Ford Considers Challenges of New (Actually Compact) F-100/Ranger Pickup Truck

[Hoser768]

I have both my '94 Ranger with 177k miles and my '87 Ranger with 81k miles. Even if they don't build a new one, I figure I have a quarter of a million miles of real compact truck goodness left with my current rides.

[RichardJensen]

This is a buyer driven market. The U.S. market is the most widely surveyed, most closely studied, most thoroughly analyzed market for almost every consumer product.

 

If a product disappears, it is not because *nobody* wanted it. It's because not enough people wanted it.

[xr7g428]

Richard I find your faith in Marketing people both inspiring and disappointing. In general, we wish we were that good, and we know we are not. All we can really do is tell you what people say, not what they think. And then we can add that to what people have done in the past, and predict that they will do something similar in the future.

Edited February 15, 2013 by xr7g428

[92LX302]

My point of view is, people stopped caring for them when their 'main' advantage, fuel economy, came nearly non-existent. I'd like to see what a 2wd 3.7 single cab short box STX does in city/highway compared to my 2wd 4.0 Ranger. When the compact truck market declined, the half-ton size were at their best. Low price fuel, SUV craze. Now, the situation is different, but everybody's gone. Heck, the Tacoma is nearly the size my father's '02 Lariat was!

[RichardJensen]

Richard I find your faith in Marketing people both inspiring and disappointing. In general, we wish we were that good, and we know we are not. All we can really do is tell you what people say, not what they think. And then we can add that to what people have done in the past, and predict that they will do something similar in the future.

 

Not just faith in marketing people---it's also a variant of the law of large numbers.

 

That every manufacturer in this segment has come to the same conclusion regarding the current form-factor, after performing a number of studies of the segment, is significant. Are some tests performed poorly? Yes. Are some done competently? Yes. Do people lie? Absolutely. But with every player in this segment reaching the same conclusion, I think you can put some stock in that conclusion.

 

At least enough stock to make investing hundreds of millions on the opposite conclusion a really dangerous undertaking.

[RichardJensen]

My point of view is, people stopped caring for them when their 'main' advantage, fuel economy, came nearly non-existent. I'd like to see what a 2wd 3.7 single cab short box STX does in city/highway compared to my 2wd 4.0 Ranger. When the compact truck market declined, the half-ton size were at their best. Low price fuel, SUV craze. Now, the situation is different, but everybody's gone. Heck, the Tacoma is nearly the size my father's '02 Lariat was!

 

But, see, there are few people that want a standard cab period, let alone a standard cab with limited towing and payload. If you can satisfy that limited number using a shared architecture, maybe you can make the math work.

 

But if you're looking at a unique chassis, which would be the case if you wanted a conventional truck form: separate cab/bed, body on frame, RWD/4x4, then you're just throwing dollars after dimes. It's a dang small market. If Ford execs have figured out a way to profitably sell to it, then good for them. But if not, well, I don't know what to tell you.

[RangerM]

The market isn't the same as it was. People who used to buy Rangers switched to other vehicles. The market went from 2M to 250K. The only way to get it back is to give people a game changer like they described.

Speaking for myself, I grew up and started a family. (I bought my Ranger when I was single)

 

Even though I still drive my '93 Ranger (w/ 195k) daily, I couldn't justify buying another Ranger as a primary vehicle. With a wife and (now 3) kids, I'd prefer a vehicle that can haul them when necessary, although I suppose if I've gone this long with one "family" vehicle, I should be asking why. The more I look at what's available in the market, the more I'd rather keep my Ranger. I don't like most of the full-size pickups, haven't really looked at any cars, and refuse to consider a cuv/suv. The new Mazda6 station wagon intrigues me, assuming they sell it here; along with Acura's whatever-they-call-it. I guess that makes me even more out-of-step with the market.

 

A new "compact" pickup is fine (although I'd question the driving dynamics of a FWD pickup), but it likely won't be for me unless my Ranger dies--and only as a 3rd vehicle.

[povertyknob]

People who bought Ranger went to other vehicle because smaller truck were neglected by most manufacturer compared to full-sized one, and thus offer no real advantage and less capability.>

 

Bring a real, all new compact truck to the market, which is not a 'compromise' like the old Ranger or others, with good fuel economy and plenty of configuration choice like an F150... And I'd bet the market will grow back.

