Edstock Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 The C1 has a tiny bit more shoulder and hip room - That's all!Apart from that - it looks great!! ......ST170-2 Focus (C1 Focus) Width: 67.9 (72.3) Interesting that the US car is 4.4" wider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 The golden rule is build the volume sellers locally and import all your specials. In AUST, Focus Coupe Cabriolet sells for $43K and Turbo Focus ST sells for $36K allowing for the big jump in AUS-USA prices, I'd say: Focus CC in the USA - $30K!!! Turbo Focus ST in the USA - $25K! True the specials don't add much to volume but the really add to profit! Not waking up the C170-2 Vs C1 thing but here's the difference, The C1 has a tiny bit more shoulder and hip room - That's all! Apart from that - it looks great!! ......ST170-2 Focus (C1 Focus) Length: 175 (176.7) Width: 67.9 (72.3) Height: 58.6 (56.8) Wheelbase: 102.9 (103.9) Track Front: 58.6 (60.4) Track Rear: 58.1 (60.3) Leg Room Front: 41.7 (41.6) Leg Room Rear: 36.1 (35.7) Shoulder Room Front: 53.5 (55.5) Shoulder Room Rear: 53.7 (54.4) Head Room Front: 39.2 (39.2) Head Room Rear: 38.3 Hip Room Front: 50.4 (52.4) Hip Room Rear: 50.9 (51.9) the big piece of info you are missing is WEIGHT - the C1 is heavy compared to the C170. anyways - Good job Ford - you did this one right .... let's keep moving it ahead and finally merge the 2 threads once again...with the FOE demand for Wagon and hatches, and FNA demand for sedans and coupes - you can rest assured the MkIII will have the widest array of bodies available to date. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManFord Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) Wow. I didn't realize how close the Focus was getting to the Corolla's sales! :happy feet: Yeah, and don't forget its a newly redesigned Corolla too.... Edited April 15, 2008 by ManFord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) Hell basically everyone is growing small car sales right now. The new Focus actually does look ok on the road, and I've noticed quite a few, but it's "out of the park" success is directly attributable to both it's predecessor's failure (low bar is set) in conjunction with the market's move to small cars (GAS prices). Any other reading of this sales data is just irrational enthusiasm. Well GM isn't doing very well with small cars right now so there has to be more to it then just having good fuel economy. Edited April 15, 2008 by 2005Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 As much as I don't like the new Civic, it does look cohesive and new, where the Focus looks dated, and like ten different people designed 10 different parts of the car and never communicated with eachother. No its not in cohesive. I thought so at first too, but I see a lot of them and now I realize how well the design flows all the way along the side. From front to back it fits as you watch it go by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Well GM isn't doing very well with small cars right now so there has to be more to it then just having good fuel economy. There you go, how well is Saturn's Astra doing? At what cost is GM importing this vehicle to sell at minuscule prices and unintentionally low volumes? The car rags may bemoan the Focus but I'd assert that part of the anti-Focus culture is just part of the group think within our small community of non consumers. I get so much positive feedback from the Focus, my whole family wants to buy one and trade in their gas hogs. So few even considers the Focus ugly and are amazed to hear me say such a thing! It's a vehicle that came along at the right time and it's being marketed very smartly thanks to Sync. The Focus is so desirable that you can buy a Focus and Fusion I4 for the same price thanks to the rebates required to keep the Fusion moving. Now I am hesitant to heep kudos on the Focus because this may turn out to be a momentary trend related to Sync and the recent marketing onslaught. This is not the case for the other small cars like the Civic which carry their own momentum. The Focus will still need continued and substantive marketing and product updates to keep it going. No more stops, stalls, and rethinks or they will continue to see expensive fluctuations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 So if it looked good, not like a steamy turd, had more body options available, and was on a better chassis, that wouldn't have helped sales???Please no responses from the juvenile trolls.. Well, 'good' is a matter of opinion, given the space-ship Civic is also selling well. I doubt that a