Transit Connect

[Harley Lover]

Galaxy shoulder with is up around 60-61" but still build on Mondeo's 112.2" wheelbase so not nearly long enough for a proper US minivan,

I think that duty will fall to a version of full sized Transit - maybe a Short Whelbase version and keep Galaxy as something smaller and more efficient..

 

Do you think it is possible to build a 'proper' size minivan off that chassis, or is it impossible? Or would it need to be off the D chassis, which I guess is dead man walking in the late decade? I dearly want Ford to step into this market - for selfish reasons, as I'm in that market and would really like to buy a Ford minivan that, as Austin stated, meets the criteria of the segment.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Harley Lover

[Deanh]

Austin, as usual your comments are spot on. I think this is a low level risk for Ford due to the commercial side, which you mentioned. It does make sense to offer the passenger product to see if a market will develop, since the incremental cost to Ford is low, given that the product is already available.

 

I agree with your point about "traditional" minivan buyers tending to avoid products that don't fit the category, which is why I hope that premierdrum's mention of the next gen Galaxy being under NA development means that it might become Ford's 'true' minvan segment competitor, featuring the attributes and features you mentioned as being a requirement for the segment.

everything depends on what they decide they should retail the unit for, over 30k the territory strts getting a tad more volatile....even now the Premium is above 24k and those are slow movers in comparison with the rest of the lineup, and at 24k a cheaper alternative, albeit slighty different, is the Scion TC, which from several non commercial customers comments, is a viable alternative and is sub 20k........( at least that is what i have been told ...

[LSchicago]

I heard this model will be built in the US? Maybe that was wrong. Better to be built in Spain than Turkey though.

Edited November 13, 2012 by LSchicago

[Edstock]

I heard this model will be built in the US? Maybe that was wrong. Better to be built in Spain than Turkey though.

 

Why? Otosan produces trucks for Ford for sale in Europe, including diesels. Seem to be reasonable quality.

[jpd80]

Do you think it is possible to build a 'proper' size minivan off that chassis, or is it impossible? Or would it need to be off the D chassis, which I guess is dead man walking in the late decade? I dearly want Ford to step into this market - for selfish reasons, as I'm in that market and would really like to buy a Ford minivan that, as Austin stated, meets the criteria of the segment.

CD4 can be used across different vehicle types, the cost of different floor pans versus the potential benefit probably make it

a very attractive prospect and let's face it we're only talking about frame extension lengthwise....

[BORG]

Wait, the new Transit Connect isn't being built in the US?

 

And for the record, I like the Transit Connect quite a bit for its intended purpose, but it's an ugly thing in a retail setting.

Edited November 14, 2012 by BORG

[Edstock]

Wait til we SEE one.

 

Case in point: Saw 2 new MKZ's today for the first time, at Kennedy Ford, a pearl white and a silver. Stunning — the pictures do NOT do the car justice, IMHO.

[rkisler]

CD4 can be used across different vehicle types, the cost of different floor pans versus the potential benefit probably make it

a very attractive prospect and let's face it we're only talking about frame extension lengthwise....

 

Hi JPD. Ummmm, maybe.

 

I've explained a couple of times how the CD3s (Edge) was massaged from the mother model, Mazda's Japanese MPV. In particular, attention was paid to moving the shocks and shock towers outboard to provide better cargo package. But that still wasn't enough to make the CD3s the basis for a competive minivan.

 

One of the toughest package challenges for a "US-type" minivan is the absolute requirement to put at least 2-3 full size 4'X8' sheets of plywood or drywall lying flat fully contained within the minivan with the liftgage closed. When you have all of the competitive models lined up, you can see what they have done to achieve this objective. First, the shocks are outboard and shock tower trim panels wide enough to contain the flat sheets. Consoles can inhibit the forward movement of the sheets, so in some models they are notched at the bottom and in others the console is removeable. That allows the sheets to slide forward to allow one to close the liftgatge.

 

I really don't know anything about the CD4 platform, but I would love to be in a room right now with all of the package drawings pinned around the walls and be in that discussion. I'm going to guess that the changes required are more than a stretch. Of course, nothing's impossible, it's just money. What I hope is that if Ford is doing a real minivan that they don't compromise on any of the necessary attributes. Otherwise you can end up in no-man's land with a forgettable, uncompetitive product.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Austin

[Deanh]

Wait, the new Transit Connect isn't being built in the US?

 

And for the record, I like the Transit Connect quite a bit for its intended purpose, but it's an ugly thing in a retail setting.

and right there is one of its main selling points...its acommercial with benefits.....theres no denying its intended purpose, all this does ( adding seats ) is expand its customer base....granted, the commercial versions will probably make up the meat of sales, these are but gravy....AND something that none of the competition are...rugged as hell.......and THAT appeals to some buyers....

[Deanh]

Wait, the new Transit Connect isn't being built in the US?

 

And for the record, I like the Transit Connect quite a bit for its intended purpose, but it's an ugly thing in a retail setting.

so, being able to actually include people with cargo is a dis advantage? or could it lead to more sales.....

