What happened to the LS

[fordtech1]

I know this may have been discussed in the past. But with all the talks of developing a RWD vehicle, why did they kill it and not just update it?

I personaly like the LS. The first couple of years were troublesome, but they were fun to drive and were 1000 times better than a Catera. They handled good.

My only real complaint was it needed to be stretched. Not enough leg room in the back seat.

 

I talked my mom into looking at a 03 fully loaded LS and she loved it. She kept it for 5 years, (which is a very long time for her) and misses it at times.

She drove a 03 CTS and liked the LS alot more.

 

I am currently working on a 00 Jag S-type and even though they look identical on the lift, to me the interior in the LS is much better.

 

 

I am sure someone on here has the answer. Maybe it was cost. Maybe because they knew Jag was going to be someone elses.

[RichardJensen]

It was an expensive platform to begin with.

 

Jaguar engineers didn't like it because they wanted Ford to run their company like a charity (and who can blame them? Jaguar had been run like a charity for full 30 years before that).

 

Execs at Lincoln had visions of turning DEW98 into a Sigma style platform, with products based off it.

 

However, the vehicle was far too different from what Lincoln customers expected, and there wasn't sufficient anticipated demand to justify ongoing investment when other passenger car programs were far more important (CD3 & D3) to Ford's overall success. And as mentioned before, Jag engineers bristled at sharing ANYTHING significant with other Ford products.

 

So, basically, it was a good car in a vacuum, but:

 

1) Jaguar people didn't like it

2) Lincoln dealers didn't know what to do with it

3) Ford execs couldn't justify ongoing investment in it.

Edited January 15, 2009 by RichardJensen

[Michael Reynolds]

I often wonder the same thing. It seems to me that Ford was half commited to DEW once they discovered that it wasn't economical to utilize it for the Mustang.

[wescoent]

Also... Lincoln needed an AWD platform.

 

D3 could support it, DEW98 could not.

[fordtech1]

It was an expensive platform to begin with.

 

Jaguar engineers didn't like it because they wanted Ford to run their company like a charity (and who can blame them? Jaguar had been run like a charity for full 30 years before that).

 

Execs at Lincoln had visions of turning DEW98 into a Sigma style platform, with products based off it.

 

However, the vehicle was far too different from what Lincoln customers expected, and there wasn't sufficient anticipated demand to justify ongoing investment when other passenger car programs were far more important (CD3 & D3) to Ford's overall success. And as mentioned before, Jag engineers bristled at sharing ANYTHING significant with other Ford products.

 

So, basically, it was a good car in a vacuum, but:

 

1) Jaguar people didn't like it

2) Lincoln dealers didn't know what to do with it

3) Ford execs couldn't justify ongoing investment in it.

 

 

 

That makes since, but the LS and S-type are so different. Most people if they werent told, would not have a clue they were twins.

I think alot of the bad customer experiences customers received when they came out was that Ford techs and Ford Hotline didn't know how to fix them. They are very complicated vehicles.

 

Wonder where JAG would have been had Ford not helped their quailty as much as they did. Especially in the electrical department. I would think sharing one platform would be the least Jag could do considering how many Billions of dollars they cost Ford to stay afloat.

[rkisler]

I know this may have been discussed in the past. But with all the talks of developing a RWD vehicle, why did they kill it and not just update it?

I personaly like the LS. The first couple of years were troublesome, but they were fun to drive and were 1000 times better than a Catera. They handled good.

My only real complaint was it needed to be stretched. Not enough leg room in the back seat.

 

I talked my mom into looking at a 03 fully loaded LS and she loved it. She kept it for 5 years, (which is a very long time for her) and misses it at times.

She drove a 03 CTS and liked the LS alot more.

 

I am currently working on a 00 Jag S-type and even though they look identical on the lift, to me the interior in the LS is much better.

 

 

I am sure someone on here has the answer. Maybe it was cost. Maybe because they knew Jag was going to be someone elses.

 

The LS came up to a key juncture where it needed a significant upgrade. At the time, Lincoln had been spun off as part of Ford's Premier Automotive Group, and they had a separate engineering activity and a separate budget for vehicle investment. So, you would have thought we would have had a nice update, and that was the base plan.

 

But it didn't work out that way.

