Harley Lover Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Lost in the show hubub is this significant news from Jim Farley: Ford Motor Co. is accelerating its One Ford global product development plan by reducing its target for vehicle platforms worldwide to nine from eleven previously, and by moving the target date up to 2013 from 2014 The 9 platforms are identified as 5 global platforms, and 4 regional platforms. The five global platforms are listed as: B C C/D Light truck (Ranger pickup sold outside the U.S.) Commercial (Transit) The F series is given as an example of one of the 4 regional platforms. (duh) I think this is worthy of discussion, as it has implications for several favorite and not so favorite products, including Lincoln. Full article here: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120111/OEM09/120119943/1491 Edited January 11, 2012 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Assuming they aren't talking commerical platforms... G1) Global B-Platform for the Fiesta, B-Max, EcoSport, and Ka G2) Global C-Platform for the Focus, C-Max, Escape/Kuga, and Transit Connect G3) Global CD-Platform for the Fusion/Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy, and Edge G4) Global Fullsized Van Platform for the Transit G5) Global Midsized Truck Platform for the Ranger and Everest R1) Regional B-Platform in India and Brazil as developing market price leader under a variety of names (Figo, Ikon, Rocam, etc) R2) Regional D-Platform in North America for the Taurus, Explorer, and Flex R3) Regional D-Platform in Australia for the Falcon and Territory R4) Regional Fullsized Truck Platform for the F-Series and Expedition That means we should be seeing the new Ka, TC, and Edge come out fairly quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Assuming they aren't talking commerical platforms... G1) Global B-Platform for the Fiesta, B-Max, EcoSport, and Ka G2) Global C-Platform for the Focus, C-Max, Escape/Kuga, and Transit Connect G3) Global CD-Platform for the Fusion/Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy, and Edge G4) Global Fullsized Van Platform for the Transit G5) Global Midsized Truck Platform for the Ranger and Everest R1) Regional B-Platform in India and Brazil as developing market price leader under a variety of names (Figo, Ikon, Rocam, etc) R2) Regional D-Platform in North America for the Taurus, Explorer, and Flex R3) Regional D-Platform in Australia for the Falcon and Territory R4) Regional Fullsized Truck Platform for the F-Series and Expedition That means we should be seeing the new Ka, TC, and Edge come out fairly quick. Mustang? :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 the Irony is that platform no longer matter. the defintion of platfrom is so varied and loose that it has little meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPV GTHO Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Assuming they aren't talking commerical platforms... G1) Global B-Platform for the Fiesta, B-Max, EcoSport, and Ka G2) Global C-Platform for the Focus, C-Max, Escape/Kuga, and Transit Connect G3) Global CD-Platform for the Fusion/Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy, and Edge G4) Global Fullsized Van Platform for the Transit G5) Global Midsized Truck Platform for the Ranger and Everest R1) Regional B-Platform in India and Brazil as developing market price leader under a variety of names (Figo, Ikon, Rocam, etc) R2) Regional D-Platform in North America for the Taurus, Explorer, and Flex R3) Regional D-Platform in Australia for the Falcon and Territory R4) Regional Fullsized Truck Platform for the F-Series and Expedition That means we should be seeing the new Ka, TC, and Edge come out fairly quick. Locally the Falcon and Territory arent considered to be on the same platform. The floor of each vehicle is completely different despite the high commonality of parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Assuming they aren't talking commerical platforms... G1) Global B-Platform for the Fiesta, B-Max, EcoSport, and Ka G2) Global C-Platform for the Focus, C-Max, Escape/Kuga, and Transit Connect G3) Global CD-Platform for the Fusion/Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy, and Edge G4) Global Fullsized Van Platform for the Transit G5) Global Midsized Truck Platform for the Ranger and Everest R1) Regional B-Platform in India and Brazil as developing market price leader under a variety of names (Figo, Ikon, Rocam, etc) R2) Regional D-Platform in North America for the Taurus, Explorer, and Flex R3) Regional D-Platform in Australia for the Falcon and Territory R4) Regional Fullsized Truck Platform for the F-Series and Expedition That means we should be seeing the new Ka, TC, and Edge come out fairly quick. Well one thing, the Taurus is going to a extended CD platform, so that removes it from the D platform I would also remove the low cost B-platform also, since that would fall under the Fiesta platform, even though its based on the last gen model So for Regional Platforms it would be Mustang, Falcon, F-series, and D Utility platform and I could see the Mustang and Falcon development platforms possibly getting merged in the future. The D Utility platform will most likely be phased out over the next 7-8 years or so...I can see the Explorer getting a major refresh in 2017 or so and replaced in 2020ish. The PI and PUI will likely remain unchanged from this year till they