I'd be delighted to replace my Sporttrac with a new T-6 Ranger if it were available. It's the perfect size for my needs with ideal power and off road capability. I hope Ford can make a business case for making it available here soon. In the meantime, they could make the F-150 I want a full foot shorter by offering the Super Cab with the 5 1/2 foot bed and short wheelbase.

[jcthorne]

You know what other vehicle we still saw rather regularly while the compact pickup was selling in large amounts?

 

The station wagon. Even Volvo doesn't sell one here anymore.

 

Yes they do. Everyone just calls them CUVs now. The Flex / MKT is a station wagon too.

[silvrsvt]

If a manufacturer would've put the effort and developpement that went in full-size trucks in the last 10 years, we'd have amazing little truck currently. I love my Ranger, the size, everything. Give me the same thing in a modern package, with today's fuel economy, power, styling and interior design, and I think more people would look back into compact truck

 

 

Theres a big issue here...the cost of development vs return on profit on a mid-sized or compact sized truck wasn't worth it.

 

I don't know about you, but take a look at cars from the 1980s vs today...I was reminded again today about how much bigger cars have gotten today vs what they where back then when I saw a CRX today and it was TINY! A Versa was behind it (ok C class car sold as a B car) it the Versa was huge in relation to it. I saw a 80s Civic hatchback next to a Honda Fit a few years ago, and the Fit looked huge next to it. The growth is due to crash regulations and consumer wants/needs. Apply this logic to compact trucks, and well you wind up with something like small F-150 with a Ranger. Another reason why fullsized pickups have grown so much is because of competition and lack of "top space" that is filled by Heavy Duty trucks that are mostly found in commercial usage.

 

Then all this talk about MPG...just looking at cars in relation to truck sizes, your not going to see a huge difference in MPG with downsizing to a Mid-sized truck...your not going to see 30 MPG and still be able to get 5K towing and 1K payload rating on it. Thats why its stupid to purse a midsize truck....your better off with over capable 3.7L F-150 that gets about 24 highway and then have a much more limited small pickup that can do Home Depot duty and get around 30 MPG with a 2L EB engine or smaller in it.

 

I think there is a lot of "mission creep" in peoples wants, when they really don't need it....because once you start saying I want this and this in a mid-sized pickup, well you should get a F-150 instead...its like saying I want a 16oz hammer but don't want a 2lb one, when the 2lb one still do the job.

[silvrsvt]

Yes they do. Everyone just calls them CUVs now. The Flex / MKT is a station wagon too.

 

Its all semantics....Volvo dropped their wagons because of upcoming EPA guide lines....it was easier/better to keep the CUVs because they where tested differently.

[twintornados]

Ya know something? Re-image what this would look like as made from a Transit Connect. It would be a hit in countries around the globe, can be built using an existing platform, and if you want to import it into United States, send it in without the front seat so it can come in as an incomplete vehicle, sliding in under the nose of the Chicken Tax. Front seat can be added at the dock. Or better yet, since Transit Connect is based on a version of Focus chassis, build it at MAP.

 

 

 

[papilgee4evaeva]

Yes they do. Everyone just calls them CUVs now. The Flex / MKT is a station wagon too.

Eh. I'd say a CUV is a new version of the MPV that the rest of the world has already had... and only got popular here once the styling became more trucklike.

[theoldwizard]

So if you use Chevy's formula for the new Colorado, the wheelbase of an F100 should be no more than 113" (2878mm) (90% of a 2 door F150 with 6.5' box). The Ranger is too long at 126" (3220mm) (same for 2 door and 4 door).

 

On top of that (if I understand the specs on the Ford Au site) it's max tow capacity (w/diesel engine) is 3500 lbs (reasonable). Max payload is 3360 lbs.

 

Clearly Ford needs a smaller and lighter Ranger, if they want to sell it in the US. And it had better get at least 20/26 city/highway !

Edited February 15, 2013 by theoldwizard

[Fgts]

I'd go for a Mustang/Falcon based platfrom since the new Mustang is smaller with a base 4-cly and i don't mean a Ranchero type truck . Just beef-up the rear area for loads and give it truck-like styling also a real 4wd system. Since it's car based it wont step on the everybody-should-have-one F150.

[silvrsvt]

the new Mustang is smaller with a base 4-cly and i don't mean a Ranchero type truck .

 

its not going to be that much smaller..maybe an inch or two (mostly done with slightly revised hardpoints), but there isn't going to be a whole sale shrinkage of the upcoming mustang.