 

The plan was to create a new LS, LS+, and an "FX45-type" utility (think similar to Cadillac's RWD plan). But a number of factors caused the program to fail. First, at that point, there was very little sharing with Jaguar S-Type and XJ, so there wasn't a good volume driver for components. Second, Wixom was a hell hole in terms of cost, and an all-new flexible plant (like Cadillac's Lansing plant) was not in the cards. Third, as Richard mentions, cost was an issue. Fourth, the architecture needed to be revised for AWD. Fifth, the designers (Jerry McGovern) had a "my way or the highway" attitude that drove product change where it wasn't necessary. And on and on.

 

In the end, the program just collapsed of its own weight, and Ford had to hastily set up a Lincoln differentiation program using Ford products as the base. That's one of the reasons the Zephyr had such little differentiation vs. the Fusion -- there wasn't enough time to do anything else.

 

Edit:

By the way, if you want to get an idea of what the updated LS and friends might have looked you need only go look at the Lincoln Navicross show car:

 

Navicross

Edited January 16, 2009 by Austin

[battyr]

The LS failed for marketing reasons (not advertising). They tried to sell a BMW to Lincoln buyers.

 

It shared it's platform with the Jaguar S-type. The platform was too expense for Lincoln buyer, too cheap for Jag buyers. Lincoln buyers wanted more power and more toy's for a cheaper prices. BMW buyers would pay extra for a car that handle this well, but Lincoln buyers would rather have power.

 

The Lincoln MKZ is a lot cheaper to build and likely makes a lot more profit.

 

You can see why Ford got rid of Jaguar. If they can't share platforms with them, then what is the point of owning them.

[rkisler]

Also... Lincoln needed an AWD platform.

 

D3 could support it, DEW98 could not.

 

AWD was not included in the original DEW architecture. It was possible, but it would have cost a bundle -- similar to the way Mercedes added AWD to the E-Class. Takeoff in the rear of the trans; transfer box; shaft under the engine (through the oil pan), etc. Lots of changes.

[fordtech1]

The LS failed for marketing reasons (not advertising). They tried to sell a BMW to Lincoln buyers.

 

It shared it's platform with the Jaguar S-type. The platform was too expense for Lincoln buyer, too cheap for Jag buyers. Lincoln buyers wanted more power and more toy's for a cheaper prices. BMW buyers would pay extra for a car that handle this well, but Lincoln buyers would rather have power.

 

The Lincoln MKZ is a lot cheaper to build and likely makes a lot more profit.

 

You can see why Ford got rid of Jaguar. If they can't share platforms with them, then what is the point of owning them.

 

Its such a shame. I really like the LS. Im keeping my eye out for a good deal on a fully loaded 06.

I think the LS is a more of a lincoln than the MKZ. Don't get me wrong, the MKZ is a nice car its just not the LS.

 

Now the MKS is a nice car. Just wish it was a bit sportier.

[rmc523]

Now the MKS is a nice car. Just wish it was a bit sportier.

 

What about the EcoBoost model?

[fordtech1]

What about the EcoBoost model?

 

Im sure thats going to be awesome as far as power. I just hope they put some kind of nice clean sporty wheels and maybe lower valances like the edge sport. Something along the lines of the LSE edition LS or edge sport coming out. Something like they did with the SHO. But just dont over do it and make it tacky or under do it like a aerostar "sport" and just add a pinstripe and running boards. lol (yes I know they won't put running boards on a MKS).

 

I like larger cars. I am 6'3 so I need leg room. But I like sportier cars with lots of luxury gadgets. The LS was the closest thing for the money (used ofcourse and except rear leg room)

[battyr]

A friend of mine always brags how his Honda always blows away anyone who drives a Lincoln LS.

[Stentgraft95]

Its such a shame. I really like the LS. Im keeping my eye out for a good deal on a fully loaded 06.

I think the LS is a more of a lincoln than the MKZ. Don't get me wrong, the MKZ is a nice car its just not the LS.

 

Now the MKS is a nice car. Just wish it was a bit sportier.