C1 looking Focus would register with the market. As far as 'better chassis' goes, that's, at this point, 6 of one, half a dozen of another. It's not as though C1 was a radical departure from C170. Odds are 99 out of 100 drivers couldn't tell the difference in ride/handling, and for that 1%, well, there's your 1% boost in sales, if the thing were on C1. Concerning bodystyle options... You might have something there, but given the fact THIS Focus is a huge hit, compared to the outgoing model in the same way that the new Escape has been a standout, one is led to the conclusion that Ford's market research on these models was close to spot-on. Meaning the same research that said this look would sell determined that a 3-door and a wagon wouldn't pay for themselves. So yeah, you might get a more than trivial boost in volume, but it might raise havoc with the program's budget. Bottom line, as much as I dislike the looks of this thing, Ford apparently got it about as close to spot-on as they could get. I don't think C1 looks would HELP, I don't think C1 chassis would make anything more than a trivial difference in sales (real benefit is in cost savings, IMO), and I don't think 3-door + station wagon would boost sales enough to pay for the special tooling required to stamp them (not to mention all the different welds, engineering challenges for radically different body styles, etc.). I guess that was asking too much, Blueblood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) the big piece of info you are missing is WEIGHT - the C1 is heavy compared to the C170. Igor Why do you think Ford puts all that extra weight into a car going into a fuel economy sensitive market? Answer: Because they have to. You could say the same thing about Mondeo Vs Fusion. You'll find the basic safty cells of of the newer Euro cars is far superior to the superceeded Americans. Otherwise, why are we all going to C1 and Global CD platforms? Edited April 15, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) Well that was all because of their mistake they made, the consumer shouldn't suffer because of the beancounters. And if they had just used the car they alreadty had what would have cost more this time? How would a hatch and wagon which were alreay in production cost more to keep making then making an all new design with the 2 door? Looks like they spent more to get less to me. OTOH, "he who fights and runs away will live to fight another day." Consumer, ultimately, has choices abridged by what turns a profit. For stuff like cars at least. For smaller items (cafe press books leaps to mind), you can serve the 'long tail' of previously unprofitable customer demand. It would cost $X to engineer a hatch and wagon that looked substantially different. And unlike the coupe, they would not share, basically, a similar side stamping, and similar superstructure. Strip off the sheetmetal of the coupe and sedan, and you're left with very similar structures. Not so the hatch & wagon. Side stampings would be totally different as well. There would be significant costs involved in engineering a hatch and wagon. Because Ford opted out of C1, all of the costs of those differences would have to be recouped solely by Ford NA volume between 2008 & 2011. And Ford has to be disciplined about investments like that in order to get to the point where they can sell C2 here. Edited April 15, 2008 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Why do you think Ford puts all that extra weight into a car going into a fuel economy sensitive market?Answer: Because they have to. You could say the same thing about Mondeo Vs Fusion. You'll find the basic safty cells of of the newer Euro cars is far superior to the superceeded Americans. Otherwise, why are we all going to C1 and Global CD platforms? well that might be, but they are still too heavy - the Fusion crash tests very well - on par with anything else on the market - so addinf 300lbs for "better safety" seems unjustified. The C1 is heavier, because its front is stiffer, and it is larger (wider). And the US platforms are being discarded because 1) the EU platforms are MUCH closer to GLOBAL status already, and 2) also much closer to FoMoCo universal status (with Volvo and Mazda on board), and 3) more modern with worthy improvements in flexibility, handling, refinement, etc. However they are still overweight - and as Ford indicated, they plan on changing that by shaving at least 250lbs from every car they make. