RichardJensen Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Actually if I read the review correctly if the cars were equipped with about the same level of options the Focus doesn't cost that much more. It seems like they said the Focus had quite a bit of extra equipment that the Elantra didn't have. Yeah, but I'm not giving them credit for being able to mentally subtract out the perceived value of those extra items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Yeah, but I'm not giving them credit for being able to mentally subtract out the perceived value of those extra items. Which is the point you originally made, Ford building more expensive vehicles but with even greater perceived value. Perception, Ford changing the way it's brand is seen by potential buyers, form base models through to high series. GM stuck with Buick which means they don't have to or can't do as much with Chevrolet.... IMO, Ford brand now covers Chevrolet and Buick but offers customers more perceived value... Edited August 16, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) SE, thought there has been reports that Ford might make it optional on higher end models...I think you can get a manual Ti in Canada though FWIW, reliability stats on TrueDelta for the North American Fiesta's PowerShift transmission are not favorable. Regarding your question about the manual transmission: USA: 5-speed MT available on S & SE models That's too bad about the TrueDelta stats, but so long as it's useful for improving the technology, it'll only get better. I know companies like Honda (and I think Subaru) will have the manual tranny available in the higher (highest?) trim levels (or they used to), although only with the base engine (IIRC). It may have as much to do with packaging as dealer/manufacturer preferences (or impressions). You couldn't have park assist with a 5-speed. Some other features (Sync/MFT maybe?) might not meld well with a manual tranny, either. Edited August 17, 2011 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I mentioned the Canadian 5 speed availability, the salesman mentioned that the order rate is 95% automatic, I said "Why? It was designed for Europe with the manual being more popular". Do they sell many automatics in Europe? Personally I think US dealers are lazy and greedy, the automatic adds one BIG expensive option, and it's a virtually "automatic" (pun intended) profit. Hard to get a real idea of manual vs auto in USA without the SEL and Titanium being offered with manual tranny. Without the choice being made available of transmissions in SEL and Titanium and the high spec being the more popular customer factory orders their is zero chance of manual transmission percentage to be higher. Unless USA car buyers all of sudden decide factory order is preferred over the ease of just taking what is on the dealership lots, auto trannies will remain the highest percentage. If Ford dealerships Focus inventory is 95% sedan, I'd say it would be safe to say hatch sales would show low preference. Same goes for transmission percentages yes/no? Reading the article on how many Vista roof sales on the Edge rings the same response from me. I would imagine the stats reflect the dealership inventory not what option boxes the customer has checked. Would be useful and interesting to see what the percentage is for customer ordered Focus in the USA. Edited August 17, 2011 by MKII 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Hard to get a real idea of manual vs auto in USA without the SEL and Titanium being offered with manual tranny. Without the choice being made available of transmissions in SEL and Titanium and the high spec being the more popular customer factory orders their is zero chance of manual transmission percentage to be higher. Unless USA car buyers all of sudden decide factory order is preferred over the ease of just taking what is on the dealership lots, auto trannies will remain the highest percentage. If Ford dealerships Focus inventory is 95% sedan, I'd say it would be safe to say hatch sales would show low preference. Same goes for transmission percentages yes/no? Reading the article on how many Vista roof sales on the Edge rings the same response from me. I would imagine the stats reflect the dealership inventory not what option boxes the customer has checked. Would be useful and interesting to see what the percentage is for customer ordered Focus in the USA. You can't go by inventory. If hatches are being sold immediately and/or ordered while the sedans are sitting on the lots longer then the inventory will look skewed towards sedans while the actual sales numbers could favor hatchbacks. And people will generally buy what they want and not just settle for what's in stock except in rare cases where they need a vehicle right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 You can't go by inventory. If hatches are being sold immediately and/or ordered while the sedans are sitting on the lots longer then the inventory will look skewed towards sedans while the actual sales numbers could favor hatchbacks. And people will generally buy what they want and not just settle for what's in stock except in rare cases where they need a vehicle right away. I am ordering my focus,because I Literally want every option available with the manual. with X-plan this ends up costing 21.9k A titanium with an automatic the way I want it would be 23.8k If you remove the 900 for the Automatic It would only be a $1000 difference. that adds MFT, Dual zone HVAC, puddle lamps, 10 speaker sony system, HD radio, push button start, auto headlamps, lit vanity mirrors, and universal garage opener all for $1000 more. even if the manual was a no cost option, I would be willing to pay an extra $1900 for all the options listed above. I wish ford would decide tomorrow to offer a manual in the titanium. Although I wold Really love ford the MT6 6spd to be offered inplace of the the 5 spd on the higher end Focus, that would allow the manual to equal the Auto in economy. in top gear the 5 spd spins at 3100rpm at 70 the 6speed spin 400-500 rpm lower in top gear at the same speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I am ordering my focus,because I Literally want every option available with the manual. with X-plan this ends up costing 21.9k A titanium with an automatic the way I want it would be 23.8k If you remove the 900 for the Automatic It would only be a $1000 difference. that adds MFT, Dual zone HVAC, puddle lamps, 10 speaker sony system, HD radio, push button start, auto headlamps, lit vanity mirrors, and universal garage opener all for $1000 more. even if the manual was a no cost option, I would be willing to pay an extra $1900 for all the options listed above. I wish ford would decide tomorrow to offer a manual in the titanium. Although I wold Really love ford the MT6 6spd to be offered inplace of the the 5 spd on the higher end Focus, that would allow the manual to equal the Auto in economy. in top gear the 5 spd spins at 3100rpm at 70 the 6speed spin 400-500 rpm lower in top gear at the same speed. actually Biker, higher RPMS dont always equate to worse mileage.