[Pioneer]

For all those people that are surprised that it will not be produced in the United States, did you not read the article linked in the first post?

 

About halfway through the article, it states:

 

The vehicle will be manufactured in Valencia, Spain

[Deanh]

For all those people that are surprised that it will not be produced in the United States, did you not read the article linked in the first post?

 

About halfway through the article, it states:

Im surprized only due to the rumours I heard it was going to be produced here, ANYTHING is better than the system instilled right now, I can literally have a vin number and run a trace, I CANNOT find out a Transit Connects status until it LITERALLY lands on the lot....hopefully Spain will be better....but I would like to know Fords reasoning behind it not being manugfactured here, or is this just a ramification of the "One Ford " strategy,...manufacture them closer to where the biggest market for said vehicle is?....

[bzcat]

Well now we see one of several reasons why we aren't getting the Grand C-Max.

 

Color me very skeptical over the potential success of this vehicle.

 

Yes, I'm getting older; yes, my data are very dated at this point but I do have some relevant experience with Ford's last planned full-size minivan..

 

Over time, the formula for the "American Style" minivan has been well established. You can actually pretty well nail down all the attributes that all of the successful minivans have. In general, products that don't fit the mold are deemed to be uncompetitive and eventually have been forced from the market. In Ford's case, the Windstar was uncompetitive in several areas, wasn't updated, and was gone. In the case of the Villager/(Quest), a good product was forced from the market primarily because it was too small.

 

Ford is almost singlehandly trying to establish a smaller "people mover" category in the U.S. I think it works well for the C-Max which is functional, versitile, and efficient. I'm not so sure it works with this vehicle. There will be some families that might be interested in a smaller minivan with compromised function, but how many? And if anyone driving a competitive Honda, Toyota, or Chrysler minivan shops this vehicle, they likely are going to be very disappointed.

 

I have an appreciation for minivans, but looking back at the time when I owned them, I don't think this vehicle would ever have been in my consideration set. And I don't think it will be in consideration for customers who want something "funky" that hampsters might drive. Just my opinion.....

 

My comments don't have anything to do with the commercial side of the Transit Connect which I think was an excellent move on Ford's part.

 

That's all fine and good but you forgot the reason why Ford sells the wagon version in the US in the first place... they are all imported like this to avoid chicken tax!

 

So this is the make lemonade with lemon solution - it has really very little to do with the mainsteam minivan market. If Ford can increase the retail sale of Transit Connect (I'm using a short hand here... retail sale = wagon, fleet sale = van), it increases the profit margin of the program overall because they all arrive at port as wagons.

 

If you look at this vehicle in a vaccum, it makes less sense. But if you consider the fact that every Transit Connect arrives with seats and windows and Ford has to hire someone to toss out the seats knock out the glass, then it doesn't take long to figure out that the more wagon they sell, the better the financial statements look.

 

Now I'm assuming that Ford has looked at its sales data (they have 3 years worth of Transit Connect wagon sales data) and determined that they can increase the retail vs. fleet mix with minimal investment. The 1.6 turbo and more upscale interior will also likely to attract more retail sales.

Edited November 14, 2012 by bzcat

[twmalonehunter]

So when are they revealing the full size Transit, thought it was suppose today as well?

[Marginal Economist]

So when are they revealing the full size Transit, thought it was suppose today as well?

I think it is the LA Autoshow.

 

As for the TC wagon, sales goals are probably in the 7.5K-10K annual range. The incremental volume and profit are both pluses - and there is potential to ramp up if demand it there.

[BORG]

so, being able to actually include people with cargo is a dis advantage? or could it lead to more sales.....

 

You can add sales by doing lots of things, it doesn't mean it's worth doing. Hey, why not a Fusion wagon and hatchback? Lets throw that it in while we're at it, it has to add more sales right? Ford has to be doing this for a reason, to reach an unserviced customer. I am absolutely convinced that the Transit Connect Wagon won't find the customer they think they are going to fetch and they are going to waste money trying to communicate to that customer. It's such a hideously marginal (lets toss that in) attempt at a cheap people hauler. It's sloppy decision making and I have the same sort of befuddlement with this vehicle that I had with the Freestyle and Flex, a vehicle that makes sense to management but not consumers. I had similar hatred for the Grand C-Max which made NO sense for the US market, and it's clear Ford doesn't know what to do right here and they keep grasping at what they have available. This is not good enough and I don't want to see this cruft piling up at Ford. Do it right or stay out of it.

 

And yes, I know there isn't much at stake here, but I'm annoyed by the attempt.

Edited November 14, 2012 by BORG

[akirby]

You can add sales by doing lots of things, it doesn't mean it's worth doing. Hey, why not a Fusion wagon and hatchback? Lets throw that it in while we're at it, it has to add more sales right? Ford has to be doing this for a reason, to reach an unserviced customer. I am absolutely convinced that the Transit Connect Wagon won't find the customer they think they are going to fetch and they are going to waste money trying to communicate to that customer. It's such a hideously marginal (lets toss that in) attempt at a cheap people hauler. It's sloppy decision making and I have the same sort of befuddlement with this vehicle that I had with the Freestyle and Flex, a vehicle that makes sense to management but not consumers. I had similar hatred for the Grand C-Max which made NO sense for the US market, and it's clear Ford doesn't know what to do right here and they keep grasping at what they have available. This is not good enough and I don't want to see this cruft piling up at Ford. Do it right or stay out of it.