are phased out around the same time. I'd expect a CD based Taurus in the next 2-3 years off the Fusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 the Irony is that platform no longer matter. the defintion of platfrom is so varied and loose that it has little meaning. It does if you're an engineer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Well one thing, the Taurus is going to a extended CD platform, so that removes it from the D platform I would also remove the low cost B-platform also, since that would fall under the Fiesta platform, even though its based on the last gen model So for Regional Platforms it would be Mustang, Falcon, F-series, and D Utility platform and I could see the Mustang and Falcon development platforms possibly getting merged in the future. Imagine Mustang and Falcon like Focus and Fusion, both differnt platforms but sharing power trains and electrical systems is where huge savings are made, Maybe Falcon and Mustang can share front end and front half of floor pan... What to do with big cars, should Falcon and Taurus share with Fusion / Mondeo or should they share with Mustang? I think you could make a a fairly good business case for both of them, it just depends what's the best fit and whether Fusion becomes far more popular anyway, making Taurus a lower volume niche... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Imagine Mustang and Falcon like Focus and Fusion, both differnt platforms but sharing power trains and electrical systems is where huge savings are made, Maybe Falcon and Mustang can share front end and front half of floor pan... What to do with big cars, should Falcon and Taurus share with Fusion / Mondeo or should they share with Mustang? I think you could make a a fairly good business case for both of them, it just depends what's the best fit and whether Fusion becomes far more popular anyway, making Taurus a lower volume niche... I think it's a given Taurus will have to either share the CD4 platform (longer and maybe wider) or a GRWD Falcon/Mustang platform. I don't think D3/D4 will suffice for cars going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I think it's a given Taurus will have to either share the CD4 platform (longer and maybe wider) or a GRWD Falcon/Mustang platform. I don't think D3/D4 will suffice for cars going forward. One thing you notice Falcon Vs Mondeo is that the Falcon has a much tighter turning circle and even though tread widths and body widths are close, Falcon has 3" more shoulder room . It's a very efficient platform, skip the I-6 and the cars length could be shortened to Fusion / Mondeo... Edited January 12, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Does anyone have a good feel for the China market? I think we need to consider the possibility that Chinese market needs could potentially affect platform volumes. For example, I keep reading that stretched wheelbase cars are popular in China (BMW,Mercedes, Audi, even GM), so perhaps a D chassis product might actually have higher global volume if it could be sold in China. <That's just an example, not saying it's true, but could there be other examples in which the Chinese market might drive platform volume, and change a plaform's global volume potential from what it would be now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I wonder if Ford has accelerated its plans to discontinue some of its orphaned products, like the Australian E8 (Falcon/Territory) and the Expedition/Navigator. That would account for some of the quick reduction. By the end of 2013, we might have a new Edge/MKX/S-Max/Galaxy, but we will not have a new F-Series to base the Expy/Navy on, or a new global full-size platform to replace the poor selling Falcon. Edited January 12, 2012 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I wonder if Ford has accelerated its plans to discontinue some of its orphaned products, like the Australian E8 (Falcon/Territory) and the Expedition/Navigator. That would account for some of the quick reduction. By the end of 2013, we might have a new Edge/MKX/S-Max/Galaxy, but we will not have a new F-Series to base the Expy/Navy on, or a new global full-size platform to replace the poor selling Falcon. Borg....I still believe that the next gen Expedition / Navigator will be unibody and possibly based on Transit FS architecture....Falcon is an enigma, with Global Rear Wheel Drive (GRWD) on hold....this may portend to a melding of Falcon toward next generation Mustang.....an ironic twist as Mustang originally sprang from the architecture of Falcon.... Edited January 12, 2012 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPV GTHO Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Falcon was just confirmed to 2016 with a 2014 update. Assimilation with Mustang though has probably already started As for Chinese large cars, i think that will be what influences Taurus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Look at the timeline guys... "moving the target date up to 2013 from 2014"... That means the end of next calander year... Also remember when he says platform he is talking big picture... Yes the Focus and Escape ride on different floor, but are highly related. Same thing with the Expedition which even today is highly related to the F150 platform. Now as timeline is short you guys got to think short-term... D4 and the Explorer isn't going away 2 years after it arrived.... Particularly after the PI