 

 

Ahh, where do I begin with the LS? I bought a used 2000 that later proved to be a rebuild from a near total but I loved the car's ride. I got rid of it because it had tons of issues so like a fool I bought a brand new 03 LS. I still have this car and it has caused me no problems aside from regular maintenance. My problem with the car is that my wife won't let me get a fiesta or new focus, fusion, MKZ, or anything else I want untill this thing needs replaced. It shows no signs of dying and I bet I have this car another 4 or 5 years. I love this car and I told a working coleague just the other day that I always look forward to driving this car. This is the best car I've ever bought and I've been true-blue Ford since 89' Our most recent purchase was an 07 Black/Red Shelby GT500 but I love my LS V8. No door dings, 56000 miles, paid off, and no problems. My wife gets the next new one and she won't sway from an Edge even after I showed her the new Taurus, which she liked.

 

Stent

[theoldwizard]

Its such a shame. I really like the LS. Im keeping my eye out for a good deal on a fully loaded 06.

If you can find one with a V6 and a 5 speed, they are dirt cheap!

I think the LS is a more of a lincoln than the MKZ. Don't get me wrong, the MKZ is a nice car its just not the LS.

I agree.

 

Bottom line (like always) was cost. Big profit margin on MKZ.

[fordtech1]

A friend of mine always brags how his Honda always blows away anyone who drives a Lincoln LS.

Its still a Honda. I dont understand people that have Camaros and mustangs that they have ragged out and put all the BS performance mods and say. Its faster than a Vette or Porsche etc.... Its Still a Honda, Its Still a Mustang, Its still a Camaro.....

These people kill me. "its so fast" but it has stock suspension and brakes. So its fairly fast in the straights but it cant turn or stop. All I say is Man I am impressed.

[zipnzap]

The S-type was at least a moderate success for Jaguar, wasn't it? The Ford Thunderbird was also based on the DEW, correct? Also, isn't the DEW also being used for the Jaguar XF?

[ANTAUS]

I'm on my 3rd LS V8, I had a 00, 03 and 05 and I usually replace them at 100K miles, all were faultless, and my current one just is about 50K which is half of where I usually would be (everything I do is within 4 miles). I really don't have an option of the next vehicle to jump to. Everything I see a Ford in the horizon, somehow when it materializes, its not what I seek. I'm not sure how much I can hold out for another viable product. I'm still waiting for a spin on an Egoboost MKS to see what my opinion is, but I'm already dissapointed with the basic one. In other words, I really have no other Ford option to purchase again. I can only hope...

[rkisler]

I'm on my 3rd LS V8, I had a 00, 03 and 05 and I usually replace them at 100K miles, all were faultless, and my current one just is about 50K which is half of where I usually would be (everything I do is within 4 miles). I really don't have an option of the next vehicle to jump to. Everything I see a Ford in the horizon, somehow when it materializes, its not what I seek. I'm not sure how much I can hold out for another viable product. I'm still waiting for a spin on an Egoboost MKS to see what my opinion is, but I'm already dissapointed with the basic one. In other words, I really have no other Ford option to purchase again. I can only hope...

 

I too had 3 LS's and I believe it's the finest car Ford has ever made. And I really miss the AJ V8 which was also in a class by itself (but let down by a so-so 5-speed auto).

 

I now have an MKS. Nice car, but too big. The car was set up around h-point (seating position) for good entry/egress. But that drives the whole car higher making it around 3" taller than the S Class Merc with essentially the same overall length. This car is massive and looks out-of-scale in the parking lot. It doesn't drive poorly, but with the typical FWD weight distribution, it has understeer the LS never had. Make sure you take a good test drive before you commit.

 

Still, it's a good trip car with the exception of the mail slot trunk. Lots of amenities, drives confidently, quiet, relatively decent fuel economy.

[ANTAUS]

Thats what I've encountered with the MKS, while the trunk is huge, it's hard to stick anything in because the cut-out is so small, caused by the rear window and this fascination of stylists wanting to make sedans, look like coupes. Simply put, I have these rubbermaid bins that I need to transport at times for my volunteer organization, and there's no possible way I can put that in an MKS, and worse...rear seat doesn't fold down. As minimal as that may be, that has a few big "X" on that regard. Then when sitting in the front seat, I'm used to the LS have great outward visibility with a short low cowl line, and good sight lines all around...in the MKS I'm peering out the short front windsheild, as those I'm in some bathtubs. At least the FWD issue was resolve with permanent AWD on the Egoboost, so thats one of my beefs cured. But then I hear all this techno stuff coming out in the SHO, and I'm not reading it coming out on the MKS. So essentially, by the time it's phased in, the MKS will be on its 3rd year, and I'll have a new looking car for a year before it's updated, then I have a "outdated" car soon after. Urrrr, I hate these half assed launches...

