2011 Mustang GT better then an M3?

[Blue II]

Seeing as the M5 is a 4-door sedan, it is really a stretch to compare it to the GT500. Maybe the M6, isn't that a coupe?

 

Speaking of the 2011 GT500, any idea when we will see any performance tests?

 

How about the M5 against a boosted Coyote in a Falcon? That's enough for now.

[Sixt9coug]

How about the M5 against a boosted Coyote in a Falcon? That's enough for now.

 

 

usdm?

[PREMiERdrum]

usdm?

 

Upcoming GRWD-based Thunderbird sports sedan? :shades:

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Boosted Coyote in a Falcon? Vs. an M5? Hmm, if the "leaked" numbers that were floated around a few weeks ago (barely 10% above the North American Mustang's N/A numbers for it were) then I'm not sold that it will even be close.

 

Now, if those numbers were wrong and they really start with a 5 or more, it's an entirely different story.

 

Granted, we REALLY don't know if there were any power increases for the aluminum 5.4L that's going in the GT500 either. If it's pushing 600+ hp (and comensurate torque) with that weight loss, then it's going to be a SERIOUS ride.

[TomServo92]

Boosted Coyote in a Falcon? Vs. an M5? Hmm, if the "leaked" numbers that were floated around a few weeks ago (barely 10% above the North American Mustang's N/A numbers for it were) then I'm not sold that it will even be close.

 

Now, if those numbers were wrong and they really start with a 5 or more, it's an entirely different story.

 

Granted, we REALLY don't know if there were any power increases for the aluminum 5.4L that's going in the GT500 either. If it's pushing 600+ hp (and comensurate torque) with that weight loss, then it's going to be a SERIOUS ride.

 

As I understand, those numbers are for the base engine not the hi-po version.

Edited April 19, 2010 by TomServo92

[Versa-Tech]

Boosted Coyote in a Falcon? Vs. an M5? Hmm, if the "leaked" numbers that were floated around a few weeks ago (barely 10% above the North American Mustang's N/A numbers for it were) then I'm not sold that it will even be close.

 

Now, if those numbers were wrong and they really start with a 5 or more, it's an entirely different story.

 

Granted, we REALLY don't know if there were any power increases for the aluminum 5.4L that's going in the GT500 either. If it's pushing 600+ hp (and comensurate torque) with that weight loss, then it's going to be a SERIOUS ride.

Not really, it's already traction limited. If the GT500 only had a rear suspension and tire package to match it's power, it would be so much more respectable.

[Reigner92]

:hyper: :happy feet: whoop whoop :happy feet: :hyper:

Edited April 19, 2010 by Reigner92

[jpd80]

Boosted Coyote in a Falcon? Vs. an M5? Hmm, if the "leaked" numbers that were floated around a few weeks ago (barely 10% above the North American Mustang's N/A numbers for it were) then I'm not sold that it will even be close.

 

They didn't want a heavy iron block 6.2 in the front of the Falcon so they went for a

S/C 5.0 that exceeds the power and torque of a 6.2 but has fuel economy like a 5.0.

Edited April 19, 2010 by jpd80

[falcman]

Blue II you're a tease.

 

Power delivery from the blown 5 litre Falcon would be on a totally different level than the highly strung V10, leaving low rpm driveability in the Ford a whole more rewarding. Now, the M5 has 550hp, and is no slouch when the whick is turned right up, and being significantly lighter than said GT-H your remark on this has made my day.

[Project-Fairmont]

20 years ago I would have agreed with most of the sentiment here; the 5.0 is a way better deal than an M3, case closed. Since then however this comparison is not so cut and dry for me.

 

Certainly no one can deny that the new 5.0 represents all that is good with FoMoCo. Just as the 5.0 of the late eighties was an all round great car that represented the leadership of Ford at the time, it is great to see Ford back as a leader - led by the smokin' hot deal that is the new 5.0!

 

The original M3 and the Fox body 5.0 offered similar performance too back in the day; low 14's in the quarter 135 mph top speed. However, you could buy a well equiped 5.0 for around $14k vs. an M3 at $35k! It was easy to dismiss the European back then just as it is today from the perspective of a performance value.

 

However, having owned 5 Mustangs and 5 BMW's I dare say the difference is worth it. If only because BMWs are better day to day. From the seats, to the controls, and ride, BMW simply sweats all the details - and it costs. Its the places were you don't expect it is were BMW shines, nothing is phoney and no corners are cut.

 

I am delighted that the new 5.0 is on top again - and I wil be proud when I see them, and someday I will get one for AutoX. I just don't see myself giving up my little 135 for one though - its finer qualities simply make me feel special.

[silvrsvt]

 

However, having owned 5 Mustangs and 5 BMW's I dare say the difference is worth it. If only because BMWs are better day to day. From the seats, to the controls, and ride, BMW simply sweats all the details - and it costs. Its the places were you don't expect it is were BMW shines, nothing is phoney and no corners are cut.

