuel efficient, and requires more expensive premium fuel to achieve rated power.  The high output Hurricane costs more, burns more fuel, and requires premium.  And buyers who want economy will still choose Pentastar V6.  The Hurricane doesn’t seem to solve much of anything, other than maybe slight emissions reduction that apparently many buyers couldn’t care less about.

 

RAM CEO may have also left door cracked on Hemi to buy time until they can fix Hurricane problems and or buyers get used to twin-turbo small-displacement engines as occurred with F-150.  I’ve never owned a RAM, but if considering, would prefer pushrod V8 over twin-turbo six any day.  That part I can relate to.  Hurricane is too complex and I expect will cost more to own longterm. 

[mackinaw]

14 hours ago, morgan20 said:

The Stellantis big shots understand the market and the Charger demographic. The new Charger is offered in both ICE and EV.....

 

Really.  The Stellantis "big shots" idea of understanding the market is to pipe in fake V8 engine sounds.  You can't buy a hemi in the Charger anymore, but you can pretend you have one.

[akirby]

 

[Chrisgb]

4 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Sounds to me that Hemi engine came up as a question from Motor1 during interview, and his reply was worded carefully as if question was anticipated.  Electrical incompatibility makes sense, but eTorque not being available not so much.  RAM could just reintroduce standard Hemi without eTorque, couldn’t they?

 

I can see why some RAM fans want the Hemi back.  The standard Hurricane isn’t significantly more fuel efficient, and requires more expensive premium fuel to achieve rated power.  The high output Hurricane costs more, burns more fuel, and requires premium.  And buyers who want economy will still choose Pentastar V6.  The Hurricane doesn’t seem to solve much of anything, other than maybe slight emissions reduction that apparently many buyers couldn’t care less about.

 

RAM CEO may have also left door cracked on Hemi to buy time until they can fix Hurricane problems and or buyers get used to twin-turbo small-displacement engines as occurred with F-150.  I’ve never owned a RAM, but if considering, would prefer pushrod V8 over twin-turbo six any day.  That part I can relate to.  Hurricane is too complex and I expect will cost more to own longterm. 

Cylinder count is still a thing. The 2.3L EcoBoost I-Four in my Ranger has more horsepower per liter than any other vehicle I've ever owned, but it ain't got enough bores. I think the way to go until we Boomers fully age out of the new vehicle market is to develop a simple pushrod V8, maybe with a 60º Vee for Rangers, Explorer and the Bronco & BSport. I would think/hope that any EPA penalty could be absorbed if the design was simple enough. Gasoline Direct Injection, variable valve timing and higher compression make up much of the performance of today's ICE engines, super-and turbocharging make up the rest. Gimmie Farley's bonus and I'll come up with a 3L± normally aspirated V8 w/ 2valves per cylinder GDI, VVT, 275+ horsepower. Fart can this.

[Rick73]

Between Chevy and RAM pickup owners, seems there is much loyalty for pushrod V8s.  Maybe Ford should downsize an aluminum Godzilla down to 5.7 ~ 6.4 liters.  Not serious.  I digress.  Better in a Mustang. 😀

[Rick73]

19 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

Cylinder count is still a thing. The 2.3L EcoBoost I-Four in my Ranger has more horsepower per liter than any other vehicle I've ever owned, but it ain't got enough bores. I think the way to go until we Boomers fully age out of the new vehicle market is to develop a simple pushrod V8, maybe with a 60º Vee for Rangers, Explorer and the Bronco & BSport. I would think/hope that any EPA penalty could be absorbed if the design was simple enough. Gasoline Direct Injection, variable valve timing and higher compression make up much of the performance of today's ICE engines, super-and turbocharging make up the rest. Gimmie Farley's bonus and I'll come up with a 3L± normally aspirated V8 w/ 2valves per cylinder GDI, VVT, 275+ horsepower. Fart can this.

A 60-degree V8 isn’t ideal, though Ford had one already.  That configuration is almost as bad as the more common 90-degree V6 made by removing 2-cylinders from a V8, or a 90-degree V10 by adding 2 cylinders also to a V8.  Ford did those too, and more recently.  Reminds me of penny wise but pound foolish lack of judgment.