 

And yes, I know there isn't much at stake here, but I'm annoyed by the attempt.

 

Considering you don't have any of the market research that Ford does - what makes you think you know the market better than they do? Especially since this is obviously a market that you're not interested in.

 

Ford doesn't have the production capacity to do Fusion wagons or hatchbacks right now, so that's a moot point.

[BORG]

Considering you don't have any of the market research that Ford does - what makes you think you know the market better than they do? Especially since this is obviously a market that you're not interested in.

 

Ford doesn't have the production capacity to do Fusion wagons or hatchbacks right now, so that's a moot point.

 

You just accused me of not having the facts and then made up your own about the wagon/hatchback.

Edited November 14, 2012 by BORG

[RichardJensen]

Right now, HMO is running at full bore just to satisfy demand for sedans. It's a safe bet hatches and wagons can't be accommodated.

 

With Flat Rock online? Maybe. Now? No.

[Kris Kolman]

As much as Ford is getting good press on this prior to the LA show you won't be seeing Transit Connect Wagon commercials out there... Because that is not the point... It is simply a "side bushiness" for what is a commercial focused product. Let a few roll past the tear-out crew in Jersey for those in the passenger ferrying business, for example hotel shuttle service. But the wagon is better as a center piece of the new product roll-out... That is because its hard to get buzz for a bare bones stripped out van, what commercial customers buy prior to outfitting. The wagon is a more aligned to what most people drive everyday and thus easier to show off the improvements, don't have to see beyond the "fireplace face".

 

As for the upcoming CD4 MPV/Minivan strategy... I believe the current EUCD S-Max and Galaxy are essentially different top hats on the Mondeo wagon platform. The S-Max will likely remain on the same plan, as it sales have been fairly stable, but the Galaxy is a bit harder to predict. There is a fairly significant size differential between what is expected between a EU market and NA market minivan. The EU market is highly size sensitive and the only NA minivan sold there is the 202 in long and 77 in wide Chrysler/Lancia Voyager to mixed results. EU market minvans are typically ~10 in less long and ~3 in less wide. So for Ford while it would certainly possible for the Galaxy to grow to NA market dimensions it does so at the risk of sales troubles in its home markets. As such I think its better than even money that Ford will opt to keep the Galaxy internationally focused and sized due to a continuing lack of strength in the NA minvan market. Which means no luck for those wanting the Galaxy on these shores.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Kris Kolman

[theoldwizard]

Hybrid please for all the fleet buyers and people who want a nice new era minivan...

If you want a Hybrid, you will have to buy a C-Max, at least in the US. And there are still no plans for the Grand C-Max in the US ! (GASP ! That would be 2 vehicles with sliding doors !!)

[theoldwizard]

....but I would like to know Fords reasoning behind it not being manugfactured here, or is this just a ramification of the "One Ford " strategy,...manufacture them closer to where the biggest market for said vehicle is?....

I think you hit the ail right on the head !

 

If volume really takes off (obviously on the van, more so than the wagon), building it here is a possibility.

 

I would love one with a 2.0L EcoBoost and AWD like the Escape ! That would give it 3.500 lb towing capacity and might attract some Honda Element customers.

[FordBuyer]

I think it is the LA Autoshow.

 

As for the TC wagon, sales goals are probably in the 7.5K-10K annual range. The incremental volume and profit are both pluses - and there is potential to ramp up if demand it there.

 

I think it will do better than that in fleet sales alone. It will make a nice taxi/shuttle vehicle. I would say 10K in retail sales/year sounds about right. Maybe more. So I would say at least 25,000 sales/year including fleet and retail. Hopefully more. I think it's great that Ford is making it in Spain, a country that desperately needs jobs. I wish Ford would use more of its unused European capacity and export more to North America like a Fusion wagon. Uemployment for youth in Spain is over 50% and threatens that region with social unrest that could affect companies like Ford big time. I have a feeling next summer in Europe could resemble the Arab Spring of last year. So instead of laying everyone off Ford and helping to make the problem worse, export some more models here and keep some plants operating and workers on job.

[LSchicago]

I think it is the LA Autoshow.

 

As for the TC wagon, sales goals are probably in the 7.5K-10K annual range. The incremental volume and profit are both pluses - and there is potential to ramp up if demand it there.

 

If that's true, the redesign should sell 20K plus the first year in the passenger version. Very few people bought the current one as a passenger vehicle because it is so primitive. I would not buy the current vehicle, but I'd buy the new one over the caravan. I'm sure I'm not alone. Expect a big sales jump in the wagon.

[silvrsvt]

Throwing out some more facts here...the old TC sold nearly 32K units last year, an increase of 16% over the prior year. Right now as of October, its increased sales by another 13% over 2011...so the market for the TC is growning and the improved model with a better interior and better powertrains should keep the year to year growth rate up on this product.