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 However they are still overweight - and as Ford indicated, they plan on changing that by shaving at least 250lbs from every car they make. Igor That's good to hear. Weight is the bane of performance and fuel economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 However they are still overweight - and as Ford indicated, they plan on changing that by shaving at least 250lbs from every car they make. Igor Probably why Dearborn is in charge again - Hope they get it right this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) Focus --------------- January 11,600 +44% February 16,302 +10.2% March 21,168 +24% Kia Spectra ------------------ March 8,022 +41% Jan-Mar (Q1) 18,013 +24% Though it's definitely good news for Ford that the Focus is starting to move, the above data suggests the sales uptick has more to do with the overall sh*tty state of the economy (i.e. people needing new wheels, but less $$$ to buy them with), AND the huge increases in the cost of gas, than with the stellar engineering and styling of it. In boom times with cheaper gas, the Focus would probably be languishing on lots, along with other makes of small cars. -Ovaltine Edited April 15, 2008 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Focus segment share is up, ergo it's not =just= changing preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theVengineguy Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 (edited) I'm still lost on this concept of what defines an outdated platform. C170 Focus is 4 wheel independent, has rack and pinion steering, and it handels decent. I would call it outdated if it had a monoleaf suspension. A couple of teaks such as body color matching the 2 bars on the grill, ditching the fake stick on fender vents, changing up the rear wing (Ditch that cheap looking Chevy Cobalt wing), would make the car a little more palatable. Interior is top notch, no complaints in that department. 2.0L is a good base engine, however I would like Ford to at least offer an upgrade. 2.5L would be a nice addition, I would even fore go a six speed in favor of 5 speed to reduce complexity. I'm sure the 2.5L will have a broad enough torque cure where an extra gear wouldn't be worth it. Edited April 16, 2008 by theVengineguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibinubu12 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 I'm still lost on this concept of what defines an outdated platform. C170 Focus is 4 wheel independent, has rack and pinion steering, and it handels decent. I would call it outdated if it had a monoleaf suspension. A couple of teaks such as body color matching the 2 bars on the grill, ditching the fake stick on fender vents, changing up the rear wing (Ditch that cheap looking Chevy Cobalt wing), would make the car a little more palatable. Interior is top notch, no complaints in that department. 2.0L is a good base engine, however I would like Ford to at least offer an upgrade. 2.5L would be a nice addition, I would even fore go a six speed in favor of 5 speed to reduce complexity. I'm sure the 2.5L will have a broad enough torque cure where an extra gear wouldn't be worth it. Ford wouldn't do wrong to add the T5 engine to the Focus and make a US market Focus ST. I am NOT defending the "Ford Europe is teh best" people, and I will quickly defend the US Focus, but I don't see why the European Focus ST couldn't be imported as a low volume car. They could even call it SVT if they still want to revive the SVT name. If Volvo can sell a C30 for $22,950, I don't see why a non-luxury C30 (Focus ST) couldn't be here for $19,950 or so (right below Mustang and 3-5k above the top US Focus). Also, they could just take a black Focus, replace all the chrome with black plastic, and install the 2.5 T5 as a "sport" Focus like the Fusion Sport Appearance Package and the Edge Sport, but with an actual performance upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 We always get the....."bu bu bu bu, Ford needs to bring the C1 chassis to the NA market place to replace the C170 blah blah blah" I say since the Mazda3, Mazda5 and Volvo S40 are here in NA....we have the best of both worlds. C170_2 is a great revamp of an already good design.....C1 Global is already here...enjoy them both. Maybe with the huge success of Focus....Ford will expand the (C170_2) line to include a wagon/CUV variant. All I know is that Ford needed this "shot in the arm", lets just hope they don't repeat past mistakes and walk away from it. With only 2-3 years until the new Focus (and platform) arrives, I doubt another vehicle based on the C-170-2 would be developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManFord Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 (edited) Focus--------------- January 11,600 +44% February 16,302 +10.2% March 21,168 +24% Kia Spectra ------------------ March 8,022 +41% Jan-Mar (Q1) 18,013 +24% Though it's definitely good news for Ford that the Focus is starting to move, the above data suggests the sales uptick has more to do with the overall sh*tty state of the economy (i.e. people needing new wheels, but less $$$ to buy them with), AND the huge increases in the cost of gas, than with the stellar engineering and styling of it. In boom times with cheaper gas, the Focus would probably be languishing on lots, along with other makes of small cars. -Ovaltine If that were the case, then the Cobalt wouldn't have been down last month. Neither would the newly-redesigned Corolla.....(for last month down 21.3% and the year down 23%). Sentra is also down for the year, just barely though... Edited April 16, 2008 by ManFord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 (edited) No, Ovaltine is spot on: * Chevy Cobalt: Down 23.8% * Dodge Caliber: Up 10% * Ford Focus: Up 24% * Honda Civic: Up 18.3% * Honda Fit: Up 73.8% * Hyundai Elantra: Up 11.1% * Kia Spectra: Up 41.3% * Mitsubishi Lancer: Up 32.7% * Nissan Sentra: Up 21.4% * Nissan Versa: Up 34.2% * Toyota Corolla: Down 21.3% * Toyota Yaris: Up 83.2% * VW Jetta: Up 19.7% Give it a rest people. It's not because of the redesign. Edited April 16, 2008 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 No, Ovaltine is spot on: * Chevy Cobalt: Down 23.8% * Dodge Caliber: Up 10% * Ford Focus: Up 24% * Honda Civic: Up 18.3% * Honda Fit: Up 73.8% * Hyundai Elantra: Up 11.1% * Kia Spectra: Up 41.3% * Mitsubishi Lancer: Up 32.7% * Nissan Sentra: Up 21.4% * Nissan Versa: Up 34.2% * Toyota Corolla: Down 21.3% (mainly due to the changeover to the 2009 model) * Toyota Yaris: Up 83.2% * VW Jetta: Up 19.7% Give it a rest people, it's hardly because of the redesign. But part of it can be attributed to the redesign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Interesting that the US car is 4.4" wider. Thankyou for the gentle prod, I mixed up the figures- Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 I'm still lost on this concept of what defines an outdated platform. The proper term is Superceeded The C1 Focus design Superceeds C170. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 ... the above data suggests the sales uptick has more to do with the overall sh*tty state of the economy (i.e. people needing new wheels, but less $$$ to buy them with)... Whereas I read that the average transaction price on the Focus is up $2000/vehicle this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 (edited) I think it's funny that people are still continuing to argue about the Focus' looks. If looks truly sold a car, Toyota would have been out of business years ago. Toyota had some great looking cars in the mid 1990s (Camry, Supra, among others). Now they produce worthless clone cars like the Camry which looks like a punched-in-the-face Rosie O'Donnel (no wonder its rear end is huge). This Focus is targeted at people right around my age. I'm surprised about how much buzz I hear about both the Ford Focus and Sync at my univesity. And I don't even think that Ford has targeted my university through a marketing campaign. Ford definitely got this one right, in my opinion. The reason I say this is because Ford wasn't even on the radar screen of most college students 3 years ago. Now people think it is cool ... Perceptions are hard to change on anybody, but at least some people my age haven't had the unpleasant experience of owning a piece of junk 1990s Ford sedan for the past 10 years like many baby boomers. If Volvo can sell a C30 for $22,950, I don't see why a non-luxury C30 (Focus ST) couldn't be here for $19,950 or so (right below Mustang and 3-5k above the top US Focus). I might agree with you if Volvo was actually selling any of the C30s that are on their lots. Sales are very slow. By the way, in case anybody missed it, Ford Focus increased its marketshare so that means that this is NOT likely just a trend related to changing preferences. If it was, sales across the board would be up, but Focus' marketshare would stay about the same. It has increased quite a bit, and the small car segment is extremely competitive as evidenced by the long list provided above. Edited April 16, 2008 by SVT_MAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 If looks truly sold a car, Toyota would have been out of business years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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