Deanh Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 I don't think dealers are going to ever go away, but I do see some changes in the future. I believe eventually the laws will be changed to allow more direct manufacturer sales, and this will allow dealerships to operate with little to no inventory, but otherwise operate pretty much like they do now. This could actually help many dealerships if they don't have to deal with inventory and its associated costs. It may also lessen the haggle hassle over price. You could order online, but would take delivery at a dealership, and the dealership, not a salesperson, would get a commission on each sale (mainly to cover the cost of the "demo" staff). thats already kind of happening due to Ford cutting back production and dealers thus reflecting 1/3 less inventory. Consequently ATP's are higher and ironically Customer Satisfaction is rising. As for ordering online, you can factory order at the dealer now so really whats the difference?...plus theres an individual to answer questions and explain why one option can/ cant be had with another....you STILL need ( well most of the time ) live help unless you wish to PUSH ONE FOR ENGLISH....etc etc etc...and we know how much we all LOVE that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 thats already kind of happening due to Ford cutting back production and dealers thus reflecting 1/3 less inventory. Consequently ATP's are higher and ironically Customer Satisfaction is rising. As for ordering online, you can factory order at the dealer now so really whats the difference?...plus theres an individual to answer questions and explain why one option can/ cant be had with another....you STILL need ( well most of the time ) live help unless you wish to PUSH ONE FOR ENGLISH....etc etc etc...and we know how much we all LOVE that. To have an excellent Customer Service experience you need to have a real person to talk to. But so much depends on that ONE person. Speaking of trade-ins.........IMHO opinion it's one of the driving forces behind leases. I brought in my 05 Mustang GT to CarMax, they looked it over. It was 4 years old with 27K miles. It was clayed and waxed regularly. Really spotless interior. Rims were bright, tires shiny. They told me it would need "reconditioning" and that no one was buying V8s..........and they didn't give anything for low mileage! Then they offered some absurd figure below KBB. I said I used to do auto detailing! I basically threw up my hands (not literally) in disgust and walked out. At that point I didn't want to hear another offer or deal with them at all. Later a friend took his newly inherited Chevy V6 truck there. They actually gave him a decent deal. he then bought a new 2011 Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 To have an excellent Customer Service experience you need to have a real person to talk to. But so much depends on that ONE person. Speaking of trade-ins.........IMHO opinion it's one of the driving forces behind leases. I brought in my 05 Mustang GT to CarMax, they looked it over. It was 4 years old with 27K miles. It was clayed and waxed regularly. Really spotless interior. Rims were bright, tires shiny. They told me it would need "reconditioning" and that no one was buying V8s..........and they didn't give anything for low mileage! Then they offered some absurd figure below KBB. I said I used to do auto detailing! I basically threw up my hands (not literally) in disgust and walked out. At that point I didn't want to hear another offer or deal with them at all. Later a friend took his newly inherited Chevy V6 truck there. They actually gave him a decent deal. he then bought a new 2011 Focus. unfortunately timm, people want it both ways, the convienience of www.click. price.deliverthecartomydoor.com and then a REAL person to talk to when theres issue. LMAO! Its my beleif in todays world that human interaction is a skill thats becoming more and more watered down....sad, but true, people really dont want to deal with people if they dont have too....and cry foul when they need to and no-one responds to their needs...society has become a tad too self centered, and may actually get worse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Laws can't be changed? Like i said it can be done, its just not a big enough issue to warrant the investment or headaches. Not if the lawmakers in each state don't want to change them. There is nothing that Ford can do to force the law to be changed so it's not a matter of investment or effort. Lawmakers do not want a national corporation to take over locally owned businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I believe eventually the laws will be changed to allow more direct manufacturer sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Not if the lawmakers in each state don't want to change them. There is nothing that Ford can do to force the law to be changed so it's not a matter of investment or effort. Lawmakers do not want a national corporation to take over locally owned businesses. see, and heres the quandry, seems, ( and perhaps its a reflection of a dot com society where instantaneous results are but a click away so it doesnt intrude in my texting/ computer time ) people want the UBER ( LOVE THAT WORD FOR SOME REASON ) convienience of not having to deal with another person. So, lets close down Malls, chain stores, restaurants, gas stations