Mich. should share water, N.M. governor says

[Michael Reynolds]

The Great Lakes fall under several areas of protection: the International Joint Commission and Great Lakes St. Lawerence River Water Basin Water Resources compact are just two examples of what I'm getting at.

 

Previous diversions, such as the Chicago River are limited and attempts to ship water elsewhere have been met with huge public outcry. This isn't about sharing or an East v. West battle, this simply boils down to local ecological and economic impacts that the Great Lakes region would face (nevermind the fact that watersheds of states that don't even touch the Great Lakes). It's a stupid idea! When are people going to realize that natural resources are not finite, and that when you pick up and move somewhere that they will follow you along?

[mettech]

The Great Lakes water levels are already falling to near record lows without the West leaching off of it.

 

Argue all you want, it ain't gonna happen.

:shades:

Talk about a "Closed Boarder Nation"..

 

It will happen if the Fed decides it will be best for the Nation.

 

I worked on a project in the '80s that looked into the requirement of the Mississippi River needing more water flow from the Great Lakes due to the drought. Much of the shipping on the Mississippi River was being affected my the low water level.

 

Several of the "Lake States" went to court to stop the request.

 

I will assure everyone here, that he Army was "very" involved with the study and had plans to ensure it would happen if the "go-ahead" was ordered.

 

As it turned out, the drought ended and the "Mighty River" flowed again.

 

The Federal Government will protect every State with any and all resources available if need be.

[NickF1011]

:shades:

Talk about a "Closed Boarder Nation"..

 

It will happen if the Fed decides it will be best for the Nation.

 

I worked on a project in the '80s that looked into the requirement of the Mississippi River needing more water flow from the Great Lakes due to the drought. Much of the shipping on the Mississippi River was being affected my the low water level.

 

Several of the "Lake States" went to court to stop the request.

 

I will assure everyone here, that he Army was "very" involved with the study and had plans to ensure it would happen if the "go-ahead" was ordered.

 

As it turned out, the drought ended and the "Mighty River" flowed again.

 

The Federal Government will protect every State with any and all resources available if need be.

 

The Fed can do all it wants. It still needs to appease Canada if they wish to do anything drastic with the Great Lakes. I have the belief that if you want to live in the desert for some ridiculous reason, find your own damn water.

[Biker16]

Oh, but we can all dream, can't we?

 

We've got TONS of space in the NJ Pine Barrens for the water-parched citizens of Las Vegas to move. Set up some nice casinos in the swamps inland of Atlantic City, and some spiffy skyscrapers to house all the idiots we're importing, and we're good to go.

 

All the retirees have PLENTY of space to move into in Florida, and they've got plenty of water as well.

 

Let the market dictate the price of water. If there isn't enough, raise prices until people either conserve or move out.

 

I've got far crazier ideas than just that. We need to kick genetically-engineered animal and plant development into high gear. Fast growing, high yielding crops so that the Africans have plenty of food. How about giant dinosaur-sized cows and chickens? Or even further than that... super fast growing corn so that ethanol plants can yield 8-10 crops per year?

 

Technology and science is so amazing. I'm convinced that no matter how badly we mess up as a society, science and technology will ALWAYS bail us out, whether it comes to energy, food, or pollution.

 

 

hey thats my argument for raising gas prices!!!!!!

 

Richard and I AGREE!! whoa!

[NickF1011]

hey thats my argument for raising gas prices!!!!!!

 

Richard and I AGREE!! whoa!

 

Doesn't quite work the same way for gas and water though unless the goal of higher gas prices be to force people to move somewhere else where gasoline is cheaper....which I don't quite think is the point.

[silvrsvt]

Oh, but we can all dream, can't we?

 

We've got TONS of space in the NJ Pine Barrens for the water-parched citizens of Las Vegas to move. Set up some nice casinos in the swamps inland of Atlantic City, and some spiffy skyscrapers to house all the idiots we're importing, and we're good to go.

 

God damnit there are too many people living in NJ already...we are already the most densely populated state in the Union and you want to make it worse?

 

I know you live in Monmouth county (hi Neighbor!), but do you really want me to come over and run you over with my rental Jetta?

 

Just fucking with you :finger:

 

All the retirees have PLENTY of space to move into in Florida, and they've got plenty of water as well.

 

If I'm not mistaken, FL has been in a pretty bad drought the past couple years and all the development in the state has been screwing up the ecosystem in the everglades...

[Biker16]

:shades:

Talk about a "Closed Boarder Nation"..

 

It will happen if the Fed decides it will be best for the Nation.