 

 

 

When was the last time you owned a Mustang? Have you owned a S197 yet? Reason I ask is the difference between a Post 05 Mustang vs a pre 04 Mustang is completely different experience...the S197 is a much better sorted car for every day driving vs the SN95s or Fox bodies. I had a 98 GT and I have a 06 GT now...and the 06 GT has been rock solid for over 76K, even after me doing 10K worth of damage to it nearly 3 years ago. The interior materials could be better, but that has been taken care of since the '10 update.

 

I'm sure the BMW is nice, but is it really 10-15K nicer then a Mustang, besides the ability to show off because of a Euro name plate?

 

 

[Versa-Tech]

And without that dual clutch box the M3 would get flogged.

If the Mustang only came with a 285 rear wheel, the M3 would get flogged

[blksn8k2]

I'm sure you've all heard the old joke about the difference between a procupine and a BMW right?

[Versa-Tech]

When was the last time you owned a Mustang? Have you owned a S197 yet? Reason I ask is the difference between a Post 05 Mustang vs a pre 04 Mustang is completely different experience...the S197 is a much better sorted car for every day driving vs the SN95s or Fox bodies. I had a 98 GT and I have a 06 GT now...and the 06 GT has been rock solid for over 76K, even after me doing 10K worth of damage to it nearly 3 years ago. The interior materials could be better, but that has been taken care of since the '10 update.

 

I'm sure the BMW is nice, but is it really 10-15K nicer then a Mustang, besides the ability to show off because of a Euro name plate?

 

 

Sorry, but I have to agree that the BMW is far more special. The body is gorgeously understated and the interior gives a feeling of luxury without screaming "I'm spoiled". The controls are well sorted, with the exception of iDrive (which sucks). But the most important, and most under-appreciated, aspect is the driving dynamics. Every single instrument of driving input is precise and well balanced. The handling is simply empowering. But I digress...

 

I'm still spending my money on the Mustang.

 

 

 

[Versa-Tech]

I'm sure you've all heard the old joke about the difference between a procupine and a BMW right?

The prick is on the inside

[Project-Fairmont]

When was the last time you owned a Mustang? Have you owned a S197 yet? Reason I ask is the difference between a Post 05 Mustang vs a pre 04 Mustang is completely different experience...the S197 is a much better sorted car for every day driving vs the SN95s or Fox bodies. I had a 98 GT and I have a 06 GT now...and the 06 GT has been rock solid for over 76K, even after me doing 10K worth of damage to it nearly 3 years ago. The interior materials could be better, but that has been taken care of since the '10 update.

 

I'm sure the BMW is nice, but is it really 10-15K nicer then a Mustang, besides the ability to show off because of a Euro name plate?

My last one was an '03 Cobra. I have rented S197s and I think they much improved particularliy in the steering...please understand, I am not interested in showing off or drive BMs because of prestige. BMW is in a possition of selling cars that command more money, as such they are complete in a way that you have to experience to know - plus they are performance vehicles, its in the DNA. Weight distribution is always around 50/50 and there is simply no flab. They work with the driver - flattering you with an always linear throttle and steering control.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Project-Fairmont

[97svtgoin05gt]

My last one was an '03 Cobra. I have rented S197s and I think they much improved particularliy in the steering...please understand, I am not interested in showing off or drive BMs because of prestige. BMW is in a possition of selling cars that command more money, as such they are complete in a way that you have to experience to know - plus they are performance vehicles, its in the DNA. Weight distribution is always around 50/50 and there is simply no flab. They work with the driver - flattering you with an always linear throttle and steering control.

 

I totally agree with this and it is very difficult to explain the BMW driving experience unless you've actually experienced it. That said, the Mustang has come a LONG way since the old days. Everything about the car is much more sorted and well screwed together. I believe people in this group of buyers would be happy with either of these cars but in the long run, you'll get more resale value out of the BMW but much more costly upkeep with it as well. If you have a major out of warranty failure on the BMW, be prepared to remortgage your home to get it back.

[RichardJensen]

there is simply no flab

I think that's becoming less true as time goes by.

 

Also, mark me down as one who is unimpressed with BMW ergonomics, period. Not just iDrive. I've driven BMWs, and yes, they have nice steering, throttle, and brakes (from a user control standpoint). But everything apart from that ranges from annoying to maddening, IMO. Except the big speedo & tach.

Edited April 19, 2010 by RichardJensen

[akirby]

I think that's becoming less true as time goes by.

 

Also, mark me down as one who is unimpressed with BMW ergonomics, period. Not just iDrive. I've driven BMWs, and yes, they have nice steering, throttle, and brakes (from a user control standpoint). But everything apart from that ranges from annoying to maddening, IMO. Except the big speedo & tach.

 

I do not like BMW interiors - never have. I don't like the curves or the colors or the design. And Honda is really trying to copy them - at least in the Accord. And I don't like that either.

[Blue II]

They didn't want a heavy iron block 6.2 in the front of the Falcon so they went for a

S/C 5.0 that exceeds the power and torque of a 6.2 but has fuel economy like a 5.0.

 

Dearborn did not consider the 6.2 for any passenger car. FOA was told to use the Coyote. FOA does not have that kind of autonomy. No more fiefdoms.