and become a "CLICK," deliver it to my front door society. After all, we dont want to actually make an effort do we? when I can just push the "enter" button.....on the flip side, when theres an issue we want someone on the line IMMEDIATELY rateher than send and e-mail and GASP...have to WAIT for a reply...THE AUDACITY! Edited July 19, 2012 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 There are no-haggle dealerships. One of them will get my business, even if I have an X-plan pin, just because I prefer the business style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Uhh yeah, but how mad would you be if you had to send your Focus back to the assembly plant for a part that would need to be replaced. The dealer even if they did not have the part, might have the option of removing it from a new car on site. As for your Macbook Pro.....why could they not replace the video card on site? I think it would be better to have on site technicians, that is what franchised dealers offer. I am not saying Apple stuff is crap, it is quite good, I am just not in love with the service. I'll let you in on something....car dealerships and the Apple Store don't normally stock parts on hand. Why carry all this extra stock around that you might be stuck with? As for my computer...they did all the repairs on site, just had to wait on the parts to come. As for pulling the part off another computer, first off, the Mac I had was almost a year old, and a new generation came out a few months before, so they didn't have the same video card in them. The process took less then a week...figure 24-48 hours to get the part and another 24-48 hours to get the work done etc...it was pretty painless. I'd much rather do the work myself (my field of work) but I was pretty impressed by how the Genius Bar did everything vs what I've dealt with in the PC world. I can see why non-techy people would like something like this, but for the most part I try to fix it myself till I get to the point I can't and HAVE to take it to get fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 There are no-haggle dealerships. One of them will get my business, even if I have an X-plan pin, just because I prefer the business style. well, X-plan is no haggle, so i dont exactly understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) There are no-haggle dealerships. One of them will get my business, even if I have an X-plan pin, just because I prefer the business style. sorry, just have to say this, I doubt you would have to haggle if you were ok paying MSRP.....snicker! However MSRP is absolutely ignored 99% of the time. Edited July 20, 2012 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 There are no-haggle dealerships. One of them will get my business, even if I have an X-plan pin, just because I prefer the business style. ...and even at "no haggle" dealerships, you can still haggle. The dealer we typically buy from uses a no haggle "One Best Price" model for their used car sales, yet I've never had any trouble knocking the "best" price down considerably. The "no haggle" model is an easing tool to attract people who are intimidated by the typical caybuying experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 My issue with "no-haggle" dealerships is that some of them play games with fees and add-ons or other ploys to get the sale or get more profit from the deal and that bothers me more than a honest dealer who only haggles a little. Even before I used X plan I never haggled - just asked for their best price up front and took the best offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 see, and heres the quandry, seems, ( and perhaps its a reflection of a dot com society where instantaneous results are but a click away so it doesnt intrude in my texting/ computer time ) people want the UBER ( LOVE THAT WORD FOR SOME REASON ) convienience of not having to deal with another person. So, lets close down Malls, chain stores, restaurants, gas stations and become a "CLICK," deliver it to my front door society. After all, we dont want to actually make an effort do we? when I can just push the "enter" button.....on the flip side, when theres an issue we want someone on the line IMMEDIATELY rateher than send and e-mail and GASP...have to WAIT for a reply...THE AUDACITY! If you've been noticing at all, we are almost there now. Amazon just said they will start offering same day delivery. Brick and mortar stores are barely hanging in now. Roads are flooded wtih UPS and Fed Ex trucks. It's been predicted that cash money as in bills will be completely gone in a few more years. The retail landscape out there is blown out and not coming back with more and more buying online as we stay huddled in our homes clicking on links and waiting for UPS truck to pull up out front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 If you've been noticing at all, we are almost there now. Amazon just said they will start offering same day delivery. Brick and mortar stores are barely hanging in now. Roads are flooded wtih UPS and Fed Ex trucks. It's been predicted that cash money as in bills will be completely gone in a few more years. The retail landscape out there is blown out and not coming back with more and more buying online as we stay huddled in our homes clicking on links and waiting for UPS truck to pull up out front. wont happen with vehicles...heres your car, heres your manual, now you are on your own...based on experience people dont like opening the manual to find out how something operates...they would rather be shown...but I hear you, scary witnessing the death of human interaction.