rmc523 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, tzach said: I totally agree. They tried to do two things with Escape, 1. contrast it with the boxy Bronco Sport and 2. have it replace the old Escape and be a sedan alternative. I don't necessarily think that was a mistake but the execution was horrible. Instead of the rounded boring styling of the current Escape give it more angular sporty lines, sort of like a Range Rover Evoque. Not sure who said it but the quote went "You can sell a sporty car to someone who doesn't care about styling but you can't sell a boring car to someone who who does". Any segment can be styled sporty or "cool". 44 minutes ago, akirby said: I think they were trying to capture lost Focus buyers and still planning on a lot of fleet sales. I think it should mimic Explorer styling. Agree - they tried to appeal to a "car" buyer vs. attractive design. Explorer itself has become more raked/sporty in its current gen, so I agree that that'd be a good direction to go in style wise, while leaving more upright and formal boxy profile to BS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 6 hours ago, tzach said: Instead of the rounded boring styling of the current Escape give it more angular sporty lines, sort of like a Range Rover Evoque. Escape looks fine to me. I think its relatively poor sales are due to its poor quality reputation, compared to the RAV4 and CRV, which have a reputation for going hundreds of thousands of miles with routine maintenance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 7 hours ago, tzach said: I totally agree. They tried to do two things with Escape, 1. contrast it with the boxy Bronco Sport and 2. have it replace the old Escape and be a sedan alternative. I don't necessarily think that was a mistake but the execution was horrible. Instead of the rounded boring styling of the current Escape give it more angular sporty lines, sort of like a Range Rover Evoque. Not sure who said it but the quote went "You can sell a sporty car to someone who doesn't care about styling but you can't sell a boring car to someone who who does". Any segment can be styled sporty or "cool". I'd really like to see the escape become a baby mach-e of sorts. It would be interesting to see how a sporty shape like that would impact sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said: I'd really like to see the escape become a baby mach-e of sorts. It would be interesting to see how a sporty shape like that would impact sales. I think it would help quite a bit. The MME is a great looking vehicle, and probably would be selling a lot more if it had an ICE powertrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 On 1/20/2025 at 4:22 AM, akirby said: Off roaders and those who like to pretend are passionate and spend big bucks. It’s a no brainer. Absolutely, agree 100%. If I’m not mistaken, these were once called “lifestyle vehicles”…… probably still are in some quarters. This is Ford playing to its strengths and offering the kinds of vehicles that bring in big profits. Really hope this gets the mental juices flowing at Ford, rediscover what their core is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 10 hours ago, ehaase said: Escape looks fine to me. I think its relatively poor sales are due to its poor quality reputation, compared to the RAV4 and CRV, which have a reputation for going hundreds of thousands of miles with routine maintenance. The current body escape looked like a clown car when it came out with the awkward grille, a cheaper interior vs. competitors, and also got unfair (IMO) reviews of the 3-cylinder powertrain that seemed to torpedo sales. The refresh definitely helped its looks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 hours ago, rmc523 said: The refresh definitely helped its looks. It's still an anonymous boring unibody blob. But the referesh definitely helped sales: Escape U.S. sales went up in both 2023 and 2024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 I finally drove my Mom's 2020 Escape-I was cracking up because it was about 90-95% identical (IMO) to my wife's 2024 Bronco Sport in feel and interior materials. The ride was slightly softer (longer wheelbase) but otherwise there really wasn't much different between them. The thing that annoyed the living crap out of me was the piss poor placement of the engine start button, it was placed on the side of the center console at nearly 90 angle to the driver...I saw Ford relocated it to the lower part of the dash on the refresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 23 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said: The thing that annoyed the living crap out of me was the piss poor placement of the engine start button, it was placed on the side of the center console at nearly 90 angle to the driver...I saw Ford relocated it to the lower part of the dash on the refresh. Ford didn't change that on the refreshed Escape Engine start button is still angled that way on refreshed Escape with the 8" screen: With the 13.2" screen, engine start button is located in the lower part of the dash, just as on the pre-refresh Escape: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 10 minutes ago, morgan20 said: Ford didn't change that on the refreshed Escape Engine start button is still angled that way on refreshed Escape with the 8" screen: Oh I was under the impression that the refreshed Escape just came with the larger screen, but that was just the 2025 Bronco Sport that does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, morgan20 said: It's still an anonymous boring unibody blob. But the referesh definitely helped sales: Escape U.S. sales went up in both 2023 and 2024 Part of that was better hybrid availability. That was a problem in 21 and 22. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) There is nothing majorly wrong with Escape styling. It is not very exciting but boring sells in this segment... compact CUV is the equivalent of midsize sedan from before times - people want reliable transport that are good value. The thing with Escape is that basically the competitors got better, and some of them can just sell based on reputation for reliability and value along... Escape nameplate doesn't have that kind of equity, which is why Farley is going to kill it. I'm not saying I agree with the decision BTW, I'm just offering my observation and explain what might be going on at Ford. Farley seemed to have concluded he can get more mileage from next gen Bronco Sport than trying to revive Escape. Wouldn't surprise me if the CE1 replacement is call Explorer Sport instead of Escape - assuming Farley actually has a plan to replace the big Explorer (he doesn't right now). Remember, the MEB Explorer EV sold in Europe was originally going to be a worldwide model with the US version going to Oakville under Hackett... so Explorer Sport name likely was going to be used for the US market for that car. Farley pulled the plug on MEB in the US once he became CEO. Edited January 22 by bzcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 hours ago, morgan20 said: It's still an anonymous boring unibody blob. But the referesh definitely helped sales: Escape U.S. sales went up in both 2023 and 2024 At least now it doesn't have a goofy front end. 27 minutes ago, bzcat said: There is nothing majorly wrong with Escape styling. It is not very exciting but boring sells in this segment... compact CUV is the equivalent of midsize sedan from before times - people want reliable transport that are good value. The thing with Escape is that basically the competitors got better, and some of them can just sell based on reputation for reliability and value along... Escape nameplate doesn't have that kind of equity, which is why Farley is going to kill it. I'm not saying I agree with the decision BTW, I'm just offering my observation and explain what might be going on at Ford. Farley seemed to have concluded he can get more mileage from next gen Bronco Sport than trying to revive Escape. Wouldn't surprise me if the CE1 replacement is call Explorer Sport instead of Escape - assuming Farley actually has a plan to replace the big Explorer (he doesn't right now). Remember, the MEB Explorer EV sold in Europe was originally going to be a worldwide model with the US version going to Oakville under Hackett... so Explorer Sport name likely was going to be used for the US market for that car. Farley pulled the plug on MEB in the US once he became CEO. Escape was one of if not the top seller in the segment for a long time until more recently Rav-4 and CR-V have run away with it. Sure Ford has split the segment with BS/Escape, but Honda and Toyota also have the HR-V and Corolla Cross now, and Rav4/CR-V sales have still skyrocketed past Escape. Ford hasn't matched their improvements, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: At least now it doesn't have a goofy front end. Escape was one of if not the top seller in the segment for a long time until more recently Rav-4 and CR-V have run away with it. Sure Ford has split the segment with BS/Escape, but Honda and Toyota also have the HR-V and Corolla Cross now, and Rav4/CR-V sales have still skyrocketed past Escape. Ford hasn't matched their improvements, unfortunately. Old Escape was heavy on fleet sales with big discounts. There is a reason there are so many white SEs on the road. Boring only sells at volume if pricing is super competitive. I think an edge sized replacement with hybrid powertrain and explorer styling would work far better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 54 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Escape was one of if not the top seller in the segment for a long time until more recently Rav-4 and CR-V have run away with it. Sure Ford has split the segment with BS/Escape, but Honda and Toyota also have the HR-V and Corolla Cross now, and Rav4/CR-V sales have still skyrocketed past Escape. The HR-V and Corolla Cross are actually longer then the Bronco Sport by 6 and 1 inch respectively and they aren't as off road capable as it 1 hour ago, bzcat said: Wouldn't surprise me if the CE1 replacement is call Explorer Sport instead of Escape - assuming Farley actually has a plan to replace the big Explorer (he doesn't right now). Remember, the MEB Explorer EV sold in Europe was originally going to be a worldwide model with the US version going to Oakville under Hackett... so Explorer Sport name likely was going to be used for the US market for that car. Farley pulled the plug on MEB in the US once he became CEO. Maybe they'll make the Escape replacement look like a Range Rover Evoque, more sporty boxy looking vehicle that doesn't look like the Bronco Sport. I'm guessing the Explorer in its current form/platform will stick around for another 10 years or so. There is major refresh stated for 2027/28. I can see maybe an EREV being used on that platform also. Given that EVs in the US have been up-ended and I'd expect the EU to give car makers a reprieve (short of them screwing their manufacturing base by allowing Chinese EVs in) for five years or so, I see EV not being majority of the market till late next decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 19 hours ago, ehaase said: Escape looks fine to me. I think its relatively poor sales are due to its poor quality reputation, compared to the RAV4 and CRV, which have a reputation for going hundreds of thousands of miles with routine maintenance. I'm fairly certain some escapes, like the hybrids, have a reputation for being very reliable overall. So I'm not sure that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 21 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: I'm fairly certain some escapes, like the hybrids, have a reputation for being very reliable overall Bronco Sport has a reputation being very reliable overall, Escape not so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 28 minutes ago, morgan20 said: Bronco Sport has a reputation being very reliable overall, Escape not so much I'm talking about the hybrid specifically, which I've always heard good things about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: I'm fairly certain some escapes, like the hybrids, have a reputation for being very reliable overall. So I'm not sure that's it. Numerous Toyotas and Hondas have a reputation of going 200,000 miles or more with regular maintenance and no major failures. No Fords, except F series and Panthers, have that reputation. Initial quality awards aren't sufficient. Several service advisors at my local Ford dealer have told me to keep driving my 2010 model because "the new stuff don't (sic) last." The first generation Escape sold well and was reliable, but it also used primarily Mazda components. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 3 minutes ago, ehaase said: Numerous Toyotas and Hondas have a reputation of going 200,000 miles or more with regular maintenance and no major failures. No Fords, except F series and Panthers, have that reputation. Initial quality awards aren't sufficient. Several service advisors at my local Ford dealer have told me to keep driving my 2010 model because "the new stuff don't (sic) last." The first generation Escape sold well and was reliable, but it also used primarily Mazda components. My wifes 2017 Escape went 127K miles before selling it and the only issue was the rear lift gate motor needed to be replaced. Her 2010 actually had more issues with it. Driving 200K miles is basically owning a car over 15 years old at average distance driven for a car in the US 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, ehaase said: Numerous Toyotas and Hondas have a reputation of going 200,000 miles or more with regular maintenance and no major failures. No Fords, except F series and Panthers, have that reputation. Initial quality awards aren't sufficient. Several service advisors at my local Ford dealer have told me to keep driving my 2010 model because "the new stuff don't (sic) last." The first generation Escape sold well and was reliable, but it also used primarily Mazda components. I mean, I could be wrong, but I believe the 2.5 hybrid in the escape and maverick is the same setup that's been around for well over a decade, and has proven itself to be insane reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 28 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: I mean, I could be wrong, but I believe the 2.5 hybrid in the escape and maverick is the same setup that's been around for well over a decade, and has proven itself to be insane reliable. It is but the 2.0 shit the bed with the coolant intrusion problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 9 hours ago, akirby said: It is but the 2.0 shit the bed with the coolant intrusion problem. As well as the 1.5L 4 banger. HRG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 17 hours ago, akirby said: Old Escape was heavy on fleet sales with big discounts. There is a reason there are so many white SEs on the road. Boring only sells at volume if pricing is super competitive. I think an edge sized replacement with hybrid powertrain and explorer styling would work far better. Huh? Your proposal to replace Escape is a replacement for Edge? 17 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: The HR-V and Corolla Cross are actually longer then the Bronco Sport by 6 and 1 inch respectively and they aren't as off road capable as it Maybe they'll make the Escape replacement look like a Range Rover Evoque, more sporty boxy looking vehicle that doesn't look like the Bronco Sport. I'm guessing the Explorer in its current form/platform will stick around for another 10 years or so. There is major refresh stated for 2027/28. I can see maybe an EREV being used on that platform also. Given that EVs in the US have been up-ended and I'd expect the EU to give car makers a reprieve (short of them screwing their manufacturing base by allowing Chinese EVs in) for five years or so, I see EV not being majority of the market till late next decade. My point was that Toyota and Honda have also split the segment into two models, yet their sales are dramatically higher, and manage to make money on them. Using C2 is supposed to allow for multiple profitable top hats - everyone else can do it, but Ford somehow can't and will drop more products. --- I definitely agree they need to make Escape more "gotta have it" looks wise and not cheap out on the interior like they did with this generation compared to competitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 28 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Huh? Your proposal to replace Escape is a replacement for Edge? Absolutely. I think it would be less of a commodity product and yield more profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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