 

If you are referring to a new smaller 2-valve pushrod V8, I think 4.0L or smaller would easily fit in a Ranger, Explorer, Transit, etc.  However, any naturally aspirated 4-cycle engine in the 3-liter size range would lack enough torque for heavier modern vehicles.  At 4~4.5 liters it starts to sound better if emissions can be managed.  Realistically, a naturally-aspirated DOHC inline six makes more sense to me, mainly because 3.4L would be affordable.  Just add 2 cylinders to Mustang and Explorer modular I-4 as previously discussed and cost should remain low.  Your 275 HP would be easy from NA 3.4L I-6.

[T-dubz]

I’m surprised mustang is still around. Low sales, dedicated platform, and its own factory? Any other vehicle and it would be gone a long time ago. Most dealers around me don’t even stock mustangs anymore, and if they do, it’s only one or two. 

[akirby]

15 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

I’m surprised mustang is still around. Low sales, dedicated platform, and its own factory? Any other vehicle and it would be gone a long time ago. Most dealers around me don’t even stock mustangs anymore, and if they do, it’s only one or two. 

4k a month is pretty decent and in the spring with convertibles it’s probably more like 6K.  It’s an icon so numbers are meaningless.

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, T-dubz said:

I’m surprised mustang is still around. Low sales, dedicated platform, and its own factory? Any other vehicle and it would be gone a long time ago. Most dealers around me don’t even stock mustangs anymore, and if they do, it’s only one or two. 

Develop a platform that can be shared with other performance vehicles, stabilize sales with a variety of interesting derivatives. 

Edited January 14 by DeluxeStang

[akirby]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Develop a platform that can be shared with other performance vehicles, stabilize sales with a variety of interesting derivatives. 

It shares a lot with CD6.

[DeluxeStang]

49 minutes ago, akirby said:

It shares a lot with CD6.

Not a ton from what I've heard, a few parts here and there. 

[T-dubz]

3 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Develop a platform that can be shared with other performance vehicles, stabilize sales with a variety of interesting derivatives. 

According to this article, Ford doesn’t think pricing is an issue. 

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/747170/ford-mustang-priced-right-despite-low-sales/

 

I would beg to differ. Any article about low mustang sales is filled with comments about its price. Sharing a platform with another vehicle could help lower the price. A Lincoln or thunderbird could be options. An alternative could be something like the Toyota Supra/bmw z4 deal. Wouldn’t a Camaro/mustang deal be crazy? 

[Sherminator98]

8 hours ago, T-dubz said:

According to this article, Ford doesn’t think pricing is an issue. 

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/747170/ford-mustang-priced-right-despite-low-sales/

 

I would beg to differ. Any article about low mustang sales is filled with comments about its price. Sharing a platform with another vehicle could help lower the price. A Lincoln or thunderbird could be options. An alternative could be something like the Toyota Supra/bmw z4 deal. Wouldn’t a Camaro/mustang deal be crazy? 

 

The Price increases on the Mustang aren't out of line for the rest of the industry either. There are lots of people looking with rose colored glasses on pricing with every/anything today...it boils down to sticker shock but everything goes up in price. I bought a couch over the weekend-the sales guy was telling me a story that people bought a hand made mattress that was say 5K 30 years ago and go oh shit when the same thing costs 20K+ now, without realizing they haven't had to buy a mattress for that long-your typical mattress only lasts about 7-10 years if your lucky

 

I remember looking at Mustang GTs in 1992 or so and them only being 14K and 32 years later, a base 2024 GT starts at $42K, with more then double the HP and far better standard equipment on it. 

The CPI calculator says that 14K in 1992 is worth about 31.5K in todays dollars. 

 

Even if the Mustang pricing dropped, I wouldn't expect a huge increase in sales numbers. I'm guessing that the Mustang is profitable at the point it is at-the platform has been more or less paid for since it is a modified platform from 20 years ago when the S197 came out. The IRS update was done 10 years ago, so everything now is just about improving/tweaking it.