 

I worked on a project in the '80s that looked into the requirement of the Mississippi River needing more water flow from the Great Lakes due to the drought. Much of the shipping on the Mississippi River was being affected my the low water level.

 

Several of the "Lake States" went to court to stop the request.

 

I will assure everyone here, that he Army was "very" involved with the study and had plans to ensure it would happen if the "go-ahead" was ordered.

 

As it turned out, the drought ended and the "Mighty River" flowed again.

 

The Federal Government will protect every State with any and all resources available if need be.

 

could we have a civil war over water?

 

would the great lake states leave the union? or be annexed by Canada.

 

I know it far fetched, but these are uncertain times.

[one2gamble]

Southern California is just going to have to build a buttload of desalination plants. If it can get past the coastal commission (whose hearing is set for a month from now), we (San Diego) will have one that can supply water for 100,000 households. It's a start; another 7 and we should be about set for a while.

 

 

That was my main point about california though, we arent allowed to become self sustaining. They have been trying to build a dam for 20 years in central cali, cant do it because of environmental concerns.

 

Everytime someone trys to do something some legless lizard shows up to stop it, its a joke.

 

Then you have the coastal commission which is technically an illegal body telling cities/counties what they can and cant do along the coast.

 

If there is an excess resource within this country and a system to move that resource then it should be investigated.

[RichardJensen]

Who, though, gets to determine whether the Great Lakes are an 'excess' resource?

[mettech]

Who, though, gets to determine whether the Great Lakes are an 'excess' resource?

 

The Courts.

[mettech]

could we have a civil war over water?

 

would the great lake states leave the union? or be annexed by Canada.

 

I know it far fetched, but these are uncertain times.

 

If my memory serves me correctly, the Indiana and Kentucky boarder on the Ohio river was or still is in dispute.

 

Wars have been started over simpler items then this.. :shades:

[Biker16]

The Courts.

which is why it is very important for the great lakes states colectivly agree not to allow the export of the water.

[robertlane]

All you need to do is press Michigan for their water supply and they will roll right over as we have a bunch of jackasses in Lansing.

 

As for the citizens of Michigan and Wisconsin, I can't image us approving sending water to the friggin desert. . .unless it's in 12oz bottles.

 

You mean there shouldn't be things like this:

 

 

in a desert?

 

I've never been to Las Vegas, and I hope that I never go. I find things like this disgusting.

 

This was my FIRST thought. I was just there and amazed how much water they actually waste.

[xr7g428]

I live in Arizona and even I think sending water from the great lakes to the southwest is stupid. All this really is, is a promise by a politician to take something from the rightful owners, and give it to someone else in order to buy votes.

 

In order to develop anything in Maricopa county (Phoenix metroplex) you have to have a proven 100 year water supply. Great progress has been made in water conservation and recycling. A desalinization plant was built, but never put on line as it was not needed, I am sure that many more will be built, as the need arises. Ultimately, the solution should be an economic one. The price of water in the desert will rise enough to make it either impossible to live here, or alternative sources feasible.

 

We need a new term to describe the environmental fascists that we have out here. To call them environmentalists is like calling Al Queda peace loving muslims. But whatever you call them, they want to remove the dams from the Colorado and other rivers to return the area to the flooding an devastation of the past, all while swigging bottled water for $10 a gallon. And these are the people who support the Bill Richardson's of the world.

 

What puzzles me is the attitude that somehow Michigan and the rust belt are so self sufficient that they need not concern themselves with the rest of the country. Fascinating. Pioneer, I hope for your sake that your customers do not read your comments. You have done much to ratify the general public's negative attitude toward the average UAW auto worker. Since I left the automotive business I have really had my eyes opened towards attitudes about the industry. It is not a pretty picture. People are concerned about where their money goes. They really do think about it, but as it turns out, before nationalistic interests, they put gratitude. They would like to give the money to people who care about their work, people who are grateful for the opportunity. They just can't believe a bunch of angry, unhappy, self-entitled workers, are going to ever build better products than people who want their jobs. So when you tell California to drop off into the ocean, don't be surprised when they don't buy your "buy American" pleas.

Edited October 15, 2007 by xr7g428

[OAC_Sparky]

You have done much to ratify the general public's negative attitude toward the average UAW auto worker. Since I left the automotive business I have really had my eyes opened towards attitudes about the industry. It is not a pretty picture. People are concerned about where their money goes. They really do think about it, but as it turns out, before nationalistic interests, they put gratitude. They would like to give the money to people who care about their work, people who are grateful for the opportunity. They just can't believe a bunch of angry, unhappy, self-entitled workers, are going to ever build better products than people who want their jobs. So when you tell California to drop off into the ocean, don't be surprised when they don't buy your "buy American" pleas.