 

The Oz tail don't wag the Dearborn dog. More changes are coming. Ford needs more market in Oz.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Blue II

[FoMoCobra]

My last one was an '03 Cobra. I have rented S197s and I think they much improved particularliy in the steering...please understand, I am not interested in showing off or drive BMs because of prestige. BMW is in a possition of selling cars that command more money, as such they are complete in a way that you have to experience to know - plus they are performance vehicles, its in the DNA. Weight distribution is always around 50/50 and there is simply no flab. They work with the driver - flattering you with an always linear throttle and steering control.

 

My last Mustang was also an 03 Cobra. I test drove an 05 when they came out but was not impressed at all. Since then I have had an 04 CLK and my 04 TSX. I've pretty much forgotten the Mustang until the announcement of the 5.0 just recently. I was very excited about the new motor and its underrated power, however I wasn't sure about picking one up just for the Motor alone (though I considered it).

 

So I figured I would test drive an '10 since its essentially the same car. I was blown away by the quality, craftsmanship and fit & finish all the way around. I was even impressed with the buttoned down solid axle. So the Mustang has come a long way. Its gotten a bit pricey, but I honestly believe that it is the best car America builds.

[Deanh]

Dearborn did not consider the 6.2 for any passenger car. FOA was told to use the Coyote. FOA does not have that kind of autonomy. No more fiefdoms.

 

The Oz tail don't wag the Dearborn dog. More changes are coming. Ford needs more market in Oz.

man you and your tid bits...drives us all crazy ( although clinically i've been there for years ) must be nice having inside scoops and dropping hints...you must go hog wild when embargos are lifted...lol! Sidenote...i am REALLY REALLY impressed with the 3.7 and 5.0 engines...ESPECIALLY in their RWD platforms......I'm proud as hell that I can HONESTLY say we have a couple of truly WORLD Class engines.....cudos to the people responsible.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Deanh

[JLaudioF150]

My last Mustang was also an 03 Cobra. I test drove an 05 when they came out but was not impressed at all. Since then I have had an 04 CLK and my 04 TSX. I've pretty much forgotten the Mustang until the announcement of the 5.0 just recently. I was very excited about the new motor and its underrated power, however I wasn't sure about picking one up just for the Motor alone (though I considered it).

 

So I figured I would test drive an '10 since its essentially the same car. I was blown away by the quality, craftsmanship and fit & finish all the way around. I was even impressed with the buttoned down solid axle. So the Mustang has come a long way. Its gotten a bit pricey, but I honestly believe that it is the best car America builds.

 

 

Put me down for not being impressed with BMW. It is all about prestige and for those comments that mention the BMW will last longer…seriously? My brother in law had a 3 series beemer (2004 model I think) and it was always in the shop. I don’t understand why everyone considers “German engineering” superior? To who – Chinese?

 

It’s all about the prestige. Same goes for the whole Corvette vs. (insert foreign super car). Which, come to think of it, both the Mustang and Corvette offer amazing performance to compete with much more expensive offerings WHILE offering better MPGs – which is very important these days.

[one2gamble]

Put me down for not being impressed with BMW. It is all about prestige and for those comments that mention the BMW will last longer…seriously? My brother in law had a 3 series beemer (2004 model I think) and it was always in the shop. I don’t understand why everyone considers “German engineering” superior? To who – Chinese?

 

It’s all about the prestige. Same goes for the whole Corvette vs. (insert foreign super car). Which, come to think of it, both the Mustang and Corvette offer amazing performance to compete with much more expensive offerings WHILE offering better MPGs – which is very important these days.

 

 

Im going to go in a different direction here a little bit. As far as value, the mustang takes out the M3 by a wide margin. There really is no value in the M3 what so ever.

 

That said, its a nicer car. Everything about it is in general nicer. That doesnt mean its laid out better or functions better, it just means that the components are simply nicer. I havent driven the new Mustang nor the new M3 but the past few M3's have been great to drive. They just feel different than a mustang, more sorted and solid in general. They didnt seem to suffer the flex and squeeks and creeks the mustangs used to, now I dont know if that is still the case but it was and its a reputation the Mustang will have to shed over time.

[JLaudioF150]

Im going to go in a different direction here a little bit. As far as value, the mustang takes out the M3 by a wide margin. There really is no value in the M3 what so ever.

 

That said, its a nicer car. Everything about it is in general nicer. That doesnt mean its laid out better or functions better, it just means that the components are simply nicer. I havent driven the new Mustang nor the new M3 but the past few M3's have been great to drive. They just feel different than a mustang, more sorted and solid in general. They didnt seem to suffer the flex and squeeks and creeks the mustangs used to, now I dont know if that is still the case but it was and its a reputation the Mustang will have to shed over time.

 

I agree with you. But to me, a car costing more than $50K sure as hell better be very reliable. I don’t care how fancy the materials feel. And for this very reason, we will continue buying Lexus over BMW and Mercedes for years to come.

 

But I do know what you’re saying. The car feels more solid, perhaps better material, etc. However, they need to make them more reliable. I’d put my money on the Mustang for actually being more reliable than the BMW.