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 If you've been noticing at all, we are almost there now. Amazon just said they will start offering same day delivery. Brick and mortar stores are barely hanging in now. Roads are flooded wtih UPS and Fed Ex trucks. It's been predicted that cash money as in bills will be completely gone in a few more years. The retail landscape out there is blown out and not coming back with more and more buying online as we stay huddled in our homes clicking on links and waiting for UPS truck to pull up out front. It can sure feel that way . . . but 1) Let's see if Amazon can pull same-day off in the long run 2) Retailers are having a harder time, for sure, but not everywhere. This depends on location and the kind of cityscape, like higher-density urban where lots of people live nearby, or big-box suburbia, where getting just a quart of milk is a 5- to 10-minute drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 sorry, just have to say this, I doubt you would have to haggle if you were ok paying MSRP.....snicker! However MSRP is absolutely ignored 99% of the time. If people paid the advertised price, some dealer would get the bright idea to advertise a lower price, and before long we'd be paying about the same, without all the hassle. :pig:Yeah, I know…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 oh and best buy is closing a large amount of stores as well... The problem that Best Buy has (and other similar stores) is that they are turning into a "Catalog Showroom" so to speak. People go into the stores to look and test the products and then head home and purchase them at a discount on-line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) ok, its always a hot topic, but its gotten me curious, and I may perhaps be opening a can of worms, but in actuality I am curious. How do you think customers shoould be sold cars...open discussion....should cars just be sold at MSRP? Be sensible here, but there may be some valid suggestions, after all, you guys are the consumers. My point of veiw may differ, but I will refrain from becoming too passionate, probably require sutures for my tongue...in actuality though, I bet theres some ideas that could possibly be utilized at a dealership level. Suggestions, I really don't have any. Wish the entire process was quicker/easier, but to get the best price I've found haggling the way to go. Some people don't like it, and I completely understand. I simply refuse to pay anywhere near MSRP, and typically request to see the inventory price and all dealer handling/destination fees. Some dealers are willing to play, others not so much. I typically work two or three dealers/sales people against each other to get the lowest price. And I laugh when I get up to leave and the sales person states "if you leave, this great deal is off the table", or something along those lines. Cause inevitably the next day I'm getting a call from them or the sales manager saying they can beat that price and can I come in to finalize a sale. Many times I'll also request they add 2-3 items, like a bed liner, bug guard, floor liners or other small ticket items to show how much they want the sale. So after all the haggling and we agree to a price (never more than $1K above inventory) for the vehicle, it's off the the finance dept to haggle with them over the price of extended warranties, GAP insurance and other misc items. And of course sign off on the details. All in all, I'd say with the dealer and salesperson I eventually purchase from, from beginning to end, I'll spend a good 7-10hrs, emailing, test driving, haggling and signing paperwork. But to me though, to save $8K-$10K or more off the price of the vehicle, the time spent is well worth it. Sales manager and sales person usually hates it, cause they invested so much time and get a lower return than an average joe customer who isn't going to haggle and invest the time into fighting the price. trade ins are always an issue, you can have two identical cars as far as color mileage and features, yet ones a little rough, dont think theres any way around that, kelly Blue gives an idea, but the number is but a guide and not set in stone. As for timeframes, understand completely....and i feel the same way about delivering a car...it can take FOREVER.... I totally understand the difficulties from the dealers standpoint on trade-ins. Each car is unique. Sure same make, model, miles and so on, but condition plays a huge part in value. And I do know many consumers simply see a KBB or NADA price and think that's what they'll get without taking into factors of condition and the market demand for that particular vehicle. As for me though, I take very well care of my vehicles. So while I may not always know the market value, I know they are in prime condition and I shouldn't be lowed balled on trade in price. Heck, I even tell the salesperson that we will conduct the trade in and purchase of the new vehicle as two separate transactions, but the condition of me purchasing the new vehicle is directly dependent upon the trade-in transaction. But I will review trade in prices through KBB and NADA. I'll review the price vehicles similar to mine are