ToBeHuman Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 The wonder-system is in jeopardy, though, thanks to the departure of Joseph Berry, a senior Ford engineer. Mr. Berry is is currently in discussions with Ford over pending patents that Ford has filed for SYNC technology. He claims that he came up with much of the technology covered by these patents, which he is named as an inventor on, before he came to the company. The technology covered by these patents drives many of the features that drive SYNC. According to the Detroit News, Mr. Berry has been approached by other automakers looking to license the technology to make legal "SYNC-clones" of their own. Article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Well, I guess that shoots the whole "Sync is just Blue and Me" hypothesis out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyalbutconcerned Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Just wondering now much his discussions with GM has to do with him initiating these claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 "He claims that he came up with much of the technology covered by these patents, which he is named as an inventor on, before he came to the company." well how much of the tech did "he" come up with while working AT ford? cause iirc anything he developed while at ford are the property of ford not him. maybe there are parts of the tech that is required for the system to operate that belong to ford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 "He claims that he came up with much of the technology covered by these patents, which he is named as an inventor on, before he came to the company." well how much of the tech did "he" come up with while working AT ford? cause iirc anything he developed while at ford are the property of ford not him. maybe there are parts of the tech that is required for the system to operate that belong to ford? I'm a bit confused about it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown25 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Everyone I know who developed patents working at ford were entitled a generous royalty agreement although did not own the patent. He may have "the idea", but did Ford prototype and fund the idea? If they did I doubt it his suit will stand up in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Wow, what a sticky IP issue. If he has any documentation of ideas or concepts before he consulted at Ford, he is holding a strong hand. Could this turn into the "interval wiper" thing of the new milenium? But I hope for a quiet resolution, as the industry does not need more waves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 You have to love Patent Law in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Well, I guess that shoots the whole "Sync is just Blue and Me" hypothesis out of the water. I was surprised at how many third parties were involved. I though Microsoft owned almost all of the technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 "He claims that he came up with much of the technology covered by these patents, which he is named as an inventor on, before he came to the company." Bootom line is, who is the patent assigned to. If it is Ford, he does not have a claim. If it is him, I don't think Ford will be able to pull another Flash of Genius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) Everyone I know who developed patents working at ford were entitled a generous royalty agreement ... Everyone who works for Ford (including contractors) signs away their right to any work that results in a patent. "Prior art", of course, is excluded in this agreement. The agreement covers item you develop outside of work hours, although Ford is not likely go after non-automotive patents. If a patent is awarded while you are still at Ford you get some small compensation (couple grand). If the patented idea actually goes into production, you get a larger check. Nothing that "generous". It is a one time payment well under 6 figures. Side note: Do you know all new patents are not being issued to Ford Motor Company ? The are issued to some wholly owned subsidiary (can't remember the esact name). (IMHO, this is a master plan to give the family some assets, along with Ford Land, should the Motor Company fail.) Been this way for about 5 years now. Edited September 17, 2009 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Side note: Do you know all new patents are not being issued to Ford Motor Company ? The are issued to some wholly owned subsidiary (can't remember the esact name). (IMHO, this is a master plan to give the family some assets, along with Ford Land, should the Motor Company fail.) Been this way for about 5 years now. Many companies function this way, and it is really a smart business decision. The company I work for leases our buildings from a separate company owned by the same person that owns our company. If the main company goes belly up or is sued for whatever reason, he still has the major assets (the buildings and property). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 From the article, it seems that the issue might be ownership of pending patents that the process was started on before the relationship with Ford started. I am no IP expert, but prior art cannot often be claimed by a later employer. This is why some of us date everything we put on paper or in electronic storage. disclosure dates, filing dates, application dates , etc are all very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Side note: Do you know all new patents are not being issued to Ford Motor Company ? The are issued to some wholly owned subsidiary (can't remember the esact name). (IMHO, this is a master plan to give the family some assets, along with Ford Land, should the Motor Company fail.) Been this way for about 5 years now. Thats a given with the Company being Mortgaged out like it is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Many companies function this way, and it is really a smart business decision. No argument. It is just that these business practices are relatively new. Over that same 5+ tear period all real estate was transferred into Ford Land. (Prior it was a hodge podge of who owned what.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 From the article, it seems that the issue might be ownership of pending patents that the process was started on before the relationship with Ford started. I am no IP expert, but prior art cannot often be claimed by a later employer. This is why some of us date everything we put on paper or in electronic storage. disclosure dates, filing dates, application dates , etc are all very important. if he didnt patent them prior to using his ideas at ford, hes pretty much sol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 if he didnt patent them prior to using his ideas at ford, hes pretty much sol Not necessarily. If there is evidence that the designs in question were developed and documented prior to employment it really does not matter if a patent was issued. It could also be an issue of an application for a patent being filed beforehand, as the process sometimes takes years. Whatever, it will be interesting to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Not necessarily. If there is evidence that the designs in question were developed and documented prior to employment it really does not matter if a patent was issued. It could also be an issue of an application for a patent being filed beforehand, as the process sometimes takes years. Whatever, it will be interesting to watch. Even if he started developing the ideas before working at Ford, if he finished them while on Fords payroll, it would seem to me that they would be Fords patents just because of the employment contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Everyone who works for Ford (including contractors) signs away their right to any work that results in a patent. "Prior art", of course, is excluded in this agreement. The agreement covers item you develop outside of work hours, although Ford is not likely go after non-automotive patents. I never worked for Ford, but at my last company, I was required to list all "prior art" for which I wanted to claim for myself, on the company's patient agreement. Forget to list something, and that ends your prior claim. Plus, I would think that if Joseph Berry voluntarily added any "prior art" into his new or derived work he did while at Ford, then he basically gave it to Ford. I mean, Berry can't add something of his own into a Ford design, and then turn about and claim Ford stole it from him. But patent disputes are all about money, and rarely strive to achieve any sort of fairness. There are no "Patent Police" who enforce rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I agree. This sounds like "how much will you pay me to go away?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 If a patent is awarded while you are still at Ford you get some small compensation (couple grand). If the patented idea actually goes into production, you get a larger check. Nothing that "generous". It is a one time payment well under 6 figures. I must be working for the wrong company. I didn't get anywhere near those numbers for having my name on a patent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Even if he started developing the ideas before working at Ford, if he finished them while on Fords payroll, it would seem to me that they would be Fords patents just because of the employment contract. He would need to "prove" that in a patent court ! Not always easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I must be working for the wrong company. I didn't get anywhere near those numbers for having my name on a patent. For many, many years all you ever got was a free lunch and your picture with some VP. Cash payment for patents at Ford have only been around for about 10 years. Interesting, I personally know 2 people who obtained patents while working at Ford who saw their idea used on non-Ford vehicles. When reported to the Office of General Console, they were told to not worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 But Ford says Sync is a lot bigger than Berry. Though its exclusiveagreement with Microsoft has expired, allowing the software giant tosell the underlying operating system to other carmakers, the Sync nameand many of the features Ford has built on top of that remainproprietary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Look who's back! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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