Utility push... They simply aren't going to within the next year cancel the Explorer and move it onto a new platform that soon. D4 is going to last at least 4 year more, not killed by 2013. So mark that down as staying... Also the Regional last generation Fiesta isn't going away for a long time, as Ford needs a low price leader for developing markets... The global Fiesta is overpriced for most developing markets and Ford is making a big push there to reduce its profit dependance on NA. The Figo which is the linchpin of their Asian expansion plan, while the last gen Fiesta is strong in Latin America... So it is staying... Assuming when he says 2013 they mean publically shown by end of 2013, not the production change over... If so the three orphans I identified look "possible"... We've seen pictures of TC mules, and as such I expect to see the next gen by 2013 NAIAS at the latest. We've seen the Ka concept, Brazil is free to work it, and was able to quickly produce the EcoSport so late 2013 is perfectly reasonable. The Edge will be a challenge... But assuming it along the lines I belive it will be (think Vensa... AWD Fusion/Mondeo 5-door on slits with a different top hat) a production based concept is possible by the 2013 LA show. But you guys are absolutely right that I missed the Mustang... Maybe there is a mandate from the Glass House that the Mustang must consolidate onto the Falcon platform, or that the Falcon consolidates onto the D3 platform. 2013 seems a little early to be seeing benifits of that plan, as the FoA Falcon plan is targeting 2015 as the next update (are rolling out the finishing touches of the last refresh)... Very interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It does if you're an engineer. the idea is too rigid, and ignores the true benefit of sharing is not simply the floorpan but the purchased components, that are the true cost drivers in product engineering. the fact that The Electrical archecture is shared between C2 and CD4 matters far more than the platform itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 the idea is too rigid, and ignores the true benefit of sharing is not simply the floorpan but the purchased components, that are the true cost drivers in product engineering. the fact that The Electrical archecture is shared between C2 and CD4 matters far more than the platform itself. I don't know which one saves more money but obviously both types of sharing are desirable. The biggest savings for the platform itself is probably that you don't have to start from scratch to develop a new vehicle. You just modify the existing platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I count the following "orphaned" platforms currently in use, or about to get a new lease on life: 1. Mk5 Fiesta - Currently in use in South America (Fiesta), and India (Figo) 2. Mk4 Fiesta - Currently in use in South America (Ka, Courier) and South Africa (Ikon, Bantam) 3. C1 Focus - Previous gen Focus about to be recycled in China for Ford's new low cost brand, and continue sales in South America and South Africa as Focus Classic 4. Mk1 Escape - Previous gen Escape about to be recycled in China for Ford's new low cost brand 5. Mazda Bongo van/truck - Currently in use in Taiwan and a couple of other Asian markets (Ford Econovan) 6. Mk2 Ka - Currently in use in Europe #1 and 2 will probably eventually be replaced by Mk6 Fiesta but they certainly will live beyond 2013. #3 and 4 are also going to be around for a long time in China. #5 status is unclear but Ford Australia was working on a compact van for Asian market to replace the ancient Mazda based van but not sure what happened to that project. #6 will probably end after the current model run is over. I don't think neither Ford nor Fiat is that interested in extending that partnership. Presumably, Ford will return to a chopped Fiesta platform for the next Ka. Edited January 13, 2012 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 1) Mk5 Fiesta isn’t going away… Ford needs a price leader for developing markets as the Mk6 Fiesta comes in at too high of a price. Ford has made it clear the Figo is key to their expansion into Asian markets, and the Brazil older Fiesta is key to continued strength in Latin America 2) See 6 for the Ka, and the Courier and Bantam have already been targeted for cancelation. The Ikon in South Africa and Mexico is not the same Mk4 Fiesta based Ikon that was once sold in India. They are Mk5 Fiesta sedans sourced from India (no local production in South Africa or Mexico). 3) This would be in contrast to what Ford said earlier… They said they would convert all Focus production to the new global version and eliminate the older generations. Numbers don't support the older Focus and Escape living on and getting down to the 9 platforms by next year. Farley wouldn't have said what he said unless the plan is to cancel them. 4) See 3 5) Its obvious Farley was talking about non-commercial platforms as 9 isn't enough... For example there are cab-forward commerical vehicles in South America. I figure a combination Transit Connect, Transit, and E-Series could replace any van worldwide. 