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Like it or not manual transmissions have been slowly phased out over the past 10 years in everything from cars to pickups to SUVs. I don't see this trend changing and I'd say in another 5 years you will be hard pressed to find a manual in anything except a sports car. Almost everyone wants an automatic and the few that want a manual will end up either buying an automatic, driving their old vehicle into the ground or walking. Sorry if you are a manual fan, but that is just how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Like it or not manual transmissions have been slowly phased out over the past 10 years in everything from cars to pickups to SUVs. You do relazie that 10 years ago was 2001....its more like the past 15-20 years. I think the last time a manual was offered in the Explorer was in First Gen Explorer Sport Trac ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 You do relazie that 10 years ago was 2001....its more like the past 15-20 years. I think the last time a manual was offered in the Explorer was in First Gen Explorer Sport Trac ? Your right. Time is just getting away from me. I must be getting old at 35. LOL I do remember a time not too long ago when you could get an F-150 4x4 pretty well equipped with a manual 5 speed, but I guess it has probably been years ago at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 actually Biker, higher RPMS dont always equate to worse mileage.......... if its the same engine it can. how else would you explain the difference in economy between the automated manual and the manual. The GDI engine has VCT, quasi lean burn and electronic throttle. In other words engine torque can be controlled independent of the throttle, so the old issue of the engine producing more torque than needed to maintian cruise, and the throttle is used to reduce torque creating additional pumping losses because the engine is breathing through a straw. with the GDI the engine can run at WOT eliminating most pumping losses, and using heavy EGR and quasi lean burn and or Atkinson Cycle, to reduce torque without incurring pumping losses. previously car makers had to balance optimum top gear performance, NVH with fuel economy, with GDI they have more flexibility. http://www.mechadyne...osses-si-engine That Said the mechanical efficiency of the powershift and the MTX 75 is the same. I would even venture that the MTX75 and it's replacement the MT6 are more efficient than the Dual lay shaft powershift. they have far fewer parts, a simpler layout, less weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Your right. Time is just getting away from me. I must be getting old at 35. LOL I do remember a time not too long ago when you could get an F-150 4x4 pretty well equipped with a manual 5 speed, but I guess it has probably been years ago at this point. heheheh I'll be 37 this year....I had an oh shit moment when 1981 was 30 years ago LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye of the Tiger Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thanks for the discussion. I am interested in a new Focus. The Titanium looks great. Does anyone know about the other Focus? I think it is RS? Maybe some other name. Thought I had seen something about a different Focus coming out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the discussion. I am interested in a new Focus. The Titanium looks great. Does anyone know about the other Focus? I think it is RS? Maybe some other name. Thought I had seen something about a different Focus coming out. Confirmed Focus ST (approx 250hp) next spring launch and Focus RS (Ford said it is currently testing , with rumored launch model year 2014, tested motor up to 380hp) Edited August 19, 2011 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Confirmed Focus ST (approx 250hp) next spring launch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I am wondering about the 0-60 times. I recently watched Motorweek and they ran the Focus at 7.6 Seconds from 0-60...compared to 8.6 seconds in the Hyundai comparison. I think the test drivers (credentials?) were struggling with having to accept the COLD HARD FACTS that the Focus is better...in every important category...faster, much better braking, better slalom times, quieter, better quality materials, much better seating....they had to come up with some defense...so they picked price. Of course they FAILED to emphasize that without the Top Premium model (Titanium) the 2 cars are only about $900 different. Go figure. I read in USA that the Elantra charges extra for a spare tire and jack...did anyone read that article? Anyway, the Focus is better! USA, USA, USA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I am wondering about the 0-60 times. I recently watched Motorweek and they ran the Focus at 7.6 Seconds from 0-60...compared to 8.6 seconds in the Hyundai comparison. I think the test drivers (credentials?) were struggling with having to accept the COLD HARD FACTS that the Focus is better...in every important category...faster, much better braking, better slalom times, quieter, better quality materials, much better seating....they had to come up with some defense...so they picked price. Of course they FAILED to emphasize that without the Top Premium model (Titanium) the 2 cars are only about $900 different. Go figure. I read in USA that the Elantra charges extra for a spare tire and jack...did anyone read that article? Anyway, the Focus is better! USA, USA, USA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 OK...I just read the May 'Car and Driver' road tests of the 2012 Focus. 