Why does Pioneer's point of view have to represent the "UAW worker's view"? If Pioneer was black or Jewish, would that mean that all blacks and Jews are against California? I'm sure many non-union Michiganders don't give a rat's ass about California as well.

 

Give your head a shake. It's a "person's" opinion, not that of a whole group.

 

(PS. I'm a CAW worker, so if you want, you can misinterpret this as all CAW workers are wanting you to give your head a shake.)

Edited October 15, 2007 by OAC_Sparky

[J-150]

Aren't you funny. I've never understood why countries hate to share resources wit outer parts of the same country. We hate it too, and it seems rather selfish to me.

 

 

Arizona can have Great Lakes water when Michigan can have Arizona winters.

 

Here is a solution according to Sam Kinison:

 

"Don't live in the desert. Live where the food and water is"

[J-150]

Not a viable argument. Technology exists to disperse populations to regions that wouldn't normally support them. I would rather have some space than be living like rodents in the few areas that can actually be self sustaining.

 

 

that is exactly the argument. People to choose to live where humans should not be living.

[fbmphil]

Hey Bill Richardson, go fuck yourself.

 

 

Love,

Michigan

[Deanh]

But your right, it would have to be in set, rationed amounts if it were to work property

I will think of this next time I am in Vegas watching Caesars Palace water show before walking over the street to see the MGM water show in 120 degree heat witnessing SPECTACULAR wretched excessive amounts of evaporation being utilized to entice the willing and able to enter their Gold Plated doors in order to empty their wallets.....

[suv_guy_19]

I will think of this next time I am in Vegas watching Caesars Palace water show before walking over the street to see the MGM water show in 120 degree heat witnessing SPECTACULAR wretched excessive amounts of evaporation being utilized to entice the willing and able to enter their Gold Plated doors in order to empty their wallets.....

 

 

That's why I said that instead of using that water for what they do, they should drink it instead.

[NickF1011]

I will think of this next time I am in Vegas watching Caesars Palace water show before walking over the street to see the MGM water show in 120 degree heat witnessing SPECTACULAR wretched excessive amounts of evaporation being utilized to entice the willing and able to enter their Gold Plated doors in order to empty their wallets.....

 

If there's one thing that I think SHOULD be taxed to all hell (a very odd statement coming from me) it is conspicuous gaudiness like that. I don't mind at all that they do it, but they should have to pay dearly for the privilege.

Edited October 15, 2007 by NickF1011

[Deanh]

That's why I said that instead of using that water for what they do, they should drink it instead.

ONLY if it has a little umbrella.anything else would just not be "civilized'.....

[92merc]

First off, Bill's an idiot. He figures since the lakes are huge, there's plenty of water to take. Great lakes have been low. Shouldn't be taking water from there.

 

But for example, Montana, and Both Dakota's have been in a drought for 8 years now. We have 3 major damns that produce electricity and both are huge fish stocks and recreation. That water could have been conserved, but No... The Corps of Engineers flushed it all downstream for barge traffic. We're now at record lows for the past 3 years. We have such little water, many cities water intakes have been compromised. The Corp has had to pay to extend all those intakes because of their mismanagment.

 

So even though the barge industry has lost less money than the recreation industry has in our 3 states alone, the Corp screwed up and flushed all the water down river, and the barge industry is now stuck with short seasons anyway. Nothing was gained. More was lost than gained.

 

Plus, the electric generation is one quarter of where it should be. It's clean energy. But now I'm sure those that should have gotten that electricity are whining they can't power their dildos...

[Pioneer]

Pioneer, I hope for your sake that your customers do not read your comments.

 

WTF does mine being an autoworker have to do with the debate on water.

 

That's right, absolutely nothing. If anything, you should be stereotyping my attitude with Michigan residents. But, just because you chose to stereotype my comments with anything shows your lack of intelligence.

[RichardJensen]

The Corps of Engineers flushed it all downstream for barge traffic.

Ah yes. The Corps of Engineers......

 

Remember the big debate over the Master Manual? Something like five years of hearings, arguments, lawsuits, editorials, pontifications, and all they did at the end of it was say, "We're going to keep doing what we're doing."

 

OTOH, remember how fast the dams filled up in the mid 90s? Could happen again. Right now E. SD is getting -dumped- on. We must have 6" over the last 3 weeks.