[suv_guy_19]

I have these rubbermaid bins that I need to transport at times for my volunteer organization, and there's no possible way I can put that in an MKS,

 

 

Did you actually try or are you just guessing? The opening looks small, but you would be surprised what can fit through it.

[ANTAUS]

I tried, there was no possible way. I took everything out and used one of those "half bins" of the same rubbermaid stuff...no luck either. Used one that was skinnier but shorter, no luck, I would have to squeeze it through. I would have to take everything out, put it in 6 milk crates, to make it work. Case in point, thats too much involved. I've been able to stick these bins in everything from a friends Saturn L300, to a Camry, to a Mazda6 without any issues. The MKS' 19cu.ft. might be good to have, but if it's more than I think it was 14-16inches of a cut out, then I cant. And I can't squeeze it into the rear seat because the doors do not open wide enough, and I have to make that "turn" to get it in there, and since I cant lower the rear seat, I'm essentially "scraping" the leather on the seats and door trim, to get it in there. (these bins are usually on the floor collecting grime). yet on my LS with 13.5cu.ft. , I just drop it in and as long as I avoid the goose-neck hinges and center it, I'm fine and do not even have to push it to close it.

 

This is the bin in question LINK. and even the smaller "cousins" do not fit on the MKS as I mentioned.

[rmc523]

Im sure thats going to be awesome as far as power. I just hope they put some kind of nice clean sporty wheels and maybe lower valances like the edge sport. Something along the lines of the LSE edition LS or edge sport coming out. Something like they did with the SHO. But just dont over do it and make it tacky or under do it like a aerostar "sport" and just add a pinstripe and running boards. lol (yes I know they won't put running boards on a MKS).

 

I like larger cars. I am 6'3 so I need leg room. But I like sportier cars with lots of luxury gadgets. The LS was the closest thing for the money (used ofcourse and except rear leg room)

 

Here's the MKS EB:

 

http://jalopnik.com/5129053/2010-lincoln-m...omes-to-the-mks

[Justdatdude]

If you can find one with a V6 and a 5 speed, they are dirt cheap!

 

I agree.

 

Bottom line (like always) was cost. Big profit margin on MKZ.

 

Well of course it has big profit its cheap to build and you can tell by just looking at the outside of the mkz. I own a 03 ls from the electronic parking brake and rain sensing wipe(even though they can act crazy under heavy rain) an electronic brake is not even offered on any current lincoln but its offered on an older lincoln that makes no sense. I am excited about all the new products and believe they are a step in the right the direction they just need to take that extra step that you some how feel in the ls

[ANTAUS]

Oh I made a comment here once about "the most technologically advanced MKS has a push-pedal break", and the flaming started lol It was called a gadget, a gizmo, etc.etc Like if power windows weren't coupled into that mix... So I'm not touching that one either. The MKS makes up with having other toys as well, its just a shame about the electronic parking brake because thats something I use on a daily basis on drive-thrus.

[FordBuyer]

It was an expensive platform to begin with.

 

Jaguar engineers didn't like it because they wanted Ford to run their company like a charity (and who can blame them? Jaguar had been run like a charity for full 30 years before that).

 

Execs at Lincoln had visions of turning DEW98 into a Sigma style platform, with products based off it.

 

However, the vehicle was far too different from what Lincoln customers expected, and there wasn't sufficient anticipated demand to justify ongoing investment when other passenger car programs were far more important (CD3 & D3) to Ford's overall success. And as mentioned before, Jag engineers bristled at sharing ANYTHING significant with other Ford products.

 

So, basically, it was a good car in a vacuum, but:

 

1) Jaguar people didn't like it

2) Lincoln dealers didn't know what to do with it

3) Ford execs couldn't justify ongoing investment in it.

 

To make it simple, how about not enough sales. Ford has shown over the years that it has little patience for vehicles that don't sell well. Ford has a big burial ground of fallen brands.