selling for on the market, both private and through dealers. And will go in with a set bottom price that I will accept. I haggle with them just as I do with the purchase. I've won some, and lost some. But for those I've lost and they wouldn't deal, I've simply taken my business to the next dealer and have gotten the prices I wanted. As you can tell, for salespeople, I am your nightmare customer. I know what I want, how much I'm willing to spend, how much I am willing to take for my trade, and want them to show me why they want my business. But in the long run, the dealer will make much more money as I typically bring my vehicles to the selling dealer for all service. That is until or unless their service dept has shown reason to go elsewhere. Isn't that where the dealer makes most his money though, in service and parts? Edited July 23, 2012 by V8-X 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 As you can tell, for salespeople, I am your nightmare customer. I know what I want, how much I'm willing to spend, how much I am willing to take for my trade, and want them to show me why they want my business. Based on that description, you are a very educated and prudent consumer. A good salesperson employed by a reputable, well run business would love to count someone like that as a customer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Well put V8-X. Stand by for the wrath of Deanh. I too am an informed car buyer, know what I want and how much I'm willing to pay, but when I tried to express that in the ...2013 C-Max thread, he tried to tear me a new one. I chose not to participate in this topic and haven't read most of the posts, mainly because I expected it to be a forum for Deanh to tell people that they were wrong and taking the food out of the mouths of hard working car salesman by not paying MSRP and trying to negotiate a better deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy Girl Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I took my 07 Edge to the dealer that actually solicited for my Edge. Got a very nice polite letter from the dealer where I service my Edge - looking for quality, dealer serviced used vehicles. They knew my Edge inside out. So, since I have A plan price access. the purchase price of a new Edge is not an issue. The trade value would be. So they lowballed me... I drove to TO and a dealer gave me $1200 more. They got my new car order. I wanted to buy my vehicle where I serviced it, but I wasn't going to give up $1200. I will still service my car there, they provide great service.. But a business transaction is just that....each side needs to be happy with the end result. They lost. Hopefully I get my new Edge in about 2 weeks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Just because you get more from another dealer for your trade-in doesn't mean you were getting "low-balled" per se. When a dealer takes a trade-in they're either wholesaling it at auction in which case they'll only give you black book or they may decide they can sell it on their lot and give you a little more, but it's still going to be wholesale. Now let's say your local dealer already has several similar Edges in stock or they just aren't selling many with your color and/or options........they have to offer you less or they risk losing money on the deal. Another dealer may be a totally different situation with inventory and sales history. Prices can also vary from week to week and month to month as the overall market and supply changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy Girl Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I agree with you in theory... I think my point was more about - getting the best deal you can. Its a business transaction. However, I still think they lowballed me... and I told them I would shop it around. They made no effort to keep my business after they asked for it. Mind you- my 07 edge - SEL plus, the best you could get in the first model year - doesn't have Sync, or any other of the cool features out there now. Its AWD and gets the stated MPG on the window sticker when I bought it. If gas prices spike again, its dead in the water at over 60,000 miles on the odometer. Runs well, brand new tires and brakes... well kept interior. And I got a good deal on the 2013 Edge - 0% financing, $1500 delivery allowance and $1000 off with Costco. That is better than employee pricing sale right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 And I got a good deal on the 2013 Edge - 0% financing, $1500 delivery allowance and $1000 off with Costco. That is better than employee pricing sale right now. Employee pricing? are you talking about X or A plan? I know for a fact that on avg A plan pricing alone on the Edge cuts off about 2500-3000K off the price, not factoring in $1500 rebate on it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy Girl Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Employee pricing? are you talking about X or A plan? I know for a fact that on avg A plan pricing alone on the Edge cuts off about 2500-3000K off the price, not factoring in $1500 rebate on it now. I have A plan pricing. My brother is at OAC. "A" plan is slightely better than the "employee pricing" out there now. Order was placed before end of May. So I got to bundle all the offers available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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