[jpvbs]

So if you use Chevy's formula for the new Colorado, the wheelbase of an F100 should be no more than 113" (2878mm) (90% of a 2 door F150 with 6.5' box). The Ranger is too long at 126" (3220mm) (same for 2 door and 4 door).

 

On top of that (if I understand the specs on the Ford Au site) it's max tow capacity (w/diesel engine) is 3500 lbs (reasonable).

 

The AU Ranger tow rating is 3500kgs (7700lbs) not pounds.

[FordBuyer]

With all the rumors for last few years of a Ranger replacement, I would bet there is a small team somewhere in Dearborn working on a possible replacement waiting to be green lighted by the bean counters. Tacoma sales are up, and if new GM version sells well and segment shows some life as gas prices surge ever closer to $5/gallon, the small pickup segment could become viable again to more than just a few players. After all, the middle class in this country is fighting more and more to keep its head above water, and the age of oversized everything is not sustainable for much longer.

[akirby]

With all the rumors for last few years of a Ranger replacement, I would bet there is a small team somewhere in Dearborn working on a possible replacement waiting to be green lighted by the bean counters. Tacoma sales are up, and if new GM version sells well and segment shows some life as gas prices surge ever closer to $5/gallon, the small pickup segment could become viable again to more than just a few players. After all, the middle class in this country is fighting more and more to keep its head above water, and the age of oversized everything is not sustainable for much longer.

 

Did you not read the quote from Ford? 1000 lb payload, 3000 lb towing, super fuel economy. That's the ticket and it's not a new Ranger.

[mackinaw]

If they make it, it just may be called a Ranger (why not? great name recognition), but it will bear no resemblance to the Ranger of yesteryear.

 

A truly interesting vehicle, if they choose to make it.

[BORG]

I guess it depends on how well GM does with its new trucks. GM isn't doing anything terribly innovative here, it would be like Ford bringing the T9 Ranger over and calling it a day. Ford is absolutely convinced the market isn't there for the T9 or is competitive kin, and they tend to be smarter about these things than any other carmaker. So I think Ford's answer will come in unexpectedly innovative ways.

Edited February 15, 2013 by BORG

[rtshinn]

Give me a PHEV light truck that has an electric range of 25 miles, and I'd pay a nice premium for it, because I'd go down to one vehicle.

[Kris Kolman]

Sigh... Here we go again... Same old arguments...

 

T6 Ranger is too big, even though T6 and F150 while when similarly equipped has same size difference between a Focus and a Taurus

F150 V6 XL 2x4 Regcab is the same price and fuel economy as a T6 Ranger, ignoring the 4x4 and Supercrew equipment difference

Bigger is better will rules, which seems contrary to the trends in every other vehicle segment where capability vs size is being weighted

4-cylinder Ecoboost truck won't ever be accepted, which seems in conflict with everything Ford has pushed on Escape and Fusion

South America/Africa need replacements for their subcompact trucks without understanding that those markets have evolved beyond them

 

As for the push for people wanting a return to the 1980 sized simplistic truck my concern is that the vast majority of people own a single vehicle. As such the truck "living space" needs to be comparable to the compact SUVs like the Escape. This is what I've come to believe what most smaller truck buyers are being cross-shopping against. It seems the rise in compact SUVs was the biggest impact to small truck sales. During the heydays of the 80's and early 90's smaller trucks thrived against large trucks. But as the first generation rough small SUVs (Cherokee, Bronco II, etc) were replaced by more modern versions starting with the RAV4 small truck buyers changed their buying habits. Compact SUVs became less crude and more comfortable, while small trucks remained as is. And one survived while the other withered on the vine... That isn't a coincidence.

[mackinaw]

Kris, the difference this time is that Doug Scott, Ford Truck Marketing Manager, is the person who started this conversation. Read his comments in post #1.

[jpd80]

I still think that a next gen Bantam pick up based on the Fiesta could be built economically in Mexico

and delivered to the USA for a price that would give the mid sized truck market competition from below.

You could stick a Ford "Courier" name tag on it and get some recognition...

 

If indeed Ford's research is to be believed, a lot of former Ranger buyers purchased the truck because

of low purchase price, it was economical and had utility to carry things. Maybe a Trucklet isn't a bad idea.

and would certainly give Toyota and GM something to think about...

Edited February 15, 2013 by jpd80