0-60 MPH in 7.6 seconds. I thought that Hyundai article was incorrect when it claimed a 8.6 seconds time for 0-60 MPH. As a matter of fact, Car and Driver compared the Focus to the Cruze, Jetta and Elantra. It beat them all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I read in USA that the Elantra charges extra for a spare tire and jack...did anyone read that article? Anyway, the Focus is better! USA, USA, USA! I thought Ford made the spare tire optional equipment on the Focus? I assume to lower the vehicle's weight for EPA testing purposes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Ford Focus has a mini spare tire as STANDARD equipment according to Consumers Report. The Hyundai Elantra does NOT have a spare tire as standard. They offer an inflatable glue that must be injected into a flat tire...however, Consumers Report failed to mention that until one of their drivers hit a rock and had a sidewall damaged. The glue did not work. Hyundai claimed the mini spare is an option. Geez...and Consumers never caught that until after they gave the Elantra a good rating. Goes to show you how these so-called Consumer experts aren't really experts. Glue to inject in a tire ...c'mon. The mini-spare adds another $130 to the price. I thought Ford made the spare tire optional equipment on the Focus? I assume to lower the vehicle's weight for EPA testing purposes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Like it or not manual transmissions have been slowly phased out over the past 10 years in everything from cars to pickups to SUVs. I don't see this trend changing and I'd say in another 5 years you will be hard pressed to find a manual in anything except a sports car. Almost everyone wants an automatic and the few that want a manual will end up either buying an automatic, driving their old vehicle into the ground or walking. Sorry if you are a manual fan, but that is just how it is. I don't like this thinking because it will lead to the further decline of manuals. I am mulling over the idea of a 2012 Focus, and I have been kind of deciding if this will be a deal breaker for me. I already know what I want if I decide to buy, but I don't know if i can get it. - Manual trans (mandantory) - burgandy/black leather (probably, want to see it in person first) - Tuxedo black or the dark grey color Sport package.... I would LOVE the Titanium handling package with the 18 inch wheels, but that's where the problem lies. They don't offer the Titanium with the manual trans. This bothers me. I know I can get the "Appearance Package" with the SE but I really would like the handling package suspension as well. Well, I don't have a problem with the Titanium package in terms of price or anything... but I want the manual! The sad thing is, I really don't want this car with an automatic trans but they don't offer it in the trim level I want with the manual and yes, that matters to me even to the point of losing the sale outright. I still have yet to go on a test drive, but I doubt that the automatic will be SOOO GOOD that it will make me change my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I don't like this thinking because it will lead to the further decline of manuals. I am mulling over the idea of a 2012 Focus, and I have been kind of deciding if this will be a deal breaker for me. I already know what I want if I decide to buy, but I don't know if i can get it. - Manual trans (mandantory) - burgandy/black leather (probably, want to see it in person first) - Tuxedo black or the dark grey color Sport package.... I would LOVE the Titanium handling package with the 18 inch wheels, but that's where the problem lies. They don't offer the Titanium with the manual trans. This bothers me. I know I can get the "Appearance Package" with the SE but I really would like the handling package suspension as well. Well, I don't have a problem with the Titanium package in terms of price or anything... but I want the manual! The sad thing is, I really don't want this car with an automatic trans but they don't offer it in the trim level I want with the manual and yes, that matters to me even to the point of losing the sale outright. I still have yet to go on a test drive, but I doubt that the automatic will be SOOO GOOD that it will make me change my mind. IMO ANY vehicle that has a SPORT PACKAGE should be avail with a manual...after all, if someone wants a taut suspension it usually means they enjoy driving...I do...and I would hesitate buying said vehicle without a manual trans.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I don't like this thinking because it will lead to the further decline of manuals. I am mulling over the idea of a 2012 Focus, and I have been kind of deciding if this will be a deal breaker for me. I already know what I want if I decide to buy, but I don't know if i can get it. - Manual trans (mandantory) - burgandy/black leather (probably, want to see it in person first) - Tuxedo black or the dark grey color Sport package.... I would LOVE the Titanium handling package with the 18 inch wheels, but that's where the problem lies. They don't offer the Titanium with the manual trans. This bothers me. I know I can get the "Appearance Package" with the SE but I really would like the handling package suspension as well. Well, I don't have a problem with the Titanium package in terms of price or anything... but I want the manual! The sad thing is, I really don't want this car with an automatic trans but they don't offer it in the trim level I want with the manual and yes, that matters to me even to the point of losing the sale outright. I still have yet to go on a test drive, but I doubt that the automatic will be SOOO GOOD that it will make me change my mind. Why not wait for the ST? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Why not wait for the ST? maybe price, my guess is an ST with all of the titaniums options will run $31-32k, Im hoping not, $29,995 plus D&D sounds a million times better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Why not wait for the ST? $27K is out of my price range for a commuter. $20-23K is more reasonable and what I'd feel more comfy in paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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