6) Ford just a month ago released a press release saying that Brazil is working on a new Ka based on the Mk6 Fiesta. This will replace the current Fiat sourced version, and will replace the older Ka in Brazil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I am starting to wonder if the Super Duty will be merged back into the F-150 platform at some point. And where is medium duty? Are commercial products not part of the platform consolidation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I wonder if Ford has accelerated its plans to discontinue some of its orphaned products, like the Australian E8 (Falcon/Territory) and the Expedition/Navigator. That would account for some of the quick reduction. By the end of 2013, we might have a new Edge/MKX/S-Max/Galaxy, but we will not have a new F-Series to base the Expy/Navy on, or a new global full-size platform to replace the poor selling Falcon. Ford has just refreshed the Falcon in November but has taken the unprecedented move of announcing a Falcon MCE for 2014 that will take the car through to 2016, which looks like the exact opposite of killing it.... What Falcon does need is a new design that suits a broader range of buyers and more commonality with Mustang. The Territory is a mere four inches longer than the current Edge, why risk a FoE design when Territory is in the open and could offer RWD/AWD to the consumers without compromising sales to Explorer and Escape... Edited January 13, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I count the following "orphaned" platforms currently in use, or about to get a new lease on life: 1. Mk5 Fiesta - Currently in use in South America (Fiesta), and India (Figo) 2. Mk4 Fiesta - Currently in use in South America (Ka, Courier) and South Africa (Ikon, Bantam) 3. C1 Focus - Previous gen Focus about to be recycled in China for Ford's new low cost brand, and continue sales in South America and South Africa as Focus Classic 4. Mk1 Escape - Previous gen Escape about to be recycled in China for Ford's new low cost brand 5. Mazda Bongo van/truck - Currently in use in Taiwan and a couple of other Asian markets (Ford Econovan) 6. Mk2 Ka - Currently in use in Europe #1 and 2 will probably eventually be replaced by Mk6 Fiesta but they certainly will live beyond 2013. #3 and 4 are also going to be around for a long time in China. #5 status is unclear but Ford Australia was working on a compact van for Asian market to replace the ancient Mazda based van but not sure what happened to that project. #6 will probably end after the current model run is over. I don't think neither Ford nor Fiat is that interested in extending that partnership. Presumably, Ford will return to a chopped Fiesta platform for the next Ka. You forgot Transit Connect which has a variation of the even older Focus C170 chassis design architecture as its base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I am starting to wonder if the Super Duty will be merged back into the F-150 platform at some point. And where is medium duty? Are commercial products not part of the platform consolidation? No they are not... commercial is separate... What Falcon does need is a new design that suits a broader range of buyers and more commonality with Mustang. The Territory is a mere four inches longer than the current Edge, why risk a FoE design when Territory is in the open and could offer RWD/AWD to the consumers without compromising sales to Explorer and Escape... I don't see Territory replacing the Edge..maybe as an Explorer replacement or even maybe as a Bronco? It would make no sense having a FWD small CUV, a RWD Mid CUV and then a FWD CUV You forgot Transit Connect which has a variation of the even older Focus C170 chassis design architecture as its base. Thats getting moved to new Focus/C-max platform. As for the B car platforms with premium vs cheap models...keep this mind...is it really a new platform with the Premium models? For example, the Focus started off on the C170 platform and stayed the course with it till the 2012 Focus in NA. The C1 was an improvement, but as the C170 was being updated stateside, it was able to use some C1 components on it...the Current platform (not sure of its designation now) on the 2012 Focus is just another improvement upon the C1 platform. I think some people are looking at this too hard....I'd assume most platforms are basically the same with improvements to them on the "premium" models. Having a Cheap B platform and a expensive B platform isn't as huge of a stretch as saying a having a B car vs CD car. I'm sure that the cheap and expensive B platforms share wiring harnesses etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 For example, I keep reading that stretched wheelbase cars are popular in China (BMW,Mercedes, Audi, even GM), so perhaps a D chassis product might actually have higher global volume if it could be sold in China. This has been discussed before. Ford seems to focused on the low end of the market in China, but if the really want to make their mark in China, they need a stretch version. Frankly, I think Ford missed the boat by NOT stretching the D platform for the MkS !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This has been discussed before. Ford seems to focused on the low end of the market in China, but if the really want to make their mark in China, they need a stretch version. Frankly, I think Ford missed the boat by NOT stretching the D platform for the MkS !! LWB Mondeo was already spotted in China back in 2007. http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1026828_long-wheelbase-ford-